Hi what does TSH level 4.73 and free T4 level 8.8 mean?
I have been struggling for years with tiredness (I also have fibromyalgia). This tiredness is different. I'm struggling with it now. Achieving very little. Every time I have a blood test, which is not often cause I get told everything fine, no further action.
A few years ago I was diagnosed with a vitamin D deficiency, and prescribed a large dose initially, and advised to continue with vitD forever, the one I have at the mo includes K2. This has made no difference to my tiredness. I was also diagnosed with type2 diabetes 18 months ago, which I am controlling with diet, just. So think I am borderline.
Was wondering about the thyroid levels which have been creeping up the past few years
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CustardTarts
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Welcome to the group. If you could complete your profile it helps members understand your thyroid journey so far and be able to advise you better. Click on your image icon to start. Fill out the free text box at the top.
Could you add the reference range for each test - numbers in brackets after your rest.
Your FT4 does look very low and your TSH on the high side. To get a diagnosis of hypothyroidism & begin treatment you need 2 TSH results, 3 months apart above range. Some doctors believe your TSH has to be above 10 but there is also the other criteria I mentioned.
How much vit D are you taking? Most people need a minimum of 3,000iu to get their level and keep it at optimum.
at bedtime works well for them.
When hypo we get low stomach acid which means we cannot absorb vitamins well from our food, regardless of a great diet. For thyroid hormone to work well we need OPTIMAL levels of vitamins.
Have you recently or could you ask your GP to test levels of ferritin, folate, B12 & D3? Private tests are available, see link for companies offering private blood tests & discount codes, some offer a blood draw service at an extra cost. thyroiduk.org/testing/priva...
There is also a new company offering walk in& mail order blood tests in London, Kent, Sussex & Surrey areas. Check to see if there is a blood test company near you. onedaytests.com/products/ul...
Only do private tests on a Monday or Tuesday to avoid postal delays.
Do you know if you had positive thyroid antibodies? Many with autoimmune thyroid disease aka Hashimoto's benefit from a gluten free diet. A smaller percentage of those also need to remove dairy from their diet to feel well. These are intolerances and will not show up on any blood test.
Did you do the test as per the protocol recommended here? Recommended blood test protocol: Test at 9am (or as close as possible), fasting & no biotin containing supplements for 3-7 days (Biotin can interfere with thyroid blood results as it is used in the testing process).
Testing like this gives consistency in your results and will show stable blood levels of hormone and highest TSH which varies throughout the day.
I cant really fill in a thyroid journey so far, as I don't know if that is my issue.
I am within the brackets for each test, which is why am confused feeling the way I do.
TSH (0.3 - 5.0) T4 (7.9 - 16)
My vitD is now 4000iu with K2. I take that of a morning after breakfast, are you saying evening is best? I have also recently started on B12, maybe a month into that and don't feel anymore energy.
I'm not aware I've been tested for antibodies, I usually go and say how tired I am and get a blood test. Maybe its a standard test and because it falls within the brackets they rule out any issues. My tests are usually morning can't remember the timings but on an empty stomach. I was tested for gluten intolerance due to feeling of bloating when eating bread and that came back ok.
A friend had suggested thyroid many years ago noticing my eyebrows being very sparse and uneven. I have forgotten what a good nights sleep is, having to get up a couple of times to go the loo, which I put down to the diabetes maybe, Also thought initially it was due to 22 years as a foster carer for babies. I read somewhere recently about nails, mine are thin and have vertical ridges, which I thought maybe dehydration.
my records show an increase year on year:
2014 TSH 2.31
2017 TSH 2.85 T4 9.3
2018 B12 348ng/L VitD 30nm (the year I retired due to excessive tiredness)
2019 TSH 3.25 T4 10.7
2023 TSH 4.73 T4 8.8
I will look at those links you provide, and take on board what you suggest I ask the dr to check for
Your TSH is clearly rising if you look at the results over the years. It looks like your thyroid is really struggling and it may not be too long before your TSH goes over range. Point out how your TSH is changing to your GP. Ask to be tested every 3-4 months.
