Hello Everyone,
I just dont know anymore......i will have been trying for 10 years at the end of this one to get configuration of meds correct, and Im still having the same problems as I started.
I suspect too much of one or the other ie T4 or T3 and wondered if gait issues came up for others with either of these?
Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated, every best wish, G
Have you had B12 tested ? B12 deficiencies can cause balance and gait problems, especially when the deficiency is severe.
Hello Flippycatt,
I have, and MMA /Homocysteine, .....but as ive taken B Complex for more than 20 years the B12 is always high. I understand this scuppers MMA/Homocysteine results , but the longest I could get off B12 was 6 weeks, to my detriment. I needed to be off it for at least 4-6 months I found out via Paul Robinson for the test to be reasonably accurate.
I am METHFR+ one parent which indicates an issue with Folate rather than B12, but ive always thought B12 was the issue and the reason why I have to add more NDT just to be upright.........but I cant prove it.
Thank you for taking the time to reply, very kind of you. Every best wish, G
ive taken B Complex for more than 20 years the B12 is always high
Can you tell us which B Complex you take? And give us a link to the product?
If you have an MTHFR problem then some forms of B12 and folate are not helpful. The people with an MTHFR problem can't convert B vitamins very well from their inactive versions to their active versions. And any conversion in the body that involves "methyl donors" might work poorly in someone with an MTHFR problem because they have too few "methyl donors" available.
List of Inactive and Active B Vitamins :
jigsawhealth.com/blogs/news...
Anyone with less than ideal MTHFR genes who wants to or needs to take B vitamins should buy products containing vitamins in the Active column only.
Some info on the various kinds of B12 :
perniciousanemia.org/b12/fo...
perniciousanemia.org/b12/le...
perniciousanemia.org/b12/le...
And info on folic acid and methylfolate :
methyl-life.com/pages/methy...
drfuhrman.com/blog/16/why-y...
web.archive.org/web/2024022...
chriskresser.com/folate-vs-...
...
Worth reading about nutrients generally :
thyroiduk.org/role-of-vitam...
Hello Humanbean,
Lovely to hear from you again, thank you. And thank you for all the links which have taken me awhile to go through, but 2 of the papers were much better written then ones i had seen before, so ive filed them for me , and for any GP willing to help or be interested. Pigs fly etc!!
Being a ludite I dont know how to attach a link to this thread for a supplement, but I did know about the methyl products and over the last 10 years have taken Nutri Advanced B Complex, Igennus Super B Complex, and in the last few years have alternated these (as the B6 is so high in all of them) Biocare Nutrisorb B12 (hydroxocobalamin), Biocare Nutisorb Methyl B12 (adenoslycobalamin +methylcobalamin), Biocare Nutrisorb MethyFolGuard (l-methylfolate + methylcobalamin) I dont seem to get on with Igennus so well anymore.
Ive also tried in the past Biotics Research, Metabolics liquid and tabs, but have returned to the ones listed above.
My folates gone up a bit 43.4 (>7) and B12 active >150 (>37.5) Ferritin up a bit too 107 (30-332) but that might be due to insect bite or gut ulcer as CRP was unusually up a tad.
What you said about the MTHFR issue makes sense, I know i need some of the B's because somedays I can feel a benefit, but there is some part of it that I think makes me feel sicker......if that makes sense. Just getting too weak to sort it out these days.
The longest I went without B's was 5-6 weeks to do a MMA test, I felt dreadful despite having a word with myself!! Turned out I needed to be off B12 4-6months for an accurate test, ...wasted my money .
Thank you for taking the time to reply, every best wish , G
Hyperthyroidism can cause vertigo. When I needed high hormone doses I would go to John Lewis in Oxford Street and look over the escalator, if I got a sensation of vertigo I knew my dose was too high.
Hello Jimh111,
Very nice to hear from you again. I like your original testing method, made me smile....lets scrap the pescky nhs ranges and all go to John Lewis escalator!!!
I do have have weight loss and insomnia.........but im freezing cold,low temp, very low Blood Pressure, hair loss, fatigue, slow gut, air-hunger, weakness on exertion (if you could call walking for 2 minutes exertion). Despite starting back at the beginning with meds a couple of years ago and building up very very slowly ie 8- 12 weeks before a dose increase , so as not to miss the sweet spot this time....ive got nowhere, and feel like giving up.
Ive just had 8 days solid of barely being able to stand up, get the command to my legs to move, then 1 day off where I could move around ok ish, then next 4 days back to weird balance and gait. Medication related........dont know.
Maybe the T3 within Armour is too much for me or the T4 is not enough, I just dont know anymore......im just so weak now and weigh 6st 11lbs (42 kg) crazy.
Thank you for taking the time to reply, every best wish, G
Many of your symptoms sound like anaemia. Sometimes you can be anaemic with reasonable ferritin levels so maybe ask for more detailed testing.
