Here are my latest results. My cholesterol is also a little high which I believe may indicate my thyroid may be a little undermedicated.
I'm on 125mcg Levothyroxine. I stopped T3 late last year as I was having terrible sleep with night sweats at the time (I was also on the T3 withdrawal clinic). I am a little fatigued and still not working, but that's mostly psychological I think at this stage.
Forgive me for asking this, but why were you on the T3 withdrawal clinic? T3 is a hormone, it's not a drug that you can wean off. You can't live without it.
Yes, your TSH is much too high. Should come down to 1 or under - suppressed if you're taking T3. And your FT4 is much too high, which isn't good long-term. you are a poor converter. You need T3 added to a possibly reduced dose of levo.
My GP put me forward to see an endo and it was the T3 withdrawal guy. I imported my T3 from abroad, but I decided to play along. I was mucking about with so much (T4, T3, testosterone, all the supplements) that I thought a reset wouldn't be a bad idea. The night sweats and poor sleep stopped when I stopped both the Liothyronine and the Testosterone. I know that's not a scientific way of doing things.
Now I'm in a position to consider liothyronine again.
I think my lack of oomph is more psychological than physical and I'm working on that.
I've tried for years to improve my energy, etc. I've spent YEARS on T4, T4&T3, NDT, regular blood tests. My levels have been good in the past and I'd argue that they aren't bad now. I spent a year or more supplementing. I now realise that I need to work on myself psychologically, in addition to getting my thyroid, etc in good shape.
I'll probably add in a little T3. I'm no longer putting all my eggs in the basket labelled "thyroid health"!
The blood was drawn at 10, fasted, 12 hours after last Levothyroxine. I was taking many supplements for many months whilst I was on Liothyronine (and the Testosterone). Magnesium, vitamin D3, Thorne basic B complex. I've not bothered with them for many months as they didn't impact my energy or oomph - most likely caused by depression which I'm working on with a counsellor.
My vitamin D was previously fine and with all the sun this year it'll still be fine now, but I may start supplementing again as the night draw in.
I had same problem. GP’s try and keep all thyroid patients in the lower quartile of range. Makes life simple for them but not for a lot of their patients who are being under medicated. I just told the gp I wasn’t happy at that level as knew my own body! Balked a bit but in the end gave me the higher dose - all good lol
But I was also being given thyroxine from different suppliers - mixing suppliers etc. I found that if I was given TEVA version I had terrible sweats and felt very under medicated. Got him to put on prescription that must not be given TECA brand or mixed brands. Problem sorted - though you would think pharmacy should have known not to mix brands , and the TEVA one has a history of problems both here and the continent!
Hi Decant, I'm not sure if I will be any help because I am on levo due to having my thyroid gland totally removed. I take a 75mg dose and a 50mg dose on alternate days. I have had blood tests the latest of which showed my folic acid was low soo I'm now taking a prescribed supplement for 4 months it also showed that my cholesterol was high 6.2 and I am pre diabetic. I take magnesium L threanate (not sure on the spelling) and since starting them I've noticed i sleep better my concentration is improved as is my brain fog. I read that you should leave about 4 hours between taking levo and magnesium so i do that. I've just started taking plant sterols to combat the cholesterol as my dr wanted to put me on statins, I said I'd rather try to get it down myself. The Dr seems more concerned with cholesterol than my thyroid problems. I don't think drs understand thyroids at all, I am also given levo which is from different manufacturers but until I read about the sweats on this forum I was ignorant of this side effect I shall try to address this with my dr. Good luck decant.
Unless you're particularly petite thats a very small dose of Levo. Do start a post with your latest thyroid and vitamin results for suggestions from members.
Hi, high cholesterol and high glucose are definitely signs that you are not getting enough thyroid hormones. In the good old days, thyroid disease was diagnosed when people were 'sluggish' and presented with high glucose and cholesterol levels. They were treated until the symptoms disappeared.
These days, there is an over reliance on TSH, and if it is anywhere within or above the reference range they don't care, but if it is just one small step below the range, they go bonkers! 🙄
If your metabolism is slowed down, your body cannot cope with processing glucose and lipids, hence the levels rise. Any form of diet will not influence this, as it is a metabolism problem, not a diet problem. But doctors rather throw metformin or statins at patients, instead of addressing the underlying problem, which is an underperforming thyroid! As a rule of thumb, a person needs around 1.6 mcg T4 per kg of body weight, so for example a person weighing 65kg would need around 104 mcg thyroxine. But of course this is no hard and fast rule, just an approximate guidance, but it gives you an idea. So unless you are weighing around 46 kg, your dose might be far too low!
I would advise you to do a full thyroid panel and check your levels, I am pretty sure you need an increase and then your other symptoms will improve as well! Good luck!😉
I know it's a rule of thumb but I wonder if the calculation (1.6mcg T4 per kg) is based on lean body mass (excluding fat) or total body weight?
