Serum vs. tissue T3 levels

[chrysalis56]

My thanks to DippyDame and others for your cogent analyses of serum T3 levels vs. tissue T3 levels. I have been self-dosing T3 for many years (stumbled upon its existence accidentally on an Internet website; a subsequent query, "Dosing T3," led me to Paul Robinson's most valuable books.

A petite female, 51 kilos, I am currently split-dosing a T3 liothyronine generic: 37.5 mcg at 7:30 a.m. (before breakfast), 37.5 mcg at 1:30 p.m., and 12.5 mcg at 7:30 p.m. An increase in dosage beyond 37.5 mcg at a time makes me feel shaky.

Since the start of the pandemic, my energy levels, hence day-to-day functioning have been spiraling downwards, to such an extent that today, I am weak, wobbly, and can hardly walk relatively short distances without stopping to rest. (No COVID; fully vaccinated). This, in spite of a healthy diet (relatively low-carb, gluten-free, little dairy, fish, eggs, lots of veggies and legumes, coupled with loads of vitamins and nutrients). Brain fog continues unabated, perhaps even worsening.

Even beyond the differences in serum vs. tissue T3 levels, I would go even further and propose that my healthy diet and plethora of vitamins are doing me no good whatsoever if all these nourishing substances don't leave the bloodstream, cross the cell membranes, and enter into the mitochondria, the cells' energy-producing factories, where they could do me some good. This makes no sense to me, and I'm not sure what to do to bolster my strength.

Thanks to all of you at Thyroid UK for your support and encouragement. Your comments are welcome.

My best,

chrysalis56

[GlowCoach Administrator]

What vitamins are you taking? This group recommends testing key vitamin levels - ferritin, folate, B12 and D3 and then targeting low levels to get them to an optimum level which is 50%+ and higher.

I have issues with things getting to cells, have dysautonomia and the above approach along with a small amount of T3 is very slowly helping.

What were your latest blood results?

[chrysalis56 in reply to GlowCoach]

My daily vitamins:

Thorne Basic B Complex (every other day; B1 and B3 on alternate days); Vitamin A (Natural Beta-Carotine), 25,000 IU; Vitamin C 1,000 mg; Vitamin D3 3,000 IU; Vitamin E 200 IU; California Gold VitaminK2 Complex 120 micrograms; also

Magnesium Citrate 400 mg; Iron (Blood Builder Minis) 13 mg; Zinc Picolinate 15 mg; Omega 3 850 mg; Probiotics 500 mg

Serum testing:

Vitamin B12 levels 1,777PG/ML (really?!); range 187.0-1060.0, tested 11/2021

Vitamin D3 25-OH 74.50 NG-ML (no range listed), tested 11/2021

Iron 101.00 UG/DL; range 50.0-170.0, tested 5/2022

Ferritin (historically very low) 50.00 NG/ML; range 10.0-290.0, tested 5/2022

Transferrin 220.00 MG/DL; range 200.0-380.0, tested 5/2022

Transferrin Saturation % 33.00%; range 15.0-50.0, tested 5/2022.

Sorry, Jaydee 1507. I hadn't meant to burden you.

Wishing you good health,

chrysalis56

[GlowCoach Administrator in reply to chrysalis56]

They are all in good order other than ferritin which needs more work. It's posssibly even that that's causing you issues.

Did you test your B1 & 3 to know you particularly need them?

No result for folate?

[chrysalis56 in reply to GlowCoach]

My health fund's lab only tests folic acid. Thorne Basic B Complex contains 400 micrograms folate (667 micrograms folic acid). My folic acid levels were 14.10 NG/ML, range 3.1-20.5, tested 4/2021.

Not sure my lab tests B1 (Mega Benfotiamine, fat and water-soluble B1) or B3 ( Niacinamide). I take these on the days I don't take Thorne Basic B, 'way over range (really?!)

I wouldn't know how to raise ferritin levels, but would welcome any advice on that subject.

Thanks again for your concern,

chrysalis56

[GlowCoach Administrator in reply to chrysalis56]

theironclinic.com/symptoms/

Have you seen the list of low ferritin symptoms? I'm guessing the longer you are deficient the worse symptoms get, so would be a good idea to start working on that. Coupled with the low ferritin symptoms you won't be able to use your thyroid hormone properly and it can cause intolerance of T3.People here recommend eating iron rich foods such as chicken livers or chicken lver pate a few times a week to raise levels. It's slow though.

[chrysalis56 in reply to GlowCoach]

Even though I live outside the UK, I am aware of the Iron Clinic's existence, and will review the contents of its website. By choice, I don't eat meat; haven't for awhile and truthfully, don't miss it. Thanks again, Jaydee1507, for your timely suggestion.

Stay well,

chrysalis56

[GlowCoach Administrator in reply to chrysalis56]

There are other iron rich foods that aren't meat, although you would need to eat more of them. Iron supplements are also available, some people tolerate some better than others.

