What appears to be just coming out of the hashi swing ؟ I had my first ever swing in 3rd month of pregnancy & this current swing started just after my babies arrived in May 2022. Please someone tell me I’m now finally done with the swing & roundabout ?!
Last few days I’ve been terrible, chronic pain, extreme exhaustion, feeling shaky inside, imbalance on walking, foggy etc. Possibly the worst I’ve felt in a very long time.
Do I tweak the levo and add T3. Or continue tweaking T4 only first. Any advantages in adding T3 now or later ? Currently on 137.5 mcg. All tests morning, fasting. No biotin 7 days. I’m totally gluten free.
8th November 2022 - currently Levo 137.5 mcg
TSH 0.064 (0.27-4.2)
FT3 2.71 (2.00-4.4) pg/mL
FT4 1.33 (1-1.6) ng/dL
FT3 : 30 % through range
FT4 : 55 % through range
6th October 2022 - currently Levo 143.75 mcg
TSH 0.008 (0.27-4.2)
FT3 3.21 (2.00-4.4) pg/mL
FT4 1.59 (1-1.6) ng/dL
FT3 : 50 % through range
FT4 : 98 % through range
28 July 2022 - Post results below, reduced from 150 mcg to 143.75 mcg
TSH 0.005 (0.27-4.2)
FT3 3.61 (2.00-4.4) pg/mL
FT4 1.7 (1-1.6) ng/dL
FT3 : 67 % through range
FT4 : 116 % through range
22 June 2022 - Post results below reduced from 162.5mcg to 150mcg
TSH 0.02 (0.27-4.2)
FT3 3.3 (2.00-4.4) pg/mL
FT4 2.1 (1-1.6) ng/dL
FT3 : 54 % through range
FT4 : 183 %through range
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Thank you Jaydee, had a hashi swing just started after birth of babies and very slowly reduced levo dose according to symptoms; admittedly it was a bit experimental but the smallest levo dose drops did the trick. Nutrients/Vitamins were supposed to be done yesterday, I forgot, but will schedule for next time. Thank you.
If you have Hashi's, that's probably why you're a poor converter. And, there's not much you can do about it. Of course, optimal nutrients are a must for your body to be able to use the hormone you're giving it. But doubtful it would do much for your conversion. So, why wait? Add the T3 now and start feeling better.
Thank you greygoose, having difficulty thinking clearly, lots of ‘blurred’ questions come to mind, if I can just ask the way they come!
Nutrients level should be very good, blood tests on the list of things to do, but I take b12 injections every 9-12 months, 5000 IUI vit d daily, iron & folate daily too.
Should I increase a little Levo and start T3 at the same time ? How much T3 to start and how often ?
From what I recall on reading here, I think will be rough before it settles better. Feeling pretty rough already.
Yes SlowDragon, levo dosage has been reduced very slowly over last 6 months; (birth was May 2022) usually 6.25mcg drop after each test.
Vitamin/nutrients, not done since pregnancy, but should be good, definitely on to do list. I’m not breast feeding.
Conversion has always been an issue and the plan was to deal with it after pregnancy. Feeling pretty awful, wondering if I can start the smallest dose T3 and add a little levo too before next months tests.
Thorne Basic B recommended vitamin B complex that contains folate, but they are large capsules. (You can tip powder out if can’t swallow capsule)
IMPORTANT......If you are taking vitamin B complex, or any supplements containing biotin, remember to stop these 7 days before ALL BLOOD TESTS , as biotin can falsely affect test results
In week before blood test, when you stop vitamin B complex, you might want to consider taking a separate methyl folate supplement and continue separate B12
With serum B12 result below 500, (Or active B12 below 70) recommended to be taking a B12 supplement as well as a B Complex (to balance all the B vitamins) initially for first 2-4 months.
once your serum B12 is over 500 (or Active B12 level has reached 70), stop the B12 and just carry on with the B Complex.
thank you Slowdragon, I just started the b12 injections and a b complex. I will definitely remind myself again and go through all the info you’ve kindly pointed out. I upped my levo from 137.5mcg to 150mcg and added 6.25mcg in the morning and today just added another 6.25mcg T3. I seem to be missing a link between my mind & tongue currently. Braking during driving is really needing effort. My speech come pretty slurred! From having experienced a sweet spot, I’m dreaming of just feeling normal again.
