When two papers go to war: At one and the same... - Thyroid UK

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When two papers go to war

helvella profile image
helvellaAdministrator
14 Replies

At one and the same time we see two papers. First, the one discussed in this very recent post here:

A new paper provoking strong negative responses on Twitter.

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu....

Second, this one which has slipped behind the endocrinology wall into cardiology.

Thy and mighty: the importance of T3 thyroid hormone on dyadic structure and function in cardiac health and disease

Cardiac dyads facilitate efficient calcium (Ca?+)-induced Ca* release and thus excitation-contraction (EC) coupling in the heart. Although transverse (t)-tubules provide the structural basis for dyad formation by ensuring close apposition of sarcolemmal L-type Ca? * channels (LTCCs) and ryanodine receptors (RyRs) of the sarcoplasmic reticulum (SR) Ca+store, nanoscale organization of these Ca?* channels within dyads is also of major importance. Several proteins have been identified as having key roles in dyadic regulation, and there is increasing evidence that thyroid hormones (TH), particularly bioactive triiodothyronine (T3), are critical modulators of these proteins (1, 2). Recently in this journal, Charest et al. (3) highlighted the importance of TH on RyR clustering and the association between RyRs and the dyad-spanning protein junctophilin-2 (JPH2). They demonstrated that TH deficiency results in fewer, less closely spaced RyR clusters that have fewer colocalizations with LTCCs and JPH2; and that supplementation with T3 ameliorates these effects. Considering its role in t-tubule maturation (4), this emphasizes the significance of TH in both macro- and nanoscale dyadic organization, and the potential compounding effects of abnormal TH levels on dyadic dysfunction.

Link shows rest of first page - as a poor quality image that is barely readable. And the rest is behind a paywall.

journals.physiology.org/doi...

One saying liothyronine is over-prescribed and largely not justified. In the other that T3 supplementation works! Do you think the authors of the first have any idea that the second exists?

With apologies to Frankie:

When two papers go to war

A point is all that you can score

Score no more! Score no more!

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helvella profile image
helvella
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14 Replies
tattybogle profile image
tattybogle

even if they are aware , they might not have understood it ... it's got a lot of long words in .

waveylines profile image
waveylines in reply totattybogle

😫😂 well said Tattybogle!

Judithdalston profile image
Judithdalston in reply totattybogle

Lost me on the first sentence, no the title….Long Covid brain fog makes it impossible to look up every alternate word…what are ‘dryads’? I understood the T3 ameliorates bit!

helvella profile image
helvellaAdministrator in reply toJudithdalston

Within the muscle tissue of animals and humans, contraction and relaxation of the muscle cells (myocytes) is a highly regulated and rhythmic process. In cardiomyocytes, or cardiac muscle cells, muscular contraction takes place due to movement at a structure referred to as the diad, sometimes spelled "dyad."

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diad

Judithdalston profile image
Judithdalston in reply tohelvella

Yes even autocorrect on iPad had changed it to dryads…I know about fairies better than human body seemingly!

tattybogle profile image
tattybogle in reply toJudithdalston

me to, it said dyads not dryads, but i have not the foggiest idea what a dyad is .

EMBoy profile image
EMBoy in reply totattybogle

In cardiac muscle cells, there are two important tubular systems - the sarcoplasmic reticulum (SR) and the transverse tubular system (t-system, t-tubules).

The function of the SR is to transport various substances, particularly calcium ions around the cell. The t-system is a continuation of the outer cell membrane into the interior of the cell.

At certain places within the cell, elements of the SR and t-system come very close together, and when viewed with an electron microscope, they are seen as two circular structures in a figure 8 configuration. This close apposition of the two systems is known as a dyad. In skeletal muscle, a similar situation exists, but there are two elements of the SR associated with one element of the t-system. These are known as triads.

When a muscle cell contracts, an "electrical" signal passes along the cell membrane and down the t-tubules, and when it reaches a dyad (or triad), it stimulates the SR to release calcium ions into the cytoplasm (known as sarcoplasm in muscle cells). The calcium ions then initiate the contraction of the cell.

I hope this doesn't confuse people.

helvella profile image
helvellaAdministrator in reply toEMBoy

That is appreciated. :-)

arTistapple profile image
arTistapple

Thank you yet again for finding this paper helvella. This is so ‘heartening’ for me.

Since endocrinology are not inclined to help, I am now passing all these ‘heart’ papers to my cardiologist. Ever so slight interest has been shown Perhaps not enough (for me) but you never know!

waveylines profile image
waveylines in reply toarTistapple

My EP said when I was recovering from the aftermath of the eternal ever lasting Amiodarone drug......that my heart would settle once it got more T3. My Endo didn't agree.......however EP was right. With more increases it is indeed starting to settle......still not quite back to where I was but the train is a coming! Follow the real science not pseudo junk! That's my motto.

Cardiologist and Epiphysiogists (EP) knowq a lot about thyroid hormones.....

arTistapple profile image
arTistapple in reply towaveylines

Certain prominent endocrinologists don’t care about or read other papers. Their minds are closed. Surely.

Unfortunately my cardiologist looks genuinely non-plussed when we discuss thyroid hormones. She was willing to ‘write’ to my endocrinologist, as she was also visibly surprised that the endo would not treat. It’s a big cauldron of no-one knows, or is willing to treat- particularly endocrinology! Cardiology will do their ‘thing’ but endocrinology won’t stand up and be counted. In the face of the options, T3 seems by far the least dangerous route - there is enough evidence to at least give it a go. No! Major surgery is preferred. It’s insane. If only they had some idea of what they are doing!

Nonsense like the other paper  helvella has put up just hours ago, is only going to cloud the already very murky goings on.

I just can’t comprehend the ‘cherry picking’ which allows Petros Perros to keep pushing his ‘questionable’ theories forward. We have known for generations that poor (or absent) thyroid treatment leads right to here - heart issues. Patients at this point are clearly not suffering ‘somatoform’. The most up to date investigatory testing procedures prove the state of one’s heart (unless of course that is utterly bogus). How are his ‘pseudo scientific’ theories able to hold such sway?

Where women suffer medical misogyny in heart/thyroid issues, men will also experience it. Men may get better acknowledgment for their heart issues but if their heart issues are due to thyroid, you can be sure their treatment will be no better. If anyone can counter this, I would like to know who their endocrinologist or cardiologist is -I desperately need to know.

In the muddled but fixed opinions of the likes of the other paper to which  helvella refers, there is no evidence that things are moving in our direction.

TSH110 profile image
TSH110

None whatsoever, their publications are an abomination to humankind. They are morons quite frankly and fifth rate rubbish - garbage in and garbage out sums them up perfectly

BenLabrador profile image
BenLabrador

Thank you Helvella for bringing this out into the open.

radd profile image
radd

🎶. .. working for the black gas ... 🎶

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