Unfortunately it can take many years before blood results peep outside the range which is why its essential to test at 9am or earlier when TSH is highest.
Your FT4 is really bottom of the range and although doctors never recognise it most people have multiple symptoms years before getting an official diagnosis.
You could just put in your bio that you're seeking a diagnosis and have fibromyalgia plus your blood results.
Have you had antibodies tested? There are 2 types and the NHS only tests one type - TPO. Privately you can also test Tg antibodies. This would show if the cause of your low thyroid levels is autoimmune or Hashimoto's.
Which B12 supplement have you started? Likely you need minimum of 1,000iu a day of methylcobalmin which is the active type of vitamin your body will find easier to use.
Yes there is definitely a pattern of my levels increasing.
I have a list going now lol! but at least I'm getting an incite into what I'm looking for, and what to ask for. I just need enuf energy to get by with, as it is definitely getting to a point were I won't function at all, even mentally tired.
Hi CustardTarts - love them! lol - welcome to the forum.
A TSH of over 4 means that you are hypo but the NHS is never going to admit it. They like it to go over 10 before they will agree to diagnose hypo.
The FT4 level doesn't mean anything without the range. Please, always add ranges because they vary from lab to lab. But, on most ranges that would be low - which is what one expects when hypo.
However, just testing TSH and FT4 is not very helpful - I know! The NHS isn't very helpful where thyroid is concerned! You also need to know what your FT3 and antibodies are. So, if you're worried about your thyroid, it would be best to get private labs done so that you can see the full story.
You certainly sound hypo - and you probably don't have fibro, just undiagnosed/untreated hypo.
Did you have any other nutrients tested: vit B12, folate, ferritin? Having low levels of those will cause fatigue. And hypos usually do have low levels of most nutrients. So, best to get them tested.
Good that you are taking vit D, but are you taking magnesium with it? The two work together so vit D won't do much for you without the magnesium.
Only found this reply by chance because you didn't click on the blue 'Reply' button under my comments, so I wasn't notified.
FT4: 8.8 pmol/l (Range 7.9 - 16) 11.11%
So, your FT4 is very, very low. Pretty certain you are hypo. It should be around 50%.
I have recently started B12 about a month in and don't feel energised yet.
Well, taking one isolated B vit probably isn't going to help you, anyway. The Bs all work togther so you should be taking a B complex with that B12. Which form of B12 is it, anyway? Is it methylcobalamin? If it's cyanocobalamin your probable are even absorbing it.
the B12 I'm taking is the 1000iu cyanocobalmin, time release one. which is annoying it was recommended by holland and barratt. Not particularly cheap. why wouldn't I absorb it?
I would never, ever buy my supplements in Holland and Barratt. Not the best quality. And the fact that they recommend time-release cyanocobalamin shows they don't know much about B12.
Cyanocobalamin has to be converted in the body to methylcobalamin, and not everybody is very good at that.
Time-released is not a very good system because it depends on how fast, or otherwise, your transit is. And also how much B12 gets pas the stomach, where it can be destroyed by the stomach acid.
For maximum absorption, we always recommend sublingual methylcobalamin. But, you do also need the good B complex to keep the Bs balanced, or the B12 won't do much for you.
Doctors know absolutely nothing about nutrition. Never take advice from them, always check on here.
I don't suppose he told you to take magnesium and vit K2-MK7 with your vit D, did he? But you do need to.
There's not actually much choice of sublingual methylcobalamin, so just buy what you can find - although you won't find it in H&B! You want 1000 mcg daily.
No it was me that asked in 2018 if magnesium was my problem, then Dr added D and B12 to the list of blood test. I had a call from the surgery saying Dr had left a prescription cause the D was deficient. No mention of the B12, which looking at was low too and no mention of magnesium. I watched Dr John Campbell once and he recommended about the K2, so I have D3 plus K2 now. I will look online later and see what is available and hopefully order something. Think I need to look at magnesium too, is there a minimum I should be looking for? Gosh I'll rattle by time I've finished!