I feel reassured, thank you SlowDragon x xx Yes, I’m trying to get the rest with 1-2 extra naps. The twins will be 6 months in 6 days, time flies! Thank you…
I see you had twins (congratulations). When your twins were first conceived and for the first few weeks/months they would not have had a thyroid so they were taking thyroid hormones from you. Then their own thyroids would have developed over a period of time. I don't know when the thyroid is fully developed in a fetus, I was too lazy to look it up.
But obviously getting pregnant, and your body being required to supply thyroid hormones for three for a while, could have upset your body a lot and it may have triggered more autoimmune activity for a while.
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Your current Free T3 is far too low for good health in someone who is hypothyroid. Can you get T3 prescribed where you live?
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Last few days I’ve been terrible, chronic pain, extreme exhaustion, feeling shaky inside, imbalance on walking, foggy etc. Possibly the worst I’ve felt in a very long time.
Chronic pain may be caused by all sorts of nutrient deficiencies e.g. low iron and/or ferritin, low vitamin D. Extreme exhaustion could also be caused by low nutrients.
Feeling shaky inside might be caused by low or high cortisol.
Imbalance on walking - low vitamin B12 and/or low folate.
Foggy - all of the above.
If you can afford to do so could you get as many vitamins and minerals tested as possible?
The most important ones :
B12
Folate
Vitamin D
Ferritin
Iron
Zinc
Copper
Selenium
Iodine - only necessary if you live in an area where iodine deficiency occurs - must be tested with a non-loading test
As many other B vitamins as possible. Thiamine (B1) is particularly important, as is B6.
And get a 4 - part saliva test for cortisol which also includes DHEA.
Did you have heavy bleeding or a haemorrhage during birth? If yes this could lead to low blood volume (hypovolemia), or anaemia, or a condition called Sheehan's Syndrome :
Thank you humanbean for the very detailed response. Firstly, I’ve immediately done some basic tests, grateful for your advice.
Vitamin D 55.3 ng/mL
Vitamin B12 386 pg/mL 197.0 - 771.0
Ferritin 65.9 ng/mL 15-150
Iron 82.4 μg/dL (37 - 145)
UIBC 254.0 μg/dL (135 - 392)
TIBC 336.40 μg/dL (250 - 425)
Transferrin Saturation 24.5% (14.0 - 50.0)
I’m in the United Arab Emirates, but in anticipation last month I ordered some T3 (Abdi Ibrahim) 25mcg. Whilst it’s not the utter headache arranging via an endo here, it still requires going through the consultations, explanations, disagreements on the usual matters these specialists pick on! I opted to avoid the diabetic or endo specialists.
I had a very uneventful birth, really simple, very little bleeding. I’m so very grateful to the amazing people here, for everything. I take a pretty comprehensive list of individual vitamins and nutrients.
So, I’m armed with levo & T3, ready to fight! Your thoughts welcomed.
Vitamin B12 386 pg/mL 197.0 - 771.0 34% through range
Ferritin 65.9 ng/mL 15-150 38% through range
Iron 82.4 μg/dL (37 - 145) 42% through range
UIBC 254.0 μg/dL (135 - 392)
TIBC 336.40 μg/dL (250 - 425) 49% through range
Transferrin Saturation 24.5% (14.0 - 50.0)
Vitamin D - This is fine and is within the recommended optimum (40 - 60 ng/mL)
Vitamin B12 In your shoes I would suggest taking methylcobalamin, 1000mcg per day to raise this much closer to top of range. You could even aim for a level of 1000 pg/mL. In the UK and many other countries methylcobalamin is easy to find online.
Folate You haven't got a result for this. For the body to make proper use of B12 it has to have good levels of folate. It is not a good idea to take folate unless B12 levels are good. The best form of folate to take if it is low is methylfolate. Avoid folic acid for reasons given in these links :
When taking any B vitamin supplements it is a good idea to take a B Complex so that you don't end up with some being very low and some being very high. The full list of B vitamins can be found here, and it is worth reading the full page :
In people with some low B vitamins it is worth taking a good quality B Complex all the time. Only add separate B vitamin supplements when you can't raise your level to optimal with the B Complex.
