HRT Woes: Hi everyone, I've been taking HRT... - Thyroid UK

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HRT Woes

Serendipitious profile image
17 Replies

Hi everyone,

I've been taking HRT for almost 4 months now. Two pumps of Oestrogel every morning applied to my arms, one Utrogestan capsule each night and one Vagirux tablet inserted twice a week.

I'm experiencing a number of issues:

1. I'm feeling very depressed. Far more depressed and unhappy than I ever have done before. Whilst my personal circumstances may be contributing towards this I feel its far worse than it was previously.

2. Somebody here was talking about the green or orange squares on the front of the bottle of Besins Oestrogel. I'm now on my 4th bottle and for the first time I can see a green square and not a yellow. Has anybody noticed anything different?

3. Really tired of applying the gel, sometimes I forget. Has anybody switched from gel to patches? What is the equivalent of two pumps? Sometimes I wonder if two pumps is too much too. Does anybody take one?

4. My sleep seems to be getting worse again. I take longer to fall asleep but I am also wide awake at 4-5am and cannot get back to sleep again.

5. At times my appetite goes through the roof. I can see my legs are getting fatter. I do have more energy than before which is good as I experienced low energy for years. However, cant seem to control the appetite at times. It seems cyclical.

6. Still have lots of brain fog.

7. Dry skin and excessive hair loss.

Would appreciate any thoughts. Thanks.

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Serendipitious
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17 Replies
SarahJane1471 profile image
SarahJane1471

menopause is c..p! Have you considered Utrogestan vaginally? You insert every other night. I found Utrogestan kept me awake ( even with sleeping pills). It also gave me nightmares. It was alot better when I changed to vaginal use.

I use estrogel and I remember years ago there was a big thing about the different coloured squares. Some people could feel a difference, but I didn’t 🤷‍♀️.

Now if you are going to use patches ( which I used to) then ensure it’s Estrodot on the prescription as it’s the smallest and stickiest patch. 2 pumps =50mg patch.

I swapped to gel after a few years because I was already on maximum patch and needed more gel (5pumps) to relieve symptoms.

Oh and Utrogestan can make you depressed.

Try vaginally it’s less harsh on the body

It’s all about balance 💪

Serendipitious profile image
Serendipitious in reply toSarahJane1471

Thanks I switched to vaginal again since you suggested it. Woke up feeling anxious and depressed this morning yet again and even had a go at my mum last night 🙈 How long did it take for you to notice a difference with taking Utrogestan vaginally? Sometimes I think it might be better absorbed as it doesn't go through the liver. I'll persevere with it but having no applicator is also a pain.

So does the patch not give people more than 2 pumps worth? Thanks for letting me know about the conversion.

SarahJane1471 profile image
SarahJane1471 in reply toSerendipitious

you can have 100 mg patch which is the equivalent of 4pumps of gel which is supposed to be the highest dose but many people need to take more than that. Utrogestan vaginally is supposed to give you less side effects. I think you could persevere using vaginally for a couple of weeks at least. If you are on 2 pumps of gel you could also increase that to 3 then even 4.

Try looking at Balance the menopause app and website by Dr Louise Newson. She has a private clinic in Solihull or ask your GP to refer you to a menopause specialist. There are many other ways to take HRT. Don’t give up yet!

Don’t worry my mum drives me bonkers at times 🙈

Serendipitious profile image
Serendipitious in reply toSarahJane1471

Thanks I really appreciate the help.

Just wondered, do you know if you can use the Utrogestan internally and Vagifem at the same time?

SarahJane1471 profile image
SarahJane1471 in reply toSerendipitious

Is Vagifem estrogen?

RedApple profile image
RedAppleAdministrator in reply toSarahJane1471

Yes 😊

SarahJane1471 profile image
SarahJane1471 in reply toRedApple

I can’t see a problem then. BUT. Im not a Dr. I would call my pharmacy or ask on Menopause Matters forum

Serendipitious profile image
Serendipitious in reply toSarahJane1471

sorry I meant Vagirux, it’s also oestrogen but different packaging

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator

how much levothyroxine are you currently taking

HRT frequently results in needing dose increase in levothyroxine

Do you always get same brand levothyroxine at each prescription

What vitamin supplements are you currently taking

previous post showed poor conversion

Bloods should be retested 6-8 weeks after each dose change or brand change in levothyroxine

 

For full Thyroid evaluation you need TSH, FT4 and FT3

plus both TPO and TG thyroid antibodies tested at least once

Very important to test vitamin D, folate, ferritin and B12 at least once year minimum

About 90% of primary hypothyroidism is autoimmune thyroid disease, usually diagnosed by high thyroid antibodies 

Autoimmune thyroid disease with goitre is Hashimoto’s

Autoimmune thyroid disease without goitre is Ord’s thyroiditis. 

Both are autoimmune and generally called Hashimoto’s.