Funny since joining yesterday I can almost see a pattern developing, all the symptoms I've mentioned to the Dr over the years. Bloating so she checked for gluten intolerance, tiredness for years, which I put down to Fibromyalgia, diagnosed early 90s. A friend mentioned patchy eyebrows years ago. Weight gain, when I don't think I overeat, but I am not doing so much because of this excessive tiredness. Lack of sleep, getting up every 2-3 hours during the night. I wake very hot in the early hours and have to put a fan on in the bedroom, winter and summer. Cholesterol up so Dr put me on statins, which I have stopped taking. Had a pacemaker fitted a year ago, I was in shock over that, still don't understand. Then just found somink on here from a cardiologist to suggest thyroid can affect the heart, if I'm reading it right
Yes, you do need to take magnesium if you're taking vit D because the two work together. And if you don't take magnesium, the vit D will deplete it - and it's probably low, anyway - and it's needed for a lot of other things besides. As I said, never ask a doctor for nutritional advice because they haven't got a clue! One usually take about 300 to 400 mg.
Hypothyroidism most certainly does affect the heart! The heart needs a lot of T3, and by the sound of it, yours is low - high cholesterol is a symptom of low T3. So, really not surprising you've had all these health problems. But, doctors don't have a clue about thyroid either!
Its really scarey, when you cant trust your GP, don't think my T3 ever been checked. Sounds like a lot of my issues maybe could have been avoided.
I have been looking to see if i can find sublingual B12, not having much luck, looking deeper some offer a tablet to swallow, which sorta defeats the objective. Some say they are methylcobalamin then you look deeper and they're the other one. Some have so many bulking stuff in too
thank you so much for all your help and advice. I'm getting a better understanding, altho it's still all a bit mind boggling. Might go and have a lie down
Oh, the mind-boggling eventually wears off, don't worry. If you keep on reading you will have a series of light-bulb moments when things become clear, and you wonder why you didn't see it before!
It's the one I use when I can get hold of it, but it sometimes goes out of stock. Or, there is Jarrows, but those are larger tablets and not easy to suck!
I don't think I've ever met a GP that I could trust on any level, not just for thyroid and nutrition. They like us to think they know everything but they really don't know very much at all! When my mother was dying of bladder cancer, her GP 'diagnosed' her with flu!
Sorry to hear about your mum, I think all this covid stuff has exposed an awful lot about the medical profession. I think they are very good at sticking plasters on everything
I had spotted that one on amazon, but if you read further it is the cyan one
I'm echoing Greygoose. Never buy vitamins from Holland & Barrett. We can recommend products to each other.
I struggled with B12. As we age we stop producing intrinsic factor in our stomaches, or vastly reduce it. That stops us absorbing B12 from food or vitamin tablets. I've moved onto injections now, but before that I found Nature Provides Vitamin B12 Drops 3000mcg, Methylcobalamin and Adenosylcolbalamin high strength sublingual drops to be good. I bought them on Amazon, but they were recommended on here.
Two things have to be present to overcome the issues of low vitamin B12. When originally researching the issues, they called one the extrinsic factor (it comes from outside the body), and the other intrinsic factor (it is made inside the body).
Eventually, they determined the extrinsic factor is what we now call vitamin B12 - a cobalamin, hence we no longer call it extrinsic factor. And the intrinsic factor is a substance made in the stomach. If you only have one of those factors, you suffer from lack of B12. If you have both, there is a complicated series of steps which should result in B12 being absorbed from your gut - so long as you are getting enough in your diet.
The stomach can have its ability to make intrinsic factor impaired by several things including autoimmune gastritis and bariatric surgery. And production reduces as we age!
If all works really well, as it does for many of us up to something like middle-age, then we only need a few micrograms of B12 a day. If it doesn't work as well, we might need more, possibly a lot more. But we might still not get enough which is when we need injections.
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