Please do bear with me. I may have written a lot but I think it is important to get a proper picture and to help me make an informed decision. Main question at the end. Thank you.
I was dx with hypothyroidism in 2016. Around the same ime I was dx with metabolic syndrome.
(Cholestrol ldl high and this is linked with thyroid issues, yes?)
Many years previous to this I was dx with fibromylagia. These last 5 yrs I have had ongoing dx of osteoarthritis in most my joints too.
And for 19 years have had more uti's than I I've had hot dinners! So yes, plenty of antibiotics over the years. Urology have ruled out anything urological causing it. Cystoscopy is clear. Waiting on gynae now.
I read somewhere that there can be a link with uti's too?
So...
I haven't felt well most of my life really because even before dx of things, from the age of 17 I've had back problems. Have suffered with a lot of pain in my life.
So I've educated myself over the years and more recently again thanks to the help of lovely folk on here too I am now convinced that me feeling like being on the edge of flu, fatigue, pain has always been down to my thyroid issues.
Yes fibro was dx but my doctor admitted to me that my thyroid being borderline for years could also be the reason. Then when I finally went underactive is when I've been my worse with the daily headaches, fatigue, flu like feelings, increased body pain.
I'm not saying I don't have fibro but I do feel that my thyroid being borderline for all those years has exacerbated it and these last 7 years have been my worst for that since hypothyroid.
I am on levo. Been on 150mcg for 3 yrs now.
I did post my recent blue horizon results.
And I wonder if I would feel better with added T3?
The results show my vitamins are bad and I am getting this sorted out this week with supplements and an overhaul of my diet.
Should I try first with vitamins and diet and see if I start to feel a little better or would people advise I do both?
If so, I would have to decrease my levo by how much and take how much T3? Just to start off with.
I know it is an individual thing but to start off first, what would people advise please?
Thank you all so much for reading and thank you in advance for any light you can shed on this mess for me.
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These are the important numbers: your FT4 is quite high, your FT3 is quite low - percentage-wise, there results should be closer together, with the FT3 slightly lower in range than the FT4. This shows that you're a poor converter. So, the short answer is: yes, taking T3 will probably make you feel better.
That said, thyroid hormone will not work efficiently if your nutrients aren't optimal. And your ferritin, vit D and B12 are all much too low. So, it would probably be a good idea to start working on those first.
I am getting this sorted out this week with supplements and an overhaul of my diet.
Diet, whilst important, is not the most important because, being hypo, you probably have low stomach acid making digestion and absorption of nutrients difficult. You're not so much what you eat, you're what you absorb. However, I would suggest avoiding, as much as possible, unfermented soy, artificial sweeteners and processed seed oils, like rapeseed and sunflower seed oils.
Buy your supplements, by all means, but chose them carefully. And don't start them all at once. Leave a gap of a couple of weeks between starting each one. Otherwise, you won't know what helps or what does the opposite!
But, you can start on that now, because it's going to take you a while to get hold of any T3, by whatever means, anyway.
If so, I would have to decrease my levo by how much and take how much T3? Just to start off with.
Personally, with your level of FT4, I wouldn't decrease my levo at this point. Taking T3 is going to reduce its level, anyway. And you can fine-tune it later, if necessary.
Yes fibro was dx but my doctor admitted to me that my thyroid being borderline for years could also be the reason.
I agree with your doctor. In fact, I would go even further and say 'of course you have fibro! you're undermedicated hypo'. Fibromyalgia is a syndrome, not a disease. A syndrome is a bunch of symptoms. Symptoms have to be caused by something, so knowing you're hypo the obvious cause would be that. Doctors diagnose with fibro when they have no idea what's wrong with you. Just to look as if they're doing something and get rid of you. It's what we call a 'dustbin' diagnosis.
I read somewhere that there can be a link with uti's too?
I've read that, too. That is to say you have an much increased risk of uti's when you're hypo. Many, many people on here suffer from repeated uti's.
(Cholestrol ldl high and this is linked with thyroid issues, yes?)
That is correct. High cholesterol is a hypo symptom caused by low T3.
I hope that answers your questions. My opinions, anyway, for what they're worth.
Your opinions and answers are highly appreciated. Once again, thank you so so much.
