Weight loss and Ketogenic diets

[Luckyclaire]

Hi Team,I'm curious about people experience with Ketogentic diets?

I've let medication settle for four months now, and can see that much needed weight loss will be a grind . 😐

I have read about Ketogentic diets and was generally sceptical about dietary restriction. First line information often states its not suitable for Hypothyroidic individuals, and with some digging it's that the liver needs carbs to make T4 into T3.

A drop in T3 is well documented result of ketosis.

I've read some "online specialists" be cautious but accepting it works for some and really not good for others. Often say the weight loss benefits do outweigh the risks if you take it carefully.

I've seen others be much more positive that you can use ketosis with hypothroid illness. They often suggest "Carb backloading" or "Cycling Keto" as the solution.

I've seen others pushing that the drop in T3 is a natural proventative strategy of the body to protect muscle mass, so the body uses fat stores rather than boby protein for energy.

I am interested in whether any of you have tried Keto, and what adaptions you might have made, plus anyone's experience of it not being so good for them.

I wouldn't need to buy anything, the recommended food is all favs of mine. I'd just have to put the GF bread down, up my fats and oils and stop adding a few veg and grains I like...or eat them on the weekends only

Your, curious

[RedApple]

'I have read about Ketogentic diets and was generally sceptical about dietary restriction.'

According to Dr Myhill, who's a long term advocate of the ketogenic diet :

Ketosis is an often misunderstood subject. Its presence is thought to be equal to starvation or a warning sign of something going wrong in your metabolism. But nothing could be farther from the truth, , except if you are an ill-treated type 1 diabetic person.[1] Ketones – contrary to popular belief and myth – are a much needed and essential healing energy source in our cells that come from the normal metabolism of fat.

The entire body uses ketones in a more safe and effective way than the energy source coming from carbohydrates – sugar AKA glucose. Our bodies will produce ketones if we eat a diet devoid of carbs or a low carb diet (less than 60 grams of carbs per day).[2] By eating a very low carb diet or no carbs at all (like a caveman) we become keto-adapted.

Read the full article here drmyhill.co.uk/wiki/Ketogen...

[Luckyclaire in reply to RedApple]

Thanks so much Red Apple for the informative link. I read half of it, but will finish it later - work calls!

I am less sceptical now I've studied a lot already, I'm just looking for some real experience of the diet with Hypothroid life.

So far no information on any effects on T4 t3 in the article. Does it go there I wonder 🤔. I fully believe there is no one size fits all approach with food, but interestingly I think I ate quite a similar diet for the first ten years I was GF free (I was thin and well then), as the bread was terrible and I was lazy about cooking up rice and grains. I had a low carb diet, although not as low as keto.

[RedApple in reply to Luckyclaire]

Dr Myhill is fully aware of thyroid issues (she has a book on this too), so if she doesn't mention a problem, maybe it's not an issue. My diet is also relatively low carb, but not keto, so I can't speak from personal experience. I'll also be interested to see what other members here say. 😊

[arTistapple]

I tried this back in the day. However I never could find out if or when I was in ketosis. Dr. Myhill gives some very good accounts of how to measure and the buts and whys. I lost heart because my testing never showed I had entered ketosis. I might get around to it again when I nail GF which I am experimenting with now. The cooking and replacements necessary for a full change over. So far some surprising recipes are possible.

[seveneleven]

Just be aware that we need carbs to convert T4 to T3, so need to keep an eye on conversion. Would say if trying it that it's better to be on the upper end of acceptable carb intake within the diet. I have seen the idea of cycling before, and that seems a bit more sensible than trying to maintain permanent ketosis, which is very hard to do. Also, keto is a big no if you have adrenal issues like low or high cortisol, and worth knowing that it can actually seem to induce more serious HPA axis dysfunction if you are on the brink or tend that way. I tried it years ago and it was a disaster - blood sugar didn't like it, and I struggled to eat enough because it completely killed my appetite, and it definitely worsened what I now know was plummeting cortisol. So that's another thing to keep in mind, that you need to stay on top of quantities because it's a lot easier to eat less, and you need to maintain a critical amount of caloric intake to keep your thyroid and adrenal systems happy. I do wonder if the same people who benefit from keto are the ones who can comfortably do fasting without becoming hangry and shaky nightmares (I am not one of those people - fasting is similarly bad for low cortisol).

[Luckyclaire]

I'm glad you bought up those points, it is clear from the research that those with adrenal issues should absolutely not put their body under this additional stress.I would have/ did ruled it out for me as an extra stress my recovering body doesn't need, but on researching the actual food and best times to eat, it closely tracks my personal preferences. The body sometimes knows, but I am cautious. I'm someone who can easily 'fast'. It's just too low calories intake is a disaster for me...

I am thinking to eat a low carb diet rather than a keto one ie not so extreme and am considering 'Cycle keto' if it feels like it might be okay

[seveneleven in reply to Luckyclaire]

That sounds sensible. I always tend to think less drastic is better with diet, so that's good if it matches somewhat with what you already eat. I'd kind of agree that low carb is safer than keto, both in terms of the potential stress on the body and also just effort involved and being able to sustain it.

[FancyPants54]

I would not touch that kind of diet with a barge pole. It's not natural for one thing. But the other is that I tried it and made myself very sick.

