Help/advice, under/over medicated??: Hi everyone... - Thyroid UK

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Help/advice, under/over medicated??

Ninjacaz profile image
7 Replies

Hi everyone, looking for some advice, I’m very confused, and getting desperate. Sorry this is long.

Bloods 2 weeks ago, taking 100 mcg T4 and 20-25 mcg T3 (10x2) (24 hrs since last T4, ~15 hrs since T3) —

T4: 12 (11–24). T3: 4.3 (3.6–6.5). TSH: fully suppressed. Has been for years.

Little back story: used to take a lot more T3 than this (50), same dose for 7 years, but it never had much effect on me. Back in July I suddenly started getting really bad palpitations, it was like all the T3 in my system suddenly started working out of nowhere. Came off my meds almost completely to recover and worked slowly up to 100 mcg T4 & 20 mcg T3.

Fast forward to 4 weeks ago. Started feeling ill (stomach cramps, nausea, fatigue). Just not right.

2 weeks ago the fatigue became extreme (starting day of blood test). Sleeping 10 hrs an night and not being able to stay awake in the day, literally passing out for 3/4 hrs a day. Too exhausted to function. Pulse normal (70–80 bpm), temp normal for me (36.2). Falling asleep seemed to happen 2–3 hours after taking meds. Getting chills coinciding with fatigue.

Dr suggested I’m over-medicated (they panic about the TSH, of course). Willing to try, I reduced my meds a little.

Started by reducing T3 down to 12.5 mcg. This gave me heart palpitations, fluttering, feeling like my heart was skipping a beat. Not extreme, but enough to be uncomfortable. Still fatigued.

I figured that if I’m over-medicated I’ve got too much T4 in storage, and it’s easier to microdose with T3 if I go too low. So instead, I reduced my T4 to 75 and then 50mcg, (with 20 mcg T3).

Now I can’t sleep at night. No matter how tired, or when I go to bed, my heart is beating too fast (85–90 bpm). ‘Tired but wired’, I believe it’s called. I’m also getting chills at the same time as the palps, but my body temp is 36.6 under my duvets. Taking my T4 in the middle of the night seemed to calm my heart a bit last night but I still couldn’t sleep.

I feel like I’m hyper and hypo at the same time. I got chills when I was super fatigued with normal heart rate, now getting chills with high heart rate.

Back in July my heart rate correlated directly with my medication dose. Stopping meds made my heart slow way down, and when I started taking them again I increased slowly till my resting bpm was 75–80. Now, it’s all over the place. Sometimes it seems like my heart speeds up a little after taking T3, sometimes it seems to slow down.

Any advice is welcome, I haven’t slept in days.

Can someone maybe remind me how adrenals/cortisol interact with T3? I’m wondering if that’s a factor.

(Additional info: 34 yrs, female. I’m on low dose HRT. From bloods tested 2 weeks ago: FBC (normal), B12 (bit high), folate (bit high), ferritin (low end of normal), electrolytes (normal), estradiol & gonadotrophins (normal). And I have low stomach acid, think that’s a thing?).

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7 Replies
Ninjacaz profile image
Ninjacaz

Weirdly, after no sleep, my temp is currently 36.6 (higher than I’ve ever been able to get it with T3). Heart normal at 72 bpm. Why can’t this happen at night????

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator

How low is ferritin

Any Vitamin D result

How long had you been on 100mcg Levo and 20mcg T3 ……did you split T3 day before test ….ideally 10mcg waking and 5mcg mid afternoon and 5mcg approx 8-12 hours before test

Do you always get same brand levothyroxine at each prescription

Same brand of T3

Results suggest you needed to INCREASE Levo

Ninjacaz profile image
Ninjacaz in reply toSlowDragon

Thanks for your reply.

Ferritin is 39 (10–291).

They didn’t test vit D, think it’s one you have to specifically request? Will ask.

Been on 100mcg levo & 20mcg T3 since July. Same brand for both.

100mcg levo & 10mcg T3 24 hrs before test, 10 mcg T3 15 hrs before test. So, not perfect, I should have checked protocol.

I think I must be under-medicated now at least. I think the palps at night must be because it’s been a long time since my last dose (I normally take my T4 and half my T3 dose 2 hrs before I get up in the morning, and the other half of my T3 8hrs later).

