3 arrows iron: everyone experienced an increase in ferritin?

[Noelnoel]

For those of you who have tried it, what has your experience been. Overwhelmingly positive reports on here so far but my husband, whose ferritin is dire, on 4 months of 3 arrows it’s got worryingly worse

June 23 Thorne bis 25mg

36.9 (30-400)

Dec 23 Thorne bis 50mg for 5 months

52.3 (30-400)

Today 3 arrows 60mg (3 caps) for 4 months

41.1 (30-400)

His Hb has risen from 142 to 145 (130-170) and RBC from 4.09 to 4.23 (4.2-5.8)

Cause for celebration?

[Regenallotment]

3 is a big dose

Just wondering where it’s all going…. Is it all being absorbed?

The article I read a while back about Iron Deficiency Without Anaemia suggests (in women at least) that if periods have stopped and ferritin doesn’t rise with treatment then it’s important to check bowel health for any bleeding. To identify the source of the loss.

Other than that I’m stumped, is it worth asking Three Arrows themselves?

I’ll be interested to hear what you find out.

🌱

[Noelnoel in reply to Regenallotment]

Thank you Regen

I too thought 3 was a lot but I emailed her and she asked me to re-check the calculator, which I did and if I’ve calculated correctly he should be taking 4 to 8. Yikes! His haemoglobin had gone from 140 to 145 (130-170), which is a small positive

This is what she said:

Great to hear from you! I understand how frustrating it is trying to wade through different supplements & how much to take...with zero guidance!!

For how much to take, we follow the American Society of Hematology guidelines for iron supplementation, which utilizes your individual weight to establish an approximate daily iron intake range. You can find the guideline in the Tribe Success Tools ThreeArrowsNutra.com/warrior

In order to restore true iron deficiency, we have to take enough to allow our body to have the iron it needs to support day to day functions AND safely supplement with enough to allow the body to rebuild its ferritin reserve. I would wager, depending on your husband's weight, that he isn't taking enough for his body/weight....so definitely check that.

Also, I don't know what his hemoglobin did over that period of time...but like I said before, the body prioritizes hemoglobin (since that is daily circulating iron) so when supplementing, hemoglobin is the first marker to improve. Then, when that is optimal & the body feels like it can safely keep some in reserve, it will begin to raise ferritin.

Hope that helps!

Have a blessed day!

Krystal

I’ve wondered what might be going on in his bowels but we may have to consider it more seriously

Thanks again for your thoughts on the matter

PS I got that wrong. Three capsules is 60mg

[Noelnoel in reply to Regenallotment]

PS

3 capsules is 60mg not 120

[TiggerMe]

His Hb has risen from 142 to 145 (130-170) and RBC from 4.09 to 4.23 (4.2-5.8)

I would think this is very positive as it shows the iron is getting where it needs to be and creating better red blood cells, ferritin levels are only going to rise significantly once the body has an adequate amount to start storing so I'd think that this shows he has capacity to up his dose?

Playing the long game as red blood cells take something like 150 days to replace so things are certainly moving in the right direction 🤗

[Noelnoel in reply to TiggerMe]

Thanks TiggerMe, I certainly hope so

Have laid down the law today and he’s agreed to speak with GP

[helvella Administrator Thyroid UK]

I don't want you to take this as advice, all I'm trying to do is point out a possibility.

Haem (heme) and other iron sources are absorbed by different pathways. So far as I know, it is perfectly reasonable to take both haem and another source at the same time. And - mostly - each will be processed and absorbed separately.

Obviously it is vital not to over-do it. But on grounds of cost, convenience, and even efficacy, it is worth a thought. (Efficacy will only be obvious by subsequent testing! I'm not saying it will be good - just we don't know unless tried.)

It is also important to find out why his iron level dropped and seems hard to restore. Indeed, this is vital. Aside from anything else, he will have a forever battle if the reason is never found.

helvella - Iron Document

This is a summary of what I have read up and found out about iron supplements over the past few years. I am not in any way medically trained. You are strongly encouraged to check every detail before making any decisions for yourself.

Last updated 02/04/2024

helvella.blogspot.com/p/hel...