Now,.. what vitamin/supplement to start at for the first week.. I made notes from your response to my previous posts re vitamins so I am much better geared up now .
Personally, I would start with B12, which is so, so important in its own right. Sublingual methylcobalamin, 1000mcg daily for a couple of weeks. Then add in a good B complex.
Oh brilliant greygoose, thank you. I should continue with the folic acid 5mg which was prescribed and then after the 3 month prescription go onto a B complex, yes? But for now, any particular good b12 you recommend for now please? I was looking at thorne ferrasorb. Would this have enough of the b12 and ferritin? ( Sublingual methylcobalamin, 1000mcg daily ) I can see it online but I wonder if I has enough of everything which I seem to be lacking in so bad.
Thorne Ferrasorb? That is the craziest supplement I've seen yet! Should be called Thorne Nonabsorb. There is no point in adding B vitamins to an iron supplement because the iron will block the absorption of the vitamins. And there wouldn't be enough B12, anyway.
Iron should be taken two hours away from everything - four hours away from thyroid hormones - except vit C, which is essential for absorption of iron.
B vitamins need to be taken together - all of them. You only got three out of the eight in that supplement. No, definitely do not buy that. Anyway, it isn't sublingual. Sublingual is important to begin with because it bypasses the stomach. B12 often gets lost in the stomach.
There's not much choice when it comes to sublinual B12. There's Jarrows, but I find the tablets too big and uncomfortable under my tongue. And they take a long time to disolve. Or there's Solgar, which are much smaller, but difficult to find. And, I've just seen one by Vitamaze, but I haven't tried those.
Personally, I'd ditch the the folic acid. B12 should be treated before folate, anyway. Ditch it and start on the sublingual methylcobalamin on its own. Which is what I said above. Then add in the B complex. Forget the iron for now. That can come later.
No, get a separate B12. See the recommendation greygoose gave you for brands or the spray Beads has recommended.
Then, after two weeks add a B-complex. That one should have many different B vitamins in. But it should not have any iron in!!
Mine has; thiamine 110mg, riboflavin 10mg, niacin 150mg, pantothenic acid 110mg,B6 10mg, biotin 500microg, folate 400microg, b12 500microg, choline 50mg, inositol 50mg It’s by Pinktribe, but I think many people on here use different ones.
Vitamins are not all the same quality. At times I find it quite overwhelming. But just start with one. There’s lots of info if you search the older posts of this forum.
Thank you so much for your help. So appreciative. At least I now know what I am starting on first is the sublingual b12 and then after a good few weeks introduce a good B complex.
Yes, it can be rather overwhelming. But I really am getting on board better now.
I should get a Sublingual methylcobalamin which has a good amount of b12 in it. How much is enough do you really think?
1000 mcg.
As for the ferratin (b9) being low you advise for me to leave that for now and the other B numbers and introduce them.later in a good b complex
B9 is folate. Start taking a B complex, containing all the Bs, a couple of weeks after you start the B12, and take the two together. Thorne do a good B complex, Basic B, with nothing but B vits. Igennus is another one. There are others but I can't remember the names.
Ferritin is completely different. Ferritin is the protein that stores iron. Nothing to do with B vitamins. Best not to get the two muddled up:
That is the one I have purchased greygoose, Solar. 1000 b12 melt in mouth one. . I read it is cherry tasting, and to my surprise, it was quite cherry like
Not melt in the mouth - melt under the tongue. If it's not under the tongue you'll just swallow it as it melts and defeat the purpose of taking sublingual tablets.
Hi Greygoose, sorry to jump in for advice - I’ve made a mistake I’ve now realised and been taking B12 tablets not sublingual. I’ve also been taking pinktribe B complex. I’ve given them both a break at the moment as my urine was bright yellow and I’ve been anxious, hyped up and breathless walking up slopes. I’m now not knowing if I should start again but with sublingual B12 - do these all need taking for life?
Well, that's not exactly a mistake, it's just that you'd probably get more out of sublingual B12 than swallowing tablets. But you'll still get some.
Bright yellow urine often happens when taking a B complex. It's just the effect one of the B vits - can't remember which one off hand - has on some people. Nothing to worry about, and certainly not responsible for your anxiety or breathlessness.