But why the extreme exhaustion initially, on 100mcg T4 and 20mcg T3? That’s equivalent to 180mcg T4, which seems high? Unless it’s not absorbing/binding properly…

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator in reply toNinjacaz

Ferritin is borderline deficient

So you need to work hard on improving

Being anaemic will cause exhaustion too

cks.nice.org.uk/topics/anae...

Serum ferritin level is the biochemical test, which most reliably correlates with relative total body iron stores. In all people, a serum ferritin level of less than 30 micrograms/L confirms the diagnosis of iron deficiency

Never supplement iron without doing full iron panel test for anaemia first and retest 3-4 times a year if self supplementing.

It’s possible to have low ferritin but high iron

Test early morning, only water to drink between waking and test. Avoid high iron rich dinner night before test

If taking any iron supplements stop 5-7 days before testing

Medichecks iron panel test

medichecks.com/products/iro...

Look at increasing iron rich foods in diet

Eating iron rich foods like liver or liver pate once a week plus other red meat, pumpkin seeds and dark chocolate, plus daily orange juice or other vitamin C rich drink can help improve iron absorption

List of iron rich foods

dailyiron.net

Links about iron and ferritin

irondisorders.org/too-littl...

davidg170.sg-host.com/wp-co...

Great in-depth article on low ferritin

oatext.com/iron-deficiency-...

drhedberg.com/ferritin-hypo...

This is interesting because I have noticed that many patients with Hashimoto’s disease and hypothyroidism, start to feel worse when their ferritin drops below 80 and usually there is hair loss when it drops below 50.

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

Posts discussing Three Arrows as very effective supplement

Great replies from @FallingInReverse

re ferritin and Three arrows

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu......

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

Great reply by @fallinginreverse

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

Ferrodyn supplement

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

Iron patches

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

Thyroid disease is as much about optimising vitamins as thyroid hormones

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

restartmed.com/hypothyroidi...

Post discussing just how long it can take to raise low ferritin

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

Iron and thyroid link

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

Posts discussing why important to do full iron panel test

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

Good iron but low ferritin

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

Chicken livers if iron is good, but ferritin low

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

Shellfish and Mussels are excellent source of iron

healthline.com/nutrition/he...

Iron deficiency without anaemia

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

Ferritin over 100 to alleviate symptoms

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

Great research article discussing similar…..ferritin over 100 often necessary

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

Low Iron implicated in hypothyroidism

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

Really interesting talk on YouTube, link in reply by Humanbean discussing both iron deficiency and towards end how inflammation can also be an issue

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

Inflammation affecting ferritin

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

Updated reference ranges for top of ferritin range depending upon age

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

Thank you for your incredible patience while you have been awaiting the outcome of our ferritin reference range review. We conducted this with Inuvi lab, which has now changed the reference ranges to the following:

Females 18 ≤ age < 40. 30 to 180

Females 40 ≤ age < 50. 30 to 207

Females 50 ≤ age < 60. 30 to 264l

Females Age ≥ 60. 30 to 332

Males 18 ≤ age < 40 30 to 442

Males Age ≥ 40 30 to 518

The lower limits of 30 are by the NICE threshold of <30 for iron deficiency. Our review of Medichecks data has determined the upper limits. This retrospective study used a large dataset of blood test results from 25,425 healthy participants aged 18 to 97 over seven years. This is the most extensive study on ferritin reference ranges, and we hope to achieve journal publication so that these ranges can be applied more widely.

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator in reply toNinjacaz

how much T3 did you start on

Starting on too high a dose too soon not recommended

We recommend starting on 2.5mcg twice a day….or 5mcg once day initially

Only increasing SLOWLY over several months

Which brand levothyroxine and T3?

How much levothyroxine were you taking BEFORE T3 was added

What were thyroid results when on JUST Levo

How much vitamin D are you taking

When was vitamin D last tested

Test twice yearly when supplementing

Can test via NHS private testing service

vitamindtest.org.uk

aim to maintain at least over 80nmol

Buddy195 profile image
Buddy195Administrator

I get palpitations etc when both under and over medicated. Your FT4 is very low in the range, so no way are you over medicated. Like  SlowDragon suggests, you will certainly benefit from an increase, not a decrease in thyroid medication. The only reason your GP is concerned, is that your TSH is suppressed, but many members here have the same. Personally, I like to increase medication slowly, adding 12.5mcg Levo daily until well tolerated. Remember to retest 6-8 weeks after being on a consistent dose

Ninjacaz profile image
Ninjacaz in reply toBuddy195

Thanks for your reply. I think this is the way to go, I will begin increasing slowly from tomorrow morning.

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