I've been on an upward trajectory this year, digestion has been much more robust too... thought I might re-visit tackling my histamine avoidance to hopefully be able to add more things back into my diet
I've tried in the past with DAO/ digestive enzymes without much success so have just been avoiding the trigger foods
Bit hesitant... if it goes badly it's like I've been poisoned and causes nausea and a monster, wired, migraine that lasts a few days 🤢
I notice Ancestral Supplements Bovine Kidney are on offer at the moment and wondered if it was worth a trial?? Any takers...
Equally if you think I'm better off not dabbling and just living with it I'm up for that option too 😁
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I would be tempted to allow more healing to take place with your thyroid regime. Why? Because according to some ‘old timers’ on the Forum, once the sweet spot is found, healing continues for a good period of time. As I get more used to what I hear on the Forum, unfortunately there are rather less people, it seems to me than I would like, who actually talk about being what they would consider, ‘well’. At first it’s ‘the magic bullet’ stories which are attractive (reasonably enough) but many still seem to have to live with restrictions.
However the ‘well’ people may move on, not needing the Forum as much as before. Getting on with their lives! At first we are keen to move on fast. This can precipitate mistakes. However I take the view, I learn a lot from those mistakes too.
For me, having been ill for so long, I can’t tell what is perhaps down to the normal aging process or the hypothyroidism - more confusing because I definitely have not reached anything like a ‘sweet spot’.
These things you want to tackle will still be there, in say three months. Enjoy your trajectory for a while.
No problem asking for more knowledge (like you just have) but you could turn it all over in your mind for a bit, before embarking on any trying and testing,
Must admit I thought I’d be a perfect candidate for a low histamine diet & DAO to improve but after spending quite a lot & giving up favourite foods, no notiveable improvement really. It’s very confusing though with so many suggested solutions to digestive problems etc. How to know which way to turn? Hope it helps if you try it. Lots of label reading again. ☹️
Thanks both 🤗 arTistapple Hmm... yes I'm wondering whether to just stick with what works for me, in all honesty my intolerances are more of an issue for other people than they are for me as I'm seen as hard to accommodate🤷♀️... I'm happy sticking with a 'safe' diet without the expense of more supplements and fear of rocking the boat 🫤
I looked at those kidney supps a long time ago, but was put off by the price and need to take six capsules a day. Also, some not great reviews on Amazon. If it was a case of taking them for a shortish period of time and histamine intolerance would be magically and permanently cured, I'd re-consider. But I'm not aware of any convincing evidence on that.
I'm thinking that's the conclusion I have come too in the past... genetically I'm supposedly ok with DAO production but something has obviously knocked that out of whack, much as it has with my dairy intolerance since starting on Levo....
Yeah, I'll save my money and continue to accept my quirks 🙂
My theory is that it could well be the unnatural delivery of exogenous thyroid hormone directly into the digestive system that triggered the histamine problem. Histamine is an ongoing issue for me, regardless of which thyroid meds I take (i.e. whether it's NDT, levo and/or lio, nothing improves). 😞
Just to say I’m having this problem too! Any kind of thyroid meds sends my histamine levels through the roof to the point I can’t function and am so uncomfortable and sore (itchy inflamed skin and eyes!) I’ve been trying antihistamines but they’re not doing it
Hi GreenTealSeal_ , when I first started on Levothyroxine (1997) I was told to take mine directly after breakfast and tea. This, I did, for quite a few years, until things went wrong in 2010. All that time I was quite well., with no histamine problems at all.
That’s interesting to hear. Were you still taking levo after food when things changed in 2010? Perhaps it was a shift in other hormones that caused the histamine issue?🤔
As my LD Son suffered at the same time and we both had Levothyroxine changed at the same time, I don't think it was anything to do with change of timing of Levothyroxine. This, I changed before 2010 and the change did not seem to make any difference to my blood levels. I think it was just the fact that it was made by a different company .
As I see it, the problem with taking levo with food, is the uncertainty of how much you may or may not absorb, according to the food you take it with. That's why we're advised to take it on an empty stomach, with a good time interval before eating.
The only way to achieve any sort of absorption consistency would be to take it with exactly the same food, in the same amount, every time. That in itself could be difficult, and make things particularly tricky if/when you're away from home.
I’m still a big believer in large amounts of Vit C and quercetin, and somewhere on your upwards trajectory you might find your histamine intolerance decreases or diminishes completely.
Mine started slowly with sneezing in the night after white wine and Chinese takeaway years ago. Then progressed to constant postnasal drip and certain foods making me feel wired and weird. Now it’s back to the 'white wine and chinese takeaway stage' which I now mainly avoid anyway.