Most hypos do find they need to take B vits for life, yes. But, once you've got your B12 up to over 550, a B complex should be enough for a maintenance dose.
ok thanks Greygoose I’ll re-start them,use up the tablets then next time get sublingual. Would you mind looking at my last bloods after 8 weeks on 50 mcg T4 and 10 mcg T3. I’ve now been on the T4/T3 for a week over three months but haven’t been re-tested yet.
TSH 0.70 ,I’m/L (0.27-4.2)
Serum free T4 10.8 pmol/L (12.0-22.0)
Free T3 5.0 (3.1-6.8)
Are these levels ok? Thank you for any advice as my GP hasn’t got a clue - Endo saw these results and gave me a further 3 months T3 - same doses T4/T3
Sounds like the endo hasn't got a clue, either! FT4 is below range and FT3 about mid-range. Not many people would be happy with those levels. But, how do you feel? That's the most important question.
Might be a good idea to write your own post about this, get more varied opinions. Tacking questions onto someone else's thread tends to get over-complicated.
I agree with greygoose:Get your vitamins sorted to give your body the best viable of absorbing the thyroid meds you're currently taking (thyroxine).
Given your relative fT4 to fT3 levels, T3 will help.
A quick calculation to give you an idea of your conversion ability is fT3 ÷ fT4, when not on meds containing T3, and the results are in pmol/L. Your conversion rate is 4.51÷19.3 = 0.23. Which puts you in the category of a poor converter according to Midgley et al in this research 'variation in the biochemical response to l-thyroxine therapy and relationship with peripheral thyroid hormone conversion efficiency'. ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...
With regard to UTIs. Yes, they may well be linked to hypothyroidism. I found this article interesting. medscape.com/viewarticle/99...
So one thing you could try is Vagifem. My NHS GP prescribes it for me and it has helped.
Also, if you are post menopausal, you could ask to go on HRT. Bio-identical version Estradiol gel and Utrogestan, also prescribed by my NHS GP.
Thank you very much. It makes such a difference to have other a lot of people offering advise with correlates and makes me feel a little less foggy with it all. Up until last week I had no idea until wise peeps on here like you could see from my results that I'm not a good converter.
That along has made much more sense to me now. I will look at your links. Thank you.
It feels overwhelming at times but I'm getting a handle on all this much better than I ever have. Thanks
Because the processing is horrendous, using all sorts of horrible chemicals. Google it, there are a few good videos around that show the process. Far, far better to use something like cold-pressed olive oil where they just crush the olives and the oil runs out naturally.
I thought I had posted a link to a video once, but can't find it. However, I did find this:
Super! Thank you so much, once again. It is all getting clearer and clearer to me because of all the valuable advise from the experts on here. Thank you
Same and advice from SD GG and so may others so valuable too. Take it slow step by step, don’t change too many things at once. Ask everyone here which type of which vitamin they get on with as you decide to order / add them, saves a lot of wasted money. 🌱
Whatever you decide, try only one thing at a time. What I can share is something I often read on the forum is that vitamins need to be optimal before trying T3.
I had years of aches and pains , when I was undiagnosed. Got to the stage where my hands were so weak I couldn’t do up shoe laces. At 45 I was looking to buy slip on shoes or ones with Velcro closers. My grip is back and most of my aches and pains gone. The pains that remain are simply age related wear and tear.
I also had YEARS of repeated urine infections that were treated with antibiotics which left me open to thrush which then left me even more exposed to further urine infections - a vicious circle.
With advice from the forum I balanced my thyroid medication and vitamins to optimal.
As for urine infections- there most certainly is a link. I found a natural alternative that I honestly couldn’t believe worked as well as it did. It was only out of desperation I tried some.
So I stopped taking antibiotics and started using D-mannose capsules (health food shop/online) for any suspected early signs of urine problems, but I have only taken as a precaution in the last few years.. I’ve not actually had a urine infection for a few years now.
I think dumping ABs (and using D-mannose) and getting thyroid hormones and vitamins balanced have combined to create this effect .
ThNk you for your response. I read on another post that D-mannose is good for helping to keep uti's at bay. And from your reply here then IAm definitely going to get myself this. Any one in particular?
I find swallowing pills a bit tricky so I buy most preparations as capsules. D-mannose comes as pills, capsules and loose powder. Whatever suits, but personally I wouldn’t be sucked into buying a really expensive combo with cranberry or anything else as the plain D-mannose is the active ingredient.