I have always struggled with weight. I was not diagnosed hypo at this point, but I might well have been so. One day I decided to really set too. I read up about the various diets around at the time, Wheatbelly, Keto, Paleo, Atkins. I love meat so I went with Paleo and I found it mostly easy to do and mostly it didn't make me angry. And I lost a lot of weight, exercising as I did it. I got to my lowest weight in a couple of decades and because I was also fit by then too, I looked in great shape and I felt good. I had a bit less than a stone to go to my goal weight.

And then I stopped loosing. I tried various things but was frustrated by the refusal of the scale to move. If only I had realised then that I was probably just at my ideal weight and stopped there. But I wanted that goal weight. So I switched to Keto diet and I felt like I'd been hit by a truck. The diet groups had warned me I might feel like I had the flu for the first 2 weeks but then it would miraculously just melt away and I'd feel great and start loosing weight. The initial period of feeling like I had the flu never stopped. I could barely drag myself around and I felt awful. Lifeless, so tired, sick, sallow, you name it, I looked or felt it. In the end I realised it was not going to help me and reversed back out. Only I could not get back out and from there I improved a bit but never felt good again. Periomenopause hit me, my weight came back on, my energy never improved. Eventually I was diagnosed hypo and from then until now (about 9 years) I have never felt well. I have not had an ounce of spare energy. Going up stairs is a feat too far most days. If I don't remember to bring it down with me in the morning I probably won't go back for whatever I forgot.

My weight is now totally out of control. I can't do anything about it. I have so much fluid stored. Thyroid meds don't ever seem to work properly for me. I can't exercise anymore, I'm lucky the HRT gave me my brain back so I can at least read a book again.

I might try a lower carb diet in future if I get enough energy to cook again. But I would never touch very low carb or Keto.

If you try it, be very careful of those feelings of being ill at the start. Don't let them continue for very long at all.

[Luckyclaire]

Thanks so much for your experience. I'm sorry you are feeling so low now, it must be very hard. I'm so cautious I don't think I would do a diet that made me feel ill - I would immediately eat a sweet potato if my symptoms alarmed me! I hope you feel some improvement soon, and can enjoy the simple things again.

[Blissful]

For me, intermittent fasting works incredibly well - my stomach is empty for 14-16 hours (breakfast 10.30/11.30 depending on season, main meal 4-6pm. Often a glass of milk and biscuit around 8pm).

I eat exactly what I fancy - I really enjoy French influenced food, grow most of my own veg and herbs and have infinite patience to make proper stock etc. I am retired and a long time out of the rat race so I have time to do all that but I also passionately believe in "quality versus quantity" - (sadly) in these days, that's an even more difficult thing to juggle.

[Danielj1]

I can only agree with the comments above - if you have cortisol issues then keto simply makes things ever so much worse.

Having spent a ton of time over the past year with a sports nutritionist, there is a middle way to get the benefits of lower carb and manage hormones better.

What I do now is time restrict eating between 9-5 (so called 16-8 with no evening snacks now), focus majority of carbs before lunch when pancreas is more effective with insulin and processing sugar spikes, and ensure I have sufficient protein in each meal of the day to meet dietary guidelines. Took me many years to work out the balance but it now works a treat. I am also starting to restrict certain foods that cause inflammation and that helps too. Berberine supplements have also been a great help as research suggests they reduce inflammation and inprove insulin resistance...good luck!

[ShannenRosey]

I love keto. I have lost 40 pounds on it so far, but to solve any issues, I cycle keto. I have carb up days every so pounds I lose. Sometimes every 10 or 20 pounds I carb up and calorie up, and I’ve never had any issue doing this. I also do intermittent fasting and eat my heavy most meal first. Some days I eat 1400 cals sometimes 1500 and 1600 and cycle calories. On carb up days and calorie up days I eat a lot more. Never had any issues. It’s SUPER important to eliminate stress because weight loss itself is stressful on the body even though it’s a very good thing in the long run. Take multivitamins, magnesium, drink plenty of water, and make sure your vitamin D is up to par. I cannot stress this enough if you decide to try keto.

[RedApple in reply to ShannenRosey]

ShannenRosey, Do you have a diagnosed thyroid condition, for which you are taking long term medication?

[ShannenRosey in reply to RedApple]

I do….. I mean it’s the only thing that’s worked for me. I also have other health issues. This has eliminated my high blood sugars high blood pressure and I can walk without feeling like I’m dying or suffocating on my own fat. People have to find what works for them and their medication, but this has worked for me when everything else has failed.

[Luckyclaire in reply to ShannenRosey]

Thanks so much for your reply! That is so good to read, and as you say, we have to find what works for us. I did try it, and was doing great for about ten days, but I then started to feel really ill, like hypothyroidism returned like a sledgehammer. I eased up and tweeky to a more low carb diet, not aiming for keto. I also have changed to a much more active job. I'm getting slow consistent weight loss. Very slow, but better than before. I've lost about 10kg (22lb) since diagnosis, 5kg from water retention reversal, and 5kg from diet. A fair bit more to go!

[ShannenRosey in reply to Luckyclaire]

That is great!!! That’s basically what I do I cycle from keto to low to carb. I go back and forth between the two. I’’m so sensitive to carbs it’s ridiculous. I think it’s my diabetes that does it to me :(. I’m glad we both found something that will work for us