I'm 85kg, so that makes for 136 mcg.
Based on my digital scales I have 21% fat, about 18kg (18 bags of sugar - wow). I don't fully trust my scales apart from the weight. My zero fat weight (just for reference) would be about 67kg.
At 10% fat (healthier) my non-fat weight would be 76.5kg giving 122 mcg.
At 5% fat (very lean) my weight would be 71kg giving 113 mcg.
For my height (183cm) my supposed healthy weight is between 73 and 80kg depending which calculation is used.
Sorry for the late reply, my notifications are lagging a bit behind!🙄
Maths was never my strength I must admit - but I can see where you are coming from. I found a recent publication regarding weight-based levothyroxine adjustment, which suggests that the 1.5-1.8 mcg/kg calculations are based on an ideal body weight with a BMI of up to 25 kg/m2.
So based on that, people who have a higher body mass index, should actually receive a lower amount of levothyroxine. Given that one of the reasons for weight gain in hypothyroid patients is that they do not have enough thyroxine hormones to stimulate their metabolism, keeping their levothyroxine levels down will not result in adequate treatment, hence they will not be able to lose the weight to be 'within the lean body mass' for the guideline treatment - so they would lose out twice. Over replacement is banded around far too often in my opinion, and is just a feeble excuse to hide behind the guidelines.
In addition, thyroid hormones can regulate the amount of fat synthesis and breakdown as well as thermogenesis (production of heat - hence many under-treated patients feel cold!). So again restricting thyroid hormones can actually have a very negative effect, as their metabolism will remain slow, hence they cannot properly regulate their fat synthesis. Hence many patients have increased cholesterol levels, as the lipid breakdown is impaired with too little hormones.
there is an article on adipose tissue and thyroid hormones.
In my opinion, it is very dangerous for physicians to 'qualify' which patients should get what amount of thyroid hormones, which will further lead to treatment inequalities.
Dr's are too keen to put people on statins. I won't go on them even though my cholesterol was a little high this time. I believe that an undertreated thyroid will cause cholesterol to increase. I'd far rather tweak my thyroid and increase exercise and improve my diet.
Thanks for responding, I am considering what to do next. I too readily fell into the "black hole" of thinking everything is thyroid related whereas now it's one component of my overall health!
Hi, as others have suggested, your T3 is very low compared to your T4 and the TSH is too high. As you seem to be not converting T4 to T3 very well, I think it might be good to have a think about going back to add some T3 to your meds. T3 is linked to mood and has interestingly been used successfully in people with depression (in combination with anti-depressants).
Night sweats are not usually associated with hypothyroidism, but can pinpoint a hormonal imbalance. Interestingly, if your ferritin levels are too low, this can also cause night sweats and low iron stores have also been linked to depression. Your iron levels are not rock bottom, but could definitely be improved. Maybe worth a try?
It might also be worth you reconsidering your supplement regime and slowly adding some T3 in. Give it some time though, things tend to take some time to improve, especially if things have been out of whack for a bit. But don't despair, it will get better! Good luck!😉
Thanks for responding. I have tried so many things, including many supplements (for an extended period) including D3, magnesium, B complex, Lion's Mane, etc. This also conincided with my T4+T3 medication.
Impatient me thinks I should add it all back in, but "scientific method" me knows that I should not change too many things at once. OTOH I'm a human being who wants to be well, energetic, clear-headed, confident - not a computer.
1. Last night I restarted 1/4 of a 25mcg liothyronine pill.
2. I shall add D3, Magnesium and B complex back in
3. I'll keep exercising, improving sleep habits and regular counselling
No worries!😉 I am sure you will see an improvement soon, but be patient with yourself, your body needs time to process it all and getting things on board again. It seems a long road ahead at the beginning, but you will get there. I would retest in 6-8 weeks after a dose increase, this way you can see if you are on the right track or if you need another adjustment. All the best! 😉
I was wondering how you were doing and I am really pleased that you are feeling better 👍. It may feel subjective to you, but if you think 12.5mcg T3 for 11 days (so 137.5 mcg in total!) is quite a bit of T3 your body could utilise in that time - I am sure that had a positive impact. And the supplementation regimen provided your body with extra help to function more effectively. I think it is great that you are keeping a journal, it's a very good way of documenting things - I do like a bit of scientific method! 😉
There will be ups and down along the way, but try to be patient and kind to yourself. I tend to forget my supplements on occasions, if there is a lot of other stuff going on around me, and then I am getting annoyed at myself - which is not helpful 🙄. But then, we are only human after all....🤷♀️ I am sure you will continue to improve. I keep my fingers crossed and let me know how you are getting on!