I have no experience of kidney glandulars. I take NDT but the thought of taking other glandular organ makes me feel sick. I once tried some hypothalamus 🧠 suggested by a practitioner - cost a fortune and only lasted a few days before it went in the bin.
Sorry, misleading as I meant high doses of Vit C (up to 3g daily), and normal supplemented doses of quercetin.
It is the flavonoids that risk interfering with thyroid function but taken in usual amounts I found quercetin fine. I eat a diet high in flavonoids anyway for the antioxidant effects as have iron-overload.
If you are interested there used to be available several Vit C and quercetin combos sups but I haven't taken them for a couple of years as my histamine levels are so much more controlled now.
Hmm... I still do high dose Vit C but quercetin got shelved at some point... think I gave it to the kids when they were unwell and didn't replace 🤔 might add that back in and then risk an avocado or maybe an olive 🙃
Exactly! MSG and sulphites are deadly to me . Wired so no sleep, drippy nose and post nasal drip for several days/weeks. Maybe a slight cough, fatigue and feeling just dreadful ☹️. Sooo not worth it.
'Did you find NDT was better for you than synthetics in regard to histamine reactions?'
I can't remember a significant difference but I never had issues with any Levothyroxine brands as long as it was accompanied with a little T3 to enable enough conversion. My issues regarding meds were related to poor adrenal health intolerant of the T3 'bump' which enforced me to initially dose 3 times a day. Nowadays NDT allows me to dose just once a day and also medicate a lower amount of T3, but I suspect I would now be much more tolerant of synthetics should I ever try them again.
The elevated histamine has always been a low grade issue even before medicating thyroid meds and appears mainly food instigated. At one point I felt I couldn't eat anything without some sort of reaction and I was getting weird stuff happening like a sudden allergy to my watch strap, etc. My consultant termed it as low grade MCAS and any detox I've done regarding heavy metals and mould have been heavily supported to keep the immune system in a good direction. Now if I don't eat crap food or drink white wine I'm fine.
Plentiful research shows quercetin to reduce the release of excess histamine from mast cells, and help the cells become less sensitive to any further release of inflammatory chemicals. Once the vicious circle is broken things can repair. It is common for Hashi sufferers to experience extreme reactions because their immune system is already compromised. Hence I'm always banging on about reducing thyroids antibodies and controlling chronic inflammation.
Thank you it’s so interesting to hear your experience. I’m pleased you’re doing better with it all now.
Yes I can’t quote remember if my histamine issues were better on combo t4/t3 perhaps it’s time for a small trial to remind myself.
But before then I’m definitely going to get onto quercetin! I heard micronised progesterone can also be great at calming mast cells and histamine so hoping that helps me a bit too!
'I’m still a big believer in large amounts of Vit C and quercetin'
Quercetin did nothing for me. And I'm intolerant of vitamin c, which is ascorbic acid. Can't even eat fresh oranges or drink more than a couple of mouthfuls of fresh orange juice. (Citrus intolerance).
Sadly not, I've given up trying to 'cure it', as nothing seems to work in the long term. So just continue with avoidance of all the foods that trigger symptoms, or at best, trying not to fill the bucket too high 😧
I’m sure I read somewhere that there are a few forms of vit C that are not ascorbic acid… they’re more expensive I believe but maybe worth a shot! May be worth a google.
You probs already know all this but I thought I’d share a few things I’ve learnt so far…
Glutamine is apparently a good supp. for histamine and also Optibac probiotics (I’ve just started both)
Also vit C apparently slow/extended release is good for HIT.
Also I’m sure you already know that estrogen can increase histamine release and progesterone can calm this and upregulate DAO production. So maybe HRT needs adjusting?
I have found Utrogestan has calmed the histamine effects for me a bit but it’s all still early days for me and obvs I’m on HRT for slight different reasons!
Please do share anything you have success with and I hope you can have more variety in your diet soon! 💚
Ah no it sounds like you have a good plan/knowledge already!
I think I take 500mg glutamine but think you can take 1000mg max a day (defo worth a google check!)
I know there’s a lot online at the moment about ‘estrogen dominance’ and how that can exacerbate histamine issues. There are websites where you can work out your Estrogen and progesterone ratio but tbh I’m not even sure how useful that would be.