I was away once and desperate to take some D-mannose (just in case). The only thing the health food shop had was a combo - ridiculously expensive and no more effective, but I had no choice. 🙄
I used to take a probiotic in between the antibiotics (ABs) to try to offset their deleterious effects. You are right they are so potent and they can help the digestive system overall. Actually I may get some - constipation still dogs me occasionally. The upheaval of house move has upset my eating patterns- need to get back on track. 😬👍
D Mannose life saver for me as well. Particularly good this brand. It’s q a bit more expensive but was one of the first to market and so a long history of people using it. It’s naturally sourced from birch trees. Waterfall D-Mannose 100 x 500mg... amazon.co.uk/dp/B06XXH7RK4?...
I take with this probiotic. Again this is used a lot by people and a good brand. Bio-Kult Pro-Cyan Advanced... amazon.co.uk/dp/B009T71JXW?...
Also someone recently put me on to this - Uva Ursi. She had years of resistant UTIs to the point she couldn’t be far from a loo for more than half an hour and this has made a big difference. I have only tried it for the most recent infection I had and not sure what difference it made as was taking the other two things. But maybe this is something to consider if you have chronic UTIs
I too have tried Uva Ursi , but to be honest, though it worked once it didn’t seem to in the long run for me but the D-mannose absolutely did 🤗
I think the big factor for me was breaking the urine infection-antibiotics-thrush cycle and D-mannose taken at the first ‘tingle’. D-mannose is just a game changer.
I’m going to have a look at the probiotic- recently moved and my routine has been disrupted and need to get regular again (oh heck!) 😂
Have you looked up embedded uti? It's the same infection you have over the years and it's embedded in your bladder. I have had it for nearly 5 years always suffered from uti. The treatment is hard as it's high dose longterm antibiotics. I use D mannose sweetcures one all the time. A woman probiotic and a normal probiotic as well. A Dr can prescribe Hiprex which really helps people who can't tolerate antibiotics.
Good morning. My journey with Hashimotto's began early part of 2021 following diagnosis. I have learnt so much from this site, which drove me to maximise my essential vitamins and have full iron panel to understand my situation. It also made me realise that medication alone was not the anwser to thriving.
I do hope my journey is of some interest and a beacon of hope 😀
The pain, the fatigue, the malaise I endured was crippling, I was off work with a sinificant period of sick leave as I could not function. However 2.5 years later I feel lucky that today I am so much better. I am active with 3 x 45min focused gym sessions building flexibily, mobility, strength and cardio health for the past 11 months not a chance prior!
Each of our journeys are different and recently I have realised for me that my gut health had been paramount to managing my condition. My gut health was tested by Healthpath. It was dire but no suprise so was my diet, I realised this contributed to my condition. I have now changed my diet to whole foods, better fats, high fibre and femented foods daily.
This has profoundly impacted on my diet choices. I have now removed all ultra processed food and gluten. I have removed foods that cause blood glucose spikes or I combine with foods that dampen the spike and I opt for healthier fats. In joining the Zoe programme and following the Glucose Godess. I have elevated my success. My gut microbiome is now deemed excellant following recent testing and I can tell the difference. No constipation and twice daily perfect poops (too much info sorry 😅)
In turn I have now reduced internal inflamation which I found contributed to my pain and fatigue.
I eat homemade fermented foods daily from sauerkraut to Dr Davies SIBO yogurt (an amazing game changer)
Whist the jury is out in intermitent fasting I do adopt this. I am able to adapt this when I feel it is placing too much stress in my body. Generally I eat between 10am and 6pm. This has been a life changer in combination with all other lifestyle changes.
My vitamins are consistently high up in range and as mentioned in this forum this has helped hugely.
Recent testing with medichecks had all my results in green. I did notice I had felt improved just prior to the test and I was surprised to see both antibodies not just in range but well below. I am no expert but i do feel with each change I have made i have felt a layer of ill health symptoms being stripped away and reducing my antibodies was key.
My message is about how important all the advice on here is but for me not one piece was the golden chalice but a combination that together provided the pieces of the jigsaw of health.
Adopting the above is also positively helping me through menopause 😁 I am currently cold turkey on this one.