[LindaC in reply to GlowCoach]

Hi, most interesting re dysautonomia - I floated that a while back when bereft of any suggestions, let alone dx, how were you dd'd and on the basis of? Sorry, not meaning to hi-jack this... just fascinating. xox

[GlowCoach Administrator in reply to LindaC]

It's not an easy path to diagnosis, not least as there are few centres that deal with it. That said, things have probably improved since Long Covid came along. I got diagnosed for Hypermobility Ehlers Danlos Syndrome at UCL who referred me on to Queens Square. They did a tilt table test which was positive for Postural Orthostatic Tachycardia Syndrome. Have since had further tests showing I have impaired blood return to my heart.

My symptoms were orthostatic intolerance, a raised, sustained heart rate of 30 beats per minute from lying down at rest to standing. Lots of dizzyness and many other weird symptoms.

[LindaC in reply to GlowCoach]

Thank you so much for this information - most helpful - yes, I've had strange such... looked at this and just, as with much else these days, threw my hands up and focused on what I could... guess I mustn't have been toooo bad to be able to do so. I'll bear this in mind though. You take care and be well - thanks once more. xox

[Anthea55]

Have you tested for low stomach acid? If your stomach acid is too low your vitamins and minerals etc will not be absorbed fully. Thyroid medication will not work well unless vitamins and minerals are optimal. Multivitamins are not recommended as they are not personal to you. You only need to supplement items which have been tested and found to be low.

You may find these links helpful. Both about hypochlorhydria (low stomach acid)

healthline.com/health/hypoc...

drmyhill.co.uk/wiki/Hypochl...

I hope this helps.

[chrysalis56 in reply to Anthea55]

Thanks very much for this information, Anthea55. I haven't yet tested for low stomach acid, but I should. I appreciate the links, too. I'm doing my best to avoid thyroid issues completely overtaking my life. Perhaps you can relate.

Good health to you,

chrysalis56

[arTistapple]

Have you discussed blood tests elsewhere?

[chrysalis56 in reply to arTistapple]

Only my family doctor. I can't see an endocrinologist until mid-January, 2023. Was there a reason why you asked?

Thanks for being in touch,

chrysalis56

[arTistapple]

I was looking at your post and wondered why no-one was asking for blood tests to see what your thyroid levels were. I wondered if you had posted them somewhere else on the forum and I had overlooked them. Not that I am in anyway an expert but I like to see blood test results so I/we can all go on learning from each other and from the advice given. Apologies if I have created a misunderstanding.

[chrysalis56]

You're right, arTistapple, I neglected to include these measurements in my list of serum blood tests. I take T3 only, and as per my GP's instructions, take my final (split) dose mid-afternoon prior to early-morning blood work, fasting since the night before.

TSH: <0.01 microIU/mL, range 0.35-4.94 microIU/ml. Last tested 27/6/2022

Free T4 (whatever my body is producing by itself): <5.15 PMOL/L; Range 9-16.7 PMOL/L. Last tested 27/6/2022

Free T3: 5.3 PMOL/L, range 2.6-5.7 PMOL/L. Last tested 27/6/2022.

Apologies for the confusion,

chrysalis56

[shaws]

I also take T3 and follow Dr John Lowe's advice of one daily dose. He was a scientist/expert on T3 and he took his one daily dose of T3 - in the middle of the night when his stomach was empty - and it enabled him to carry on with restoring patients' health. He stated that our T3 receptor cells sent out 'waves' throughout the day.

I take my T3 when I awake without one glass of water and wait an hour before I eat.

He was also an Adviser to Thyroiduk but had an accident that caused him to lose his life.

Dr John Lowe and how to take thyroid hormones

His website is still on the internet:-

google.com/search?client=fi...

[chrysalis56 in reply to shaws]

Shaws, I greatly appreciate your comments on Dr. John Lowe's approach to T3 dosing (all at once, in the middle of the night), and your personal T3 regimen, first thing in the morning before breakfast. I try and sleep through the night if I can, as I function somewhat more effectively the following day, but will read up on Dr. Lowe and his exceptional approach to thyroid patients.

Like you, I take my first of 3 (split dose) T3 first thing in the morning, prior to breakfast, then try to fit in a swim before breakfast. Thanks again to Jaydee1507 for comments on iron levels. I have begun supplementing with iron (Megafood Blood Builder Minis, 13 mg a day) and that is beginning to improve my strength.

My best, chrysalis56

[Imaaan]

Hello,

We are close in weight and I'm surprised that you're able to take that much t3. Do you experience any heart palpitations, racing heart or chest pain?

I'm on ndt and slowly trying to increase it to raise my free t3.

Also did you experience any symptoms as you increased your t3?

[chrysalis56 in reply to Imaaan]

Imaaan, thank you for being in touch. I don't experience any heart palpitations, racing heart, or chest pains, but I also split my dose into three smaller doses over the course of the day, and take each dose an hour before meals. If I try to very slowly up my T3 dose, sometimes I feel wobbly or shaky, more so than I would like. Too much T3 exacerbates an essential tremor in my left hand, especially. For better or for worse, I would describe myself as "a work in progress."

Not sure my response helped you much, but I so wish you well in your own thyroid journey.

Best of luck,

chrysalis56

[Imaaan in reply to chrysalis56]

It was helpful, thank you for taking the time. I really think you would benefit from improving your levels if you added lamb liver and heme iron to your regimen.

Sending you best wishes on your journey