Sorry, its me again - I just had another thought. Are you supplementing with Vit D3? Low levels of Vitamin D3 have been associated with depression as well. I have included a link to a publication:
As hypothyroid sufferers, we usually have low Vit D3 and need to supplement. A good Vit D3 level will also help your body processing your thyroid hormones more efficiently, so it is worth considering this. I supplement with 3000IU of Vit D3 (+ Vit K2) all year round and my levels are 126 nmol/L. I noticed a dramatic difference in my wellbeing, once the levels went above the 100 nmol/L mark. Hope this helps! 🙂
Thanks for your reply Tina_Maria. I had blood tests but all the drs say is your levels are fine. I'm going to ask to see an endo because I never saw one after I'd had my thyroid removed. Your reply makes very interesting reading. After my op I was put on 75 mg levo, then a year ago they said my levels were high but not too much out of range, that's why I alternate doses each day with 50mg and 75mg. I see on these posts people giving their blood test results but I don't get them like that, I just get told they are alright, although this time I have been told my folic acid is low so they put me on a supplement for 4 month's. The drs have never said to fast before a blood test, I don't know whether they treat people with no thyroid gland differently to people who are hypothyroid but still have their thyroid gland. Thankyou T
I had blood tests but all the drs say is your levels are fine.
You are legally entitled to printed copies of your blood test results and ranges.
The best way to get access to current and historic blood test results is to register for online access to your medical record and blood test results
UK GP practices are supposed to offer everyone online access for blood test results. Ring and ask if this is available and apply to do so if possible, if it is you may need "enhanced access" to see blood results.
In reality some GP surgeries still do not have blood test results online yet
Alternatively ring receptionist and request printed copies of results. Allow couple of days and then go and pick up.
Far too often only TSH is test which is completely useless
Bloods should be retested 6-8 weeks after each dose change or brand change in levothyroxine
For full Thyroid evaluation you need TSH, FT4 and FT3 tested
Very important to test vitamin D, folate, ferritin and B12
Low vitamin levels are extremely common when hypothyroid, especially if on inadequate dose levothyroxine
Lower vitamin levels more common as we get older
For good conversion of Ft4 (levothyroxine) to Ft3 (active hormone) we must maintain GOOD vitamin levels
What vitamin supplements are you taking
Also VERY important to test TSH, Ft4 and Ft3 together
Recommended that all thyroid blood tests early morning, ideally just before 9am, only drink water between waking and test and last dose levothyroxine 24 hours before test
This gives highest TSH, lowest FT4 and most consistent results. (Patient to patient tip)
Private tests are available as NHS currently rarely tests Ft3 or all relevant vitamins
Thankyou SlowDragon, it's only since joining this forum that I've realised how totally ignorant i am about thyroid problems. I have trusted my drs to look after my health. I'd never heard of t3 till coming on here. I've had it tested once because I insisted on it. Again, I was told, "Oh yes everything is ok" What does that mean? I think I'm going to have to bite the bullet and have private blood tests. They've tested ferritin, follic acid, vit d. And everything is "normal". I currently take magnesium L-threonate 1080mg plant sterols 800mg. Folic acid 5mg, omoprazole 10mg, progynova 2mg, levo 75mg & 50mg alternate days, I have no idea what I'm doing but I do feel a lot better on the magnesium. Thanks for your advice SlowDragon.
It should make no difference as a patient if you have hypothyroidism due to the removal of the thyroid gland, or if your thyroid just stops making the hormones you need. You are hypothyroid and that's what needs to be addressed.
It is important that you fast before a blood test (just water), if you are taking your meds beforehand, you will likely get a false 'high' of your T4, as some of the meds will have been processed and gone into your bloods; hence you cannot be sure what your proper overall T4 status is. Best time for blood test is before or around 9am where TSH is the highest. You are legally entitled to a print out of your blood tests; if the surgery only tests TSH and perhaps T4 if you are lucky, I would do a private test and get the T3 tested as well. Monitor my health offer a reasonably priced thyroid test, if you enter the code THYROIDUK10, you will get a 10% discount on the test.
Thank you, Tina_Maria, i have been looking at the private tests and I have decided that's the way to go although the blurb on the sites is confusing as most say fasting not needed!
Yes, they too think that's not important but it really is. Also, if you are taking Vit B supplements, you need to stop them about a week before the test, as biotin interferes with thyroid measurements (they advise 48 or 72h, but better to be on the safe side). Be aware that you will get a 'blurp' from the private labs as well, but these are also your garden variety GPs who are not that clued up on thyroid matters, so best to post your results here and people will be happy to help. 😉
Content on HealthUnlocked does not replace the relationship between you and doctors or other healthcare professionals nor the advice you receive from them.
Never delay seeking advice or dialling emergency services because of something that you have read on HealthUnlocked.
Low TSH, FT4 & Ft3 
Titrating Armour and FT4/FT3 has tanked
FT3 - low & fluctuating?
