HRT or gluten side effects. Headache & nausea.

[PixieElv]

hi there

Does anyone get a bad headache at the back of their neck about 1 -1:30 hours after applying Oestrogel? and about 20 min after eating bread?

i wake up feeling ok, apply Oestrogel and bam! About 60-90 min later I have a banging headache at the bottom of my skull/neck and I feel nauseous. That’s also about 20 min after eating breakfast.

I went from 4 pumps to 3 pumps about 2 weeks ago.

I also started eating gluten again. I’m NOT coeliac and I’ve got a B pituitary gland disorder (NOT thyroid/hashis) so gluten should not make any difference.

thank you

[radd]

PixieElv,

I always get a headache when introducing hormonal meds. Just started on testosterone and had a headache for three days!

That's quite a heavy dose of oestrogen you are applying. Are you taking any utrogestan to oppose negative oestrogenic effects?

[PixieElv in reply to radd]

I’ve got the mirena so all good on the utrogrstan. But 4 pumps down to 3 is just the next dose down?

[radd in reply to PixieElv]

PixieElv,

But is it enough? I understand the Marina secretes less as time goes on. Also I’m not sure of the progesterone amounts but was it enough to start with against 4 pumps of Oestrogel?

Utrogestan is usually doubled with more than two pumps. My endo has just doubled mine with 2 pumps to help me with sleep and it has in the main. 

The other consideration is magnesium as the higher O & P is, the more magnesium loss, resulting in loss within the cerebral vascular smooth muscle cells that may spasm. Carolyn Dean of The Magnesium Miracle says this is why women get PMT headaches and migraines. I used to and never knew why. It was horrible and my Mum just used to say unhelpfully ‘It’s your hormones Darling’ as if we were expected to just put up with it 🤷‍♀️.

[Serendipitious in reply to radd]

radd,

Interesting point you make about doubling Utrogestan after 2 pumps of oestrogel. I saw my GP last week and she only considered changing me to an oral oestrogen because apparently according to my own blood results my oestrodiol levels are very low. However, since upping oestrogel from 2 to 3 pumps I now have terrible insomnia.

Is there any documentation you can provide to support this? I’ve also since yesterday switched from Oestrogel to Lenzetto and at the moment I feel sleep is even worse. Still on one Utrogestan.

[radd in reply to Serendipitious]

S,

Documentation for ?

[Serendipitious in reply to radd]

radd,

Sorry I wasn’t clear. I suppose I was after something I could say or present to my GP to convince her that I may need more Utrogestan. Thanks.

[radd in reply to Serendipitious]

Oh that’s easy. Just look at official guidance for dosing. Louise Newman will have it (Balance) or even NHS website might. Am out at the mo but will also look later.

[radd in reply to Serendipitious]

Sorry S, but I was wrong. Utrogestan is only licenced for 100mg daily continuous use or 200mg if used cyclically. Therefore, it is up to your GP if he wanted to go off license which I assume only the 'specialists' do 🤷‍♀️.

I have read latest thought is to raise progesterone inline with oestrogen to prevent oestegenic tendencies.

[Serendipitious in reply to radd]

radd,

That's what I thought, thanks for letting me know.

[PixieElv in reply to radd]

the train of thought about the mirena is a good one. I hadn’t considered that. I’ll discuss with the gynie. loads of people mention progesterone and that might be the thing that isn’t enough in my case I don’t sleep well at all…

I was on the 100mg patches before but didn’t absorb them properly

[radd in reply to PixieElv]

PixieElv,

Another reason for checking out that O & P balance …..  histamine does good things like helps immunity, sleep, digestion, acts as neurotransmitter, but I’ve just been checking out hay fever remedies, and it led onto oestrogen headaches. 

Histamine is contained in mast cells that bind to IgE receptors but mast cells also have receptors for progesterone, cortisol and particularly oestrogen. The binding of oestrogen & cortisol stimulates histamine receptors to release histamine which can drive PMT symptoms or those associated with high levels of oestrogen. 

Oestrogen also down regulates the DAO enzyme that helps control excess histamine, whereas progesterone stabilises mast cells, up-regulates DAO and reduces histamine. You might find avoiding histamine-high foods helpful in eliminating headaches too if this reasoning is applicable to you.

This link isn't what I was reading re hayfever, but explains the association between histamine and oestrogen headaches. .. larabriden.com/the-curious-...