Hello Jimh111,
Thank you for taking the time to reply. What would be more detailed testing please than FBC , Folate, Ferritin, TIBC,UIBC,Iron,Trans Sat,Clotting, MMA ? All of which are normal. Is there any others that would help do you know?
Ive just been back over my diaries and this balance/gait thing has been a feature on and off for 7 years+ ....its just alot worse this last 6 months.
The only difference over this time is I consume less B12 and have been raising NDT medication very gradually.
My Cortisol is elevated a bit in the morning, I gather this can be due to taking T3 (within NDT) + day to day stressors of being in this state.
With your meds and vertigo, was it the T4 or T3 you had to reduce?
Every best wish, G.
Sorry for the late reply. I saws a talk (possibly this one thyroidtrust.org/expert-ins... ) that mentioned that people can sometimes be anaemic with normal ferritin levles. So, given you symptoms it seesm reasonable to do further checks on your iron levels. Unfortunately, I don't know much about iron so you may have already done the appropriate tests.
When I had vertigo I reduced LT3 as I was only taking 50 mcg levothyroxine. It only needed a small reduction as I was fine tuning.
Thank you Jimh111 for taking the time to reply. I will take a look at this, and look into iron again.
Every best wish to you. G
Many of your symptoms sound like low cortisol which might be more of a problem than just T3 or T4 alone. And yes, the B12 deficiency is also quite plausible in this scenario as someone else said.
Hello Samaja,
Thank you for taking the time to reply. I do the Cortisol saliva test once a year roughly, and they are usually ok and in range except for the early morning one which is slightly elevated. I understand that early morning elevation can be due to the T3 within my NDT.
That said, my recent serum Cortisol (AM ) blood draw was elevated, I put that down to enormous additional stress going on at the time. I am about to do the CARS Cortisol test, which should be more accurate.......just got to time it with waking naturally without an alarm or anything that makes me jump suddenly.
Thank you again, every best wish , G
Low and high cortisol symptoms are very similar but when you are on T3 your levels really need to be optimal. Without the actual results it's difficult to say whether in range in sufficient and how much the elevated result might have played into it. Stress definitely can bring on a lot of issues and it can mess up cortisol, thyroid and deplete B12 significantly too. Probably more testing required.
I agree. Thank you for taking the time to reply Samaja. Every best wish to you. G
Years ago before diagnosed and then also when T3 meds were not working for me due to perimenopause. My gait was very slow and hunched over. I walked like a 90 years old. I remember my private consultant always came out to greet you so she could see how your walking was.The severe, chronic fatigue played a massive role in all this.
Hello Sparkly,
Thank you for your reply. And did you get better? and if so what did you do to achieve this?
Every best wish . G
Yes, as long as I'm on enough t3. If my body needs an increase then I start to slow down. My walking will be slower, standing up, sitting down just all general movements. This is severe fatigue for me.
Thank you Sparky, G
I like you have weird gait and balance issues. I walk with two sticks. It fast becomes a weird kind of vertigo, although the room doesnt spin my head does, if my T3 levels drop
Hello Hectorsmum2,
Thank you for taking the time to reply. Yes ,thats exactly the sensation....makes me want to shake my head.......not that that does anything.
Does that mean you increase your T3 ? Or do you think its that because of multiple possibilities ( ive read here) that your T3 absorbtion that particular day was less optimal? And that the next day is better.? Did you look into B12 Active?
Every best wish . G
I increase my T3 until it stops. on a steady dose now and the swimming head has stopped. I inject B12 weekly.
Thats good to know. Do you self source your T3 and your B12 ? Just writing these words to you feels so utterly wrong ,that so many people here go it alone...to live.
Thank you for sharing, Every best wish to you, G
Yes I self source. Best wishes S
Just one other thing if I may Hectorsmum2, did the T3 fix your spin or was it the B12 ....or both equally did you find?
Best wishes G.
It was the T3 definatley. I didnt start taking the b12 for months after the T3 had resolved the spinning head.
Thank you Hectorsmum2.............ive got to keep trying, G
Hi Gillybean1,
I have had problems with balance but that’s definitely a hypo thing for me. I’d put money on the fact I’m under replaced. Blood test next week!x
Good luck Blue-Lagoon, I bet you are right as well......intuition still counts....alot. May we never lose it.
Every best wish to you and thank you for your reply. G
Thank you! No problem at all ☺️
Too little or too much T3 can cause inner ear issues. Your vestibular system (aka your inner ear) is what controls gait and balance. I am new to hypofunction and am suffering from is as well. Trying to figure it out.
Hello Lovebones,
Thank you for taking the time to reply. Its tricky to navigate this stuff, Im running out of steam after 10 years.
You have found a great forum here, with some wonderfully kind and knowledgeable folk to guide you.
Every best wish to you, G
Joint pain with too much T3?
How to increase T3 and T4 without suppressing TSH too much
How do I balance my T4 with T3
T4 to T3 and hair problems?