My daily fibre is between 30-40g the odd day falls below. I drink pleanty of water and herbal tea as fibre without fluids is not great.I also had a DNA test looking at the methylation cycles, which also showed problematic mutations *we all have them 😳
I now supplement with glutathione, vit c, PQQ, zinc and magnesium.
I did notice a big difference on toilet habits when I stopped glutothione so I am more strict on taking that one.
Removing ultra processed foods and reducing processed foods has been amazing. Fermented foods just seem to wake up the whole digestive track. Kefir is the one to kick start the morning.
My sluggish system contributed to my fatigue, brain fog and heavy feeling.
I do still have days when I get out of my normal routine, went on holiday recently and struggled for 2 days with getting enough fibre... funny I felt my body craving my stable of chick peas, black beans and lentils 🤣
Simple swaps have worked for me. No bread, pasta and rice. Plenty of pulses and legumes dressed up in a rainbow of veg and fruit.
Herbs and especially spices have help stimulate the digestive track.
Completely offside, i have been listening to functional health practitions on oral health and its impact on inflamation, disease and digestion. Your microbiome begins there. This is now my next epic adventure. Being born in the 60's i found dentists to be one stuff of nightmares. So much so my last visit was 17 years ago. I went last week not bad news but will require a little bit of TLC on the gums. I am waiting with bated breath to see if this has an anticipated postive impact. X
Thanks so much. Going to look glutathione. Can you recommend a particular brand? My diet is largely unprocessed food, I’ve tried adding in LEPICOL and it has varying degrees of success. Maybe I need to focus on pulses as you have. I have some fermented foods, but again I could be more consistent. Re oral health, I use a toothpaste by luvbiotics which claims to have probiotics in it that are good for the mouth. I found that I get less of a buildup of plaque on my tongue. It doesn’t have fluoride in it which I think is good as fluoride is anti Thyroid.
I bought mine from pureclinica. Healthpath recommended lipolife. Glutothione and a seperate vit c. Pureclinica were combined and double strength. Hope that helps x
I have made some of the changes you mention, gluten-free, always prepared most of our food, optimising vitamins and minerals probiotics from time to time and things were ticking along quite nicely. Since moving, I have lost my routine. I need to get back on track to incorporate more changes to get my bowels back regular - reading your reply I feel newly inspired ! 😂👍.
Hi there, Thank you for sharing some of your story. I have a far way to go to get on top of all this it would seem. I know all our stories differ and each to their own with their treatment. In time I know that I will get my diet into a better place, hopefully.
My pleasure it took me time to get here.. small changes, some worked others didn't and listening to the wise on the forum gave me a firm foundation. It is a game of inches 😁
Few thoughts . Perhaps your borderline could have been very low Iodine with Reverse T3. Get all forms of Soy out of your diet * great site agutsygirl.com/2019/05/06/73-soy-sources-and-alternate-names. Make a huge difference
Hi, i felt i’ll for 14 yrs always blamed my UAT then in april i was diagnosed with low iron levels and put on 400mg a day of ferrous sulphate, now 6 months later i’ve never felt so well the best i’ve felt in 14 yrs! i did take liothyronine but it only helped me for a short while, for me it was al about my iron levels. so taking extra vitamins and minerals is a good idea, hope this helps?
Lots of great advice already given.Just wanted to add I suffered with repeated UTIs for a whole. Mine were caused by a chemically induced supressed estrogen. I found a great bit of research talking about cranberries creating a hostile environment which prevented UTIs getting a grip. Cranberry juice isn't concentrated enough. They found 1200 mg of cranberry extract worked well. I took it for a while and my UTIs stopped reoccurring. Amazing. At the time my doctor was on about putting me on continuous antibiotics. Didn't need to after I started the Cranberry tablets they have never reoccurred. Worth a try.
Thank you for your input with this. I am going to try the D-mannose and see how I go with that. It would be so nice to get the uti side of things treated better.
There's just so much but I am starting small. With Sublingual b12 and D-mannose and then introduce b complex and then look at my vitamin D, zinc.
I then might be needing a little more help because of the menapause symptoms but I may start feeling quite a lot better which hopefully will mean I can handle the menopause better.
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My opinions, anyway, for what they're worth. 
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