Am I going overactive due to Armour?

[Jojozo]

Hello. I was diagnosed with an underactive thyroid when I was 21, and Hashimoto's when I was 39.

I started taking Armour Thyroid two months ago at great cost via a private endo, hoping I would feel much better. But if anything, I feel worse. I just wondered if anyone else had experienced anything similar? Is it possible to be intolerant to Armour?!

I am incredibly fatigued with flu-like symptoms. This is fairly normal for me due to Fybromyalgia, but I usually get some weeks where I feel better, and I feel weak all the time. At the moment I feel like I want to stay in bed all the time, which is boring and impossible!

I have also noticed that I am more shivery / sweaty lately. I had a hysterectomy three years ago and I'm on HRT, and it wasn't a problem before I moved into Armour, so I don't think it's to do with menopause.

I had a private blood test done recently and the doctor at Medichecks who analysed them said I was in danger of going overactive, based on these results. I am not losing any weight and I am feeling very depressed.

All my vitamin levels were fine. Can anyone offer any advice? Thanks so much in advance!

[RedApple]

You cannot 'go overactive' but you can be overmedicated. The symptoms you describe, and the test result details strongly suggest that you are on too high a dose of Armour.

What dose were you taking when this test was done? And when did you take your last dose of Armour before the blood was taken for this test?

[Jojozo in reply to RedApple]

HI, I was on 2 grains each morning and 1 1/2 grains each afternoon. I waited 24 hours after taking the Armour before I did the test. It was 9am and I had fasted that morning.

Previously to Armour, I was on 125mg Levothyroxine and 40 mg T3.

Is it possible to feel more tired and put on weight if you're overmedicated? I assumed it would be the opposite! Thank you!

[Jamima in reply to Jojozo]

Hi Jojozo - I was put on too high a dose of armour without titrating and ended up feeling truly awful, the exact opposite of what people describe when overmedicated; tired, brain fogged, aching/stiff joint, my face and tongue puffed up, I felt really bad, so yes armour can do that in excess.

[Jojozo in reply to Jamima]

Thanks so much Jamima. Did you stick with it or change meds? I didn't titrate at all. I was put straight onto Armour from Levo and T3.

[Jamima in reply to Jojozo]

I didn’t stick with it, I just couldn’t because I felt so awful. I stopped for a few days then reduced to 1 grain for a few weeks, still felt awful and before my 8 week follow up date I contacted the doc to ask what I should do. At that point I was down to a 1/4 grain and still felt really bad. I parted ways with that doc and have recently started on 25 Levo again which I’m going to take slowly. Even if you worked out the approproximate equivalent Levo - armour, some day 80 per grain, some say 100 but lets say it’s 80, you were on the equivalent of 280 Levo and your previous combined total was only 245 and that’s just very roughly so it was too high to start.

[Jojozo in reply to Jamima]

Wow. That is a lot of levo! I haven't been able to function properly, and I was really hoping that the Armour was going to be the magic cure 😅

[Jamima in reply to Jojozo]

Yes? I thought it would be the magic ‘cure’ too, sadly not. I also have low adrenal output throughout the day and I believe NDT can be quite hard on the adrenals, nevertheless it was the too much too soon way of taking it which it which scuppered me.

[Jojozo in reply to Jamima]

I also have adrenal issues, which the specialist knows, so why she put me on such a high dose and didn’t suggest that I titrate is a mystery.

[Jamima in reply to Jojozo]

As we’ve established on pm that we share the same doc, there’s a pattern developing for this particular doc, and it’s not in the patient’s favour. Low adrenal output is very much a ‘thing’ when considering thyroid dosage and protocol. This doc threw in as an aside that I should continue with the adrenavive I was taking , otherwise I might crash on the armour. Looking back I should have expanded on that but it was right at the end of the consult and the doc seemed quite keen to end it.

[Jojozo in reply to Jamima]

Wow. That is a lot of levo! I haven't been able to function properly, and I was really hoping that the Armour was going to be the magic cure 😅

[RedApple in reply to Jojozo]

Wow, so a total of 31/2 grains of Armour a day? That is a very high dose, and clearly too much for you. You need to discuss your symptoms and results with your private endo and get their advice on how much to lower your dose by. I'm surprised that you were started on such a high dose.

'Is it possible to feel more tired and put on weight if you're overmedicated? '

Absolutely it is. There are no hard and fast rules about what symptoms any individual might experience with either too little or too much thyroid hormone.