Tbh I’m v jealous of your estrogen levels…the highest mine have ever been are 300 and I’m only 33 🙃
Well, I'm not so sure 🫠my oestradiol and testosterone levels have risen this time which is likely the DHEA kicking in, I've been taking for the last 15 months
This ratio thing rings a bell having previously been at 25 so last time I tweaked my progesterone dose up to around 25nmol/l with my oestradiol 290pmol/l giving a ratio of 102. I didn't feel any different and then I read some more scare stories about progesterone and dropped back.... I can get the ratio up by adding 100mg utrogestan vaginally once a week which at least avoids the liver along with my nightly 100mg orally 🤷♀️
The usual breast cancer worries, but when you dig into it it's more about progestin (synthetic progesterone) rather than the body identical micronized utrogestan so it has a big headline but when you get to the conclusion it maybe has a 1% higher risk factor and all rather inconclusive.... some might call it click bait 😕
I've often wondered if there's a connection between histamine issues and sulphite sensitivity? As the symptoms you describe could also be attributed to sulphite intolerance? Sugar alcohols are another issue for me.
From my own experience some years back I managed to 'overdose' myself with sulphites. It was only in retrospect that I worked out what the problem was. I was very unwell, it had a terrible effect on my digestion (I was unable to control my bowels!😐) and a headache that lasted for three days. Lost a lot of weight as I was too frightened to eat anything for some time other than apples and organic lentils.
I mostly practice avoidance but sometimes it is difficult. Though I usually know when I've been 'sulphited' as I get a strange feeling of pressure across the bridge of my nose or may get a bit wheezy the next day even though I don't have asthma.
Not sure if this will help but Molybdenum supplements have been mentioned to me; I've not explored that option or even taken them myself but it may take you down another rabbit hole of exploration. You may have already researched it yourself?
I'm going to continue practicing avoidance for the time being at least. 😊
Thanks for reminding me about Molybdenum Hedgeree . I was told about it just before I did a Candida cleanse. Have just googled it and it does seem to be good for a lot of things. Sorry, can't do links.
Funny you mention molybdenum as I have certainly used that, tale end of last year through to middle of this year as the empty BioCare bottle remains as a reminder, so perhaps quercetin and molybdenum have played their roles in my general digestive improvement and I just haven't tested out the size of my histamine bucket recently? Though thinking about sulphur I often have stir fries laced with soya sauce... sushi created the highest spike in my blood sugar when testing!
Certainly white wine has always curled me up but I've not drunk for years, cider was my tipple which is higher in sulphites and histamine though this would have been pre levo
Symptoms of sulfite allergy or sensitivity include:
Wheezing.
Shortness of breath (dyspnea).
Chest tightness.
Coughing.
Sneezing.
Stuffy or runny nose.
Hives.
I wouldn't say I suffer from any of these... I can cope with a medicinal Cointreau but not Gin 🤮
I tend to have digestive issues from sulphites, nausea, bad tum and headaches that lasts for a few days; not really respiratory. Generally feel rather unwell and jaded.
I'm thinking I should have more in the cupboard ready as I've not taken any for 3 months and just having a read up on where it is stored it seems to have a half life of several weeks 😬
The paper below seems quite interesting. But, because the paper itself is over five years old, also look down at papers which have cited it.
Food Intolerances.
Abstract
Food intolerances are estimated to affect up to 20% of the population but complete understanding of diagnosis and management is complicated, given presentation and non-immunological mechanisms associated vary greatly. This review aims to provide a scientific update on common food intolerances resulting in gastrointestinal and/or extra-intestinal symptoms. FODMAP sensitivity has strong evidence supporting its mechanisms of increased osmotic activity and fermentation with the resulting distention leading to symptoms in those with visceral hypersensitivity. For many of the other food intolerances reviewed including non-coeliac gluten/wheat sensitivity, food additives and bioactive food chemicals, the findings show that there is a shortage of reproducible well-designed double-blind, placebo-controlled studies, making understanding of the mechanisms, diagnosis and management difficult. Enzyme deficiencies have been proposed to result in other food sensitivities including low amine oxidase activity resulting in histamine intolerance and sucrase-isomaltase deficiency resulting in reduced tolerance to sugars and starch. Lack of reliable diagnostic biomarkers for all food intolerances result in an inability to target specific foods in the individual. As such, a trial-and-error approach is used, whereby suspected food constituents are reduced for a short-period and then re-challenged to assess response. Future studies should aim to identify biomarkers to predict response to dietary therapies.
I’m dealing with MCAS as well as hashis and SIBO/IMO, and I am sure they’re all interconnected. The most helpful thing I’ve found so far as a mast cell stabiliser is fresh pomegranate - not bottled juice, but the fresh fruit, and they’re delicious. (I don’t eat the seeds though). There’s also a supplement POMx, but I haven’t tried that yet. There’s been research on it lowering histamine and reducing cancer cells.
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