[PixieElv in reply to radd]

thank you! I’ll check that out

[Serendipitious in reply to PixieElv]

PixieElv,

Does the progestogen secreted by the Mirena just work locally or is it systemic? Initially I found the HRT and I’m guessing the combined oestrogen along with Utrogestan helped me sleep better but recently I’m finding since upping oestrogel from 2 to 3 pumps that I’m now not sleeping much at all. I tested blood results and oestradiol levels look too low to me. Lower compared to when I started HRT. Have you had bloods done or are you going by symptoms alone?

[GlowCoach Administrator]

If it turns out not to be the HRT then carbohydrates can do that to some people. Some people are just sensitive to carbs and being hypo makes that worse. Try an egg based breakfast with no/1 slice bread.

[PixieElv in reply to GlowCoach]

I was fine on that before, unless the carbs started bothering me all of a sudden?!

[GlowCoach Administrator in reply to PixieElv]

It would be fairly easy to cut out gluten again to see if its the gluten content.

[PixieElv in reply to GlowCoach]

yes. Starting again today. A but difficult on holiday where they consider soya milk a rarity but hey! It can be done. Boiled egg with ships biscuit (gf free) for lunch anyone? 🤣🤣🤣

[Serendipitious in reply to PixieElv]

PixieElv,

Bear in mind that oestrogen helps with insulin sensitivity so if your oestrogen levels aren’t optimal this could be affecting how your respond to meals especially those containing carbs and also your breakfast? Breakfast because most people have fasted over night and what you eat first thing will set your blood glucose levels for the day.

[Jazzw]

Is it definitely the oestrogel? Have you tried not applying it, just to be sure?

[PixieElv in reply to Jazzw]

I’m a bit worried to go to nothing just like that… will that be ok or just send me into an even worse hormone spin?

[Jazzw in reply to PixieElv]

If I’m honest—not sure. Completely understand the worry!

But how about applying it a few hours later to see if the same thing happens if you apply it at a different time?

[PixieElv in reply to Jazzw]

going to nothing from 4 will mean my hormones are crashing.

I tried 2pumps today and I’m feeling a bit better… 🤞🏻

[Trina64]

I am on a lot of estrogen myself, 2mg oral and 1 pump of Estrogel and have tried several kinds. Have you ever tried a different kind? Some woman are sensitive to different kinds. For example, I cannot use patches. I feel like I absorb it too fast. I also tried the ring and the same thing. It took a while to figure out what works for me. The 2mg of oral didn't feel like enough, so my gyn let me add 1 pump of gel.

Before changing completely and starting over, because we know what a pain that is, I would suggest splitting the dose between morning and evening and see if that helps. Try 2 pumps in the morning and 2 pumps at night.

I am also gluten free. I don't know if that helps me or not. I am still early on my last thyroid increase, so hard to know what causes what right now. I have been stable on my estrogen dose for several months, so leaving it alone for now. I don't use progesterone because I do not have a uterus. I am glad because I didn't do well on it and tried several times.

[PixieElv in reply to Trina64]

Good thought about different types. I’ve tried the patches and I didn’t absorb them enough. And I really don’t want to start again. next life I’m coming back as a man! 😂

Next heard of the ring? What’s that Please?

[Trina64 in reply to PixieElv]

I am in the U.S., so I don't know if it is available everywhere, but vitamin is called the Femring.

Being a man seems so much easier, especially when it comes to hormones!

[Buddy195 Administrator]

It might be worth asking for a trial of an oestrogen patch, as this is said to be ‘slower released’ than the gel. Also, consider dropping by half a pump for a couple of days. I’m on 2.5 as I felt ‘wired’ on 3!

[France92 in reply to Buddy195]

I always had terrible headache/migraine from oestrogel on only 1 pump. I changed to sanderna gel and wasn't as bad. I've had to come of all because of cancer scare and don't get headache anymore.

[PixieElv in reply to France92]

I’m sorry to hear that. I hope all is ok?

[PixieElv in reply to Buddy195]

I didn’t absorb the patch. Hence the Oestrogel.. But could ask for Sandrena?

I’m trying 2 at the moment but 2.5 might be a plan if 2 isn’t enough?

[Buddy195 Administrator in reply to PixieElv]

I’ve no knowledge of Sandrena.

Definitely worth adjusting by oestrogel in half pump intervals as adjusting by a whole pump can be too much for some.