[Jojozo in reply to RedApple]

Thank you so much. I have felt awful from pretty much from as soon as I started taking it. I thought it would be good to give it a period of integration, but things aren't getting any better.

[RedApple in reply to Jojozo]

'I have felt awful from pretty much from as soon as I started taking it. '

If you went straight from 125mg Levothyroxine and 40 mg T3 one day to taking 31/2 grains Armour the next day, then that was a bad move in itself. When moving to NDT it is always advisable to start on a low dose and gradually titrate up over several weeks until you reach a dose that is starting to feel right. Hold the dose for a reasonable length of time at that point, then re-test to see where your levels are, and how those levels correlate with your current symptoms.

By increasing slowly and gradually, you have more chance of finding the right dose for you, which we commonly refer to as your 'sweet spot' . By jumping straight in to a high dose, you have already passed your 'sweet spot'.

[Jojozo in reply to RedApple]

I definitely don't feel like I'm in the sweet spot now. I'm not sure what to do, except lower my dose. I would rather not go back to the same private endo again.

[RedApple in reply to Jojozo]

Be aware that I'm not medically qualified to advise you, and neither is anyone else here.

We can only offer suggestions based on experience, but we will try to help you if you're unwilling to discuss with your endo or GP. 😊

Can you recall what thyroid hormones you were taking (what dose and whether T4 only or T4 + T3), when you felt any better at all than you do now? That might give us a basis to work from.

[greygoose]

Three and a half grains of Armour is rather a large dose, it's true. But your results are not over-range. And even before Armour you were on a very high dose of T4+T3. Perhaps you're just one of those people that needs their results high in range.

However, if you left 24 hours between your last dose of Armour and the blood draw, you actaully have a false 'low' FT3. You should leave 8 to 12 hours, and had you left that amount of time, your FT3 would have been even higher. But, impossible to know by how much.

It's perfectly possible to have symptoms like fatigue and weight gain when over-medicated. That's the strange thing about thyroid symptoms of too much and too little hormone are very much the same.

I just wondered if anyone else had experienced anything similar? Is it possible to be intolerant to Armour?!

Absolutely, yes! NDT made me feel much worse and I put on so much weight with it! I ended up a bed-bound whale! I stuck it out for three or four years because my doctor at that time insisted that Armour was 'THE only way to go'. And just kept increasing my dose. Eventually, though, I came to my senses and went onto T3 mono-therapy.

I think the best thing you can do is reduce your dose slightly and see if you feel any better.

By the way, Medichecks doctors' comments are really not worth having. They are not thyroid specialists, they are just common or garden GPs with next to no knowledge of thyroid. Far better to post on here and get comments and advice from forum members.

[Jojozo]

Thank you so much. I will reduce my dose slightly from today. It's very interesting that you had the same experience. I have never heard of T3 mono-therapy?

Ah, that makes sense with Medichecks!

[pennyannie in reply to Jojozo]

The T4 - Levothyroxine will have taken around 6-8 weeks to fully leave your body - the T3 would leave quicker - and guessing it's power reducing over the first a week or two -

so for a smooth transition to NDT -

as the synthetic T3/T4 reduce in your body- you slowly add in 1/4 grains of NDT weekly -

slow a steady increments of 1/4 grains weekly, as the synthetic T3/T4 reduces in your body would have been the way to go -

Do you monitor your blood pressure, pulse and body temperature AM & PM - if so - did any major changes happen ?

What were your bench mark T3/T4 readings on the synthetic T3/T4 dose before switching to NDT and are your ferritin, folate, B12 and vitamin D at optimal levels ?

[Framboise]

Hi again Jojozo, I can now see that you were taking the same amounts of T4 and T3 that I was taking prior to starting Armour. In my case I was started on half a grain and went up to 1 grain, via 1.75 grains, very slowly over several weeks. That was about 18 years ago and I still don't need 3.5 grains! I'm doing fine now on 3.25 grains of Thyroid-S for four days then 3 grains for two. I'm appalled that any doctor would start someone on 3.5 grains of Armour, it's not the same as T4 and T3. I'm even more appalled that there are three people here who were treated in the same way by the same doctor.

I see that a while ago you asked about doctors in East Sussex and so I'll PM you the details of mine, who I think is wonderful. Meanwhile I think the three of you need to do something about the doctor you saw, before she causes even worse problems for anyone.