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This is the guide to optimal iron that is usually used on the forum, although the ferritin info is too vague (in my opinion) :
Ferritin - Your level is not bad but it isn't optimal either. Optimal with your range is quoted as being mid-range (82.5) or 90 - 110 depending on source. This is effectively the same as saying that optimal is roughly 50% to 70% of range. Since your level isn't bad I would suggest not supplementing iron. Including more iron-rich foods in your diet would be a good idea.
Iron - Your level (42% through range) is below optimal according to the suggested levels from RT3-Adrenals. This suggests you need more iron.
Serum iron
• 55 to 70% of the range
• higher end for men
TIBC - Your level for TIBC is very close to mid-range (49% through range). This suggests that your iron and ferritin are wonderful - but then TIBC is often found to be out of step with iron and ferritin. I wouldn't worry about it.
Transferrin Saturation Percentage - Your level (24.5% through range) is below optimal according to the suggested levels from RT3-Adrenals. This suggests you need more iron.
Saturation
• optimal is 35 to 45%
• higher end for men
If you want info on iron supplements (based on UK info) then you should read this reply to another member. Ignore the stuff about pregnancy.
If you ever decide to supplement with iron then please make sure you test an iron panel every 4 - 6 weeks, at least until you have an idea how you respond to it and know how fast it changes your iron, ferritin, and saturation. Once you know these things you may be able to increase the time between tests. But be aware that iron is poisonous in overdose and the body has no mechanism for getting rid of excess iron, other than by losing miniscule amounts in the faeces, or during menstruation.
Vitamin b12, I’ve just started self injecting; b12 seems to have dropped since last tested, but it’s been over a year. I totally forgot to order the folate test, my mind is really not with it; I’ve felt this confused and detached one time before when a routine visit to hospital and doctor suggested I stop levo for a week, I dropped 50 mcg for 2 days and almost pulled my hair out ending up in ER.
humanbean I can’t seem to raise my iron nor ferritin. I’ve been taking 36mg (elemental ) x 3 iron bi glycinate and 400mcg folate daily for over 3 years. My results have improved over the years but I can’t seem to get them anywhere near optimal. I just cannot go near liver! Anything else other than animal organs is very possible! I read a report somewhere, that stopping iron for the odd day here and there improves absorption. Can you recommend anything I could do to improve ? Currently I take the iron and folate at bed time.
I increased levo from 137.5mcg to 150mcg and added 6.25mcg T3, about 5 days ago. Symptoms not really much better, I seem to lose it by late afternoon, feeling very lost and detached, no appetite at all. Today I’ve just added another 6.25mcg late afternoon. Not sure what the exact protocol is but I had to take emergency steps. I’m so very grateful to you, for going through everything so meticulously. I’m going to read through all the links but currently I’m struggling talking and completing my sentences and concentrating on anything. Thank you humanbean xxx
Glad you're injecting B12. Just because your result is in range doesn't mean you aren't deficient.
You might start to feel awful when adding B12. This is because you could be running low on potassium. This isn't a reason to stop taking B12, this is a reason to add potassium. This is explained in this link :
I supplement a level quarter teaspoon of potassium bicarbonate in orange juice roughly every other day because it helps to keep cramp at bay. But if I was injecting B12 (which I don't) I would increase that to daily. The increased need for potassium when repairing a B12 deficiency goes away once the body has stopped making more RBCs than usual.
Iron and Ferritin - Your iron-related results could be better. Perhaps it is time to try another iron product?
I wrote a reply to another member about iron supplements available in the UK without prescription. I don't know what options you have available to you :
1) You could try taking ferrous fumarate 210mg (or something close to that). Start with 1 a day, and depending on tolerance you could add a second and a third. You would also need to add, say, 500mg vitamin C with each iron tablet. If you get constipated you could add more vitamin C. Try it for a month or two then retest.
2) Regarding the every other day suggestion, I looked into that and wrote about it in this post :
Since what you are doing now isn't working as well as you'd like, then trying every other day might be worth doing for a month or two followed by a retest.
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As for your folate, without a result I can't make any comment.
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