Low vitamin levels are extremely common when hypothyroid, especially with autoimmune thyroid disease (Hashimoto’s or Ord’s thyroiditis)

20% of autoimmune thyroid patients never have high thyroid antibodies and ultrasound scan of thyroid can get diagnosis 

In U.K. medics hardly ever refer to autoimmune thyroid disease as Hashimoto’s (or Ord’s thyroiditis)

Recommended on here that all thyroid blood tests early morning, ideally just before 9am and last dose levothyroxine 24 hours before test 

This gives highest TSH, lowest FT4 and most consistent results. (Patient to patient tip)

Private tests are available as NHS currently rarely tests Ft3 or all relevant vitamins

List of private testing options and money off codes

thyroiduk.org/getting-a-dia...

Medichecks Thyroid plus antibodies and vitamins

medichecks.com/products/adv...

Blue Horizon Thyroid Premium Gold includes antibodies, cortisol and vitamins

bluehorizonbloodtests.co.uk...

If you can get GP to test vitamins then cheapest option for just TSH, FT4 and FT3

£29 (via NHS private service ) and 10% off down to £26.10 if go on thyroid uk for code

thyroiduk.org/getting-a-dia...

monitormyhealth.org.uk/

Monitor My Health also now offer thyroid and vitamin testing, plus cholesterol and HBA1C for £65 

(Doesn’t include thyroid antibodies) 

monitormyhealth.org.uk/full...

10% off code here 

thyroiduk.org/getting-a-dia...

Only do private testing early Monday or Tuesday morning. 

Watch out for postal strikes, probably want to pay for guaranteed 24 hours delivery 

Link about thyroid blood tests

thyroiduk.org/getting-a-dia...

Link about Hashimoto’s

thyroiduk.org/hypothyroid-b...

Symptoms of hypothyroidism 

thyroiduk.org/wp-content/up...

Come back with new post once you get results

Serendipitious profile image
Serendipitious in reply toSlowDragon

I'm on 75/100. Brand is usually the same. I don't have test results to hand since the switch. I had to do a blood draw at the local hospital as requested by the endo. Thanks for the advice. As soon as I have results I'll post them here.

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator in reply toSerendipitious

have you retested since starting HRT

If not you need to get FULL thyroid and vitamin testing done

ALWAYS test early morning and last dose levothyroxine 24 hours before test

Tlflom profile image
Tlflom

I do an estradiol patch 2x per week, progesterone pill at night, and a estrodiol ring in the vagina that lasts 3 months. As far as the patch goes compared mg of active ingredient. Personally, I would get the help of an ob/gyn or endocrinologist for the Rx change.

TiggerMe profile image
TiggerMeAmbassador

I didn't like the slimy gel you could try Lenzetto spray?

Lack of estrogen had me awake early, often woken by some awful dread... dry skin sounds more likely under medicated thyroid, I was a scaly creature when my T3 was low

Serendipitious profile image
Serendipitious in reply toTiggerMe

I started to sleep relatively better when I started everything but now my sleep has gotten worse again. I wake up every morning at 4-5am feeling horribly anxious and worried, like today. I did also switch from oral to vaginal Utrogestan 3 days ago. Not sure how long I can put up with doing this. Not having a custom applicator doesn't help either. I'm not sure if the switch has had an effect either. Yes skin feels incredibly parched.

I've not tried anything other than Oestrogel, waiting for to dry as a type 🙄

TiggerMe profile image
TiggerMeAmbassador in reply toSerendipitious

Lenzetto is a quick squirt on the forearm and dries within 30 seconds thankfully, yes horrible vivid, realistic dreams of something I should have done or done differently... gaslighting really....... and the anxiety stayed with me for hours

Where are you with your Thyroid levels? Everything crashed for me after the first covid jab and had to increase all hormones.... our immune system runs on estrogen

I was losing lots of hair when my vit/min levels were low, this stopped when I sorted out my supplements, adding in amino acids seemed to help as I wasn't getting enough protein at the time

TiggerMe profile image
TiggerMeAmbassador in reply toSerendipitious

Sounds like you might benefit from a little raise in both thyroid and estrogen... test results will shine a light on your thyroid, it's not unusually to need a tweak as things find their new level and balance out 🤗

radd profile image
radd

Serendipitous,

There was talk of the different coloured squares on here after lock-down when there was shortage of Oestrogel and we had European forms given instead but I never noticed any difference.

I too got fed up with the gel having to dry and switched to Lenzetto which is a more concentrated oestrogen spray and dries much quicker. Just one spray equals 2 pumps of gel. 

I have previously tried 1 gel pump and upped it to two for no reason other than advice from my practitioner regarding my bones, but honestly don’t feel any different. 

I don’t think Utrogestan is licensed for vaginal use in the UK? but there are practitioners prescribing it that way. I have read when both hormones are used vaginally it is better to use oestrogen in the morning (as its thicker and lines the vaginal walls) and utrogestan at night (as its thinner and lying down helps keep it in!). 

Have you thought of getting testosterone levels checked and maybe adding a little if low? 

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