[Noelnoel in reply to helvella]

Thank you helvella

I’ve dipped in and out of this today and it’s very helpful. He’s going to start he ball rolling to try to ascertain what’s going on. In the meantime he’s increasing his dose

I’m now wondering about alternating haem non haem …

[Bertiepuss]

I can't comment on 3 Arrows as I've not personally used it but to get my ferritin up from 8 to 80ug/L it's taken 7 months on about 170mg bisglycinate non-haem taken with vit c away from food and drink. That dose is based on my weight (60kg) so very individual and should not be taken as a 'correct' dose for anyone, just showing for comparison to the dose your husband was taking of non-haem originally - 50mg is just not very much. I was taking 40mg a couple of years ago and my ferritin didn't budge. Non-haem and haem is dosed differently so you can't compare one to the other, I think you already know this. Some do better on haem some on non-haem and some on a mixture of both. They each have pro's and con's.

I have been following the guides from the facebook group 'The Iron Protocol' which, like your reply from 3 Arrows , follows advice from The American Society of Haematology. I suspect your husband is just not taking enough but it's important to measure with a full iron panel to check a higher dose doesn't raise other values in the iron panel too much. I really recommend the FB group, it has given me so much more knowledge about iron deficiency and how to treat it effectively and safely. It goes though all the possible causes of iron deficiency which is important to look at to see what might be causing the problem so you can address the underlying cause. Also, how to correctly do a blood test to measure safe dosage limits for that individual so you take enough to raise levels but not too much that can be toxic.

[Noelnoel in reply to Bertiepuss]

Thank you for your recommendation. I’ll be joining the group if I can work out how. What’s the name of it

Well done for getting your levels up. What brand did you use

You’re right about the quantity, it’s looking as though it isn’t enough so he’ll be increasing it but also considering alternating haem with non haem

[Bertiepuss in reply to Noelnoel]

The Iron Protocol (For Iron Deficiency With and Without Anaemia)

I've went through a few but settled on Avvalabs Iron Bisglycinate 42mg and for vitamin C I use acerola cherry powder from Time Health. Both suit my stomach whereas I had problems with carbonyl iron and ferrous fumarate.

Don't supplement blindly, can do more harm than good, you really need to work out how much he needs based on his weight and it will be a different equation depending on whether haem or non-haem.

[Chunipet]

Hi, It might be worth trying the supplements every other day rather than every day. I’ve been reading on the internet about iron supplements causing the body to produce something called hipsidin(?) which can lower absorption of iron for up to 24 hours. To increase absorption the advice is to take it every other day in one dose.

[Noelnoel in reply to Chunipet]

Thank you for your suggestion Chunipet

Yes, I remember reading about this method somewhere, it might be worth a try. I think I also saw something about it today in the link helvella provided and I’ll be researching it but not sure about taking it all in one go now that he’s going to increase the dose

[helvella Administrator Thyroid UK in reply to Chunipet]

Hepcidin

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hepcidin

[Noelnoel in reply to helvella]

Hi helvella and thank you for the link

It was more the suggestion that alternate day iron dosing could be beneficial

[helvella Administrator Thyroid UK in reply to Noelnoel]

I just noticed and thought anyone coming along in future might find it useful.

[Noelnoel in reply to helvella]

Thank you. Useful

[Noelnoel in reply to helvella]

He’s doing an iron panel for our own use and while we wait 4 weeks(!) for an appointment

Which is better/more useful:

Monitor my health

Ferritin

Transferrin saturation

Haemoglobin

Blue horizon

Ferritin

Transferrin saturation

Total iron binding

Iron

Thanks

[helvella Administrator Thyroid UK in reply to Noelnoel]

I'd look at this:

Iron Tests

labtestsonline.org.uk/tests...

And ask if anyone else, like humanbean has any ideas.

Outside a superficial understanding of ferritin, I am woefully ignorant.

[Noelnoel in reply to helvella]

Thank you, I learnt a lot from that link. Will never remember it though! Have kept it to refer to

[Noelnoel in reply to helvella]

Will tagging her  humanbean alert her?

[helvella Administrator Thyroid UK in reply to Noelnoel]

Her!

Yes, it will.

[Noelnoel in reply to helvella]

Thank you for the correction

[Chunipet in reply to helvella]

Thank you. Interesting reading.

[Noelnoel]

Anyone care to comment on which would be the best test

Monitor my health

Ferritin

Transferrin saturation

Haemoglobin

Folate

Active B12

Blue horizon

Ferritin

Transferrin saturation

Total iron binding

Iron

Thanks