T3 Greece

[AppleOrchard]

I know of someone who is going to Greece. I was thinking of asking him to get me some T3. What would he have to ask for? (He’s Greek)

Thank you

[helvella Administrator]

Just so you are aware:

In the UK we are allowed to buy from abroad for ourselves and members of our household.

A friend bringing some in for you would not be covered by the exemption.

Don't even think of lying to or misleading customs/border force!

Have a look for liothyronine in Greece here:

helvella - Thyroid Hormone Medicines

I have created, and try to maintain, a document containing details of all thyroid hormone medicines in the UK and, in less detail, many others around the world.

From Dropbox:

dropbox.com/s/wfhrlmb5983co...

From Google Drive:

drive.google.com/file/d/12N...

[AppleOrchard in reply to helvella]

Thank you very much. I had no idea it wasn’t allowed. I will not ask him then because I wouldn’t want to put him in an awkward position. When you are buying for yourself, how do you prove it’s for your own use?

Thank you again.

[helvella Administrator in reply to AppleOrchard]

Chances are, you'll never get asked - whether sent by post or carried in person. But if you do, I think you simply have to be prepared and answer honestly but carefully.

If they are alleging you are effectively smuggling, it really is up to them to prove their case. But anything you have - like emails with doctors, previous prescriptions, etc. - could help to prove your side.

Also, don't buy in large orders! If you do have problems, better with only a modest amount both in terms of losing it and raising suspicions.

(I don't buy any so don't need to think about it on a personal basis most of the time.)

[AppleOrchard in reply to helvella]

This is all great advice. I do have proof of a UAT so that would help. And I wouldn’t buy too much. I can see how that could be misinterpreted. How I wish it was easier. It’s just so incredibly hard to get well if you don’t have access to all that you need.

Thank you again.

[hackman in reply to helvella]

This is really useful - thank you for the link. Do you happen to know which brand of T3 is used in both China and the Philippines? I have family in both.

[helvella Administrator in reply to hackman]

I'm afraid that when I have tried to understand the Chinese system, I have never found the information in English - and I have no understanding whatsoever of Chinese language. I've tried several times and get to a certain point then realise I have no idea where to go next. The information could well be available.

If you find any information, please let me know and I will add to my document.

The Philippines have no approved liothyronine product. You can check here:

verification.fda.gov.ph/dru...

[Steni in reply to helvella]

I’m sure this is technically correct but in practice I’d say it was unlikely to cause this amount of trouble .

[helvella Administrator in reply to Steni]

The issue I am trying to address is ignorance. I'd hate to know that someone got stopped and it resulted in a problem.

We have heard of a few people having modest postal packages seized by Border Force - even when they were on the right side of the law.

How annoying to unthinkingly answer a question in a way that sees the medicine taken away when another perfectly honest answer might have been accepted. (Say a student gives their term time address but says it is for a parent who doesn't live there. Though in vacations they stay at home with that parent!)

Not a bad idea for the household member to be able to answer "And how many tablets does <your relative> take each day?"

It is, of course, up to each person to make their own decisions on these issues.

[SilverAvocado]

AppleOrchard,

I hope you aren't put off by the difficulties of doing this. Though I do think it's a big favour to ask a friend, so I would only ask if they're that kind of friend. As well as the legal complexity, most pharmacies don't stock much T3, so it can mean a lot of walking around to get a useful amount.

One of the most horrible things about buying our own medication is that we are forced to make use of grey areas of the law and are walking the line of being criminalised Yes, it is legal to buy overseas for personal use, but I very much think that is a legal loophole. Medics and policy-makers would still be horrified by what we are doing, and would prevent it if they could.

But I think this is one of the hard things we just have to endure and accept about being ill It will just never be easy to get hold of thyroid hormone without a supportive doctor.

Having a friend or family member post you medication from overseas is one of the simplest and safest ways to get hold of it. It is far cheaper than buying it elsewhere, and you don't need to worry about transferring money (credit cards usually can't be used), or not getting what you've ordered.

[AppleOrchard in reply to SilverAvocado]

It’s actually dreadful having to self medicate. If we had some other illness, we wouldn’t have to do it. I don’t mind the law thing too much; it’s the fact we have to do it at all that I find hard. It’s the fact the the NHS is so unsupportive of thyroid disease.

I told my GP that I take it. Thankfully she didn’t ask where I get it from. I told her, truthfully, that Dr Toft suggested I try it. At the time I didn’t because of the cost of getting it privately. I wish I had because then it would be above board.

The friend who is going to Grace is more of an acquaintance so I won’t ask him. Unfortunately I don’t know anyone else going to Greece or Turkey.

I’ll keep doing what I’m doing for now and hope that one day I can see a specialist on the NHS who can prescribe the T3 on the NHS.

Thank you very much for your reply.

[Hennerton]

He asks for a packet of Unipharma Liothyronine. It is very cheap - just a few euros. Buy as many as possible, as it is definitely the best I have used.

[AppleOrchard in reply to Hennerton]

That’s fab - I’ll tell him what to ask for. Do you know how many are in a packet and how many packets he’s be allowed to buy?Thank you very much.

[Marz in reply to AppleOrchard]

They stock around 2/3 pkts but are re-stocked on a regular basis. 30 x 25mcg tabs in each box ..

[Marz]

You could ask your friend to post any purchases from Greece ! Remove contents from the boxes so parcel is small. You could pre-address a Jiffy envelope for him to take. Taff Dria - T3 in Greek.

[AppleOrchard in reply to Marz]

Thank you very much. That’s a great idea - I could do that because then he doesn’t have to bring it back with him. I just wouldn’t want him trawling the pharmacies. He’s Greek so might know a good one. Thank you very much indeed.

[Marz in reply to AppleOrchard]

All the pharmacies are good - some more helpful than others. They are everywhere !

[AppleOrchard in reply to Marz]

So he asks for Taff Dria Unipharma? Thank you very much.

[Marz in reply to AppleOrchard]

I lived in Greece until recently and lost count of the times I was offered Tea Tree Oil instead of T3 !! They are very knowledgeable so will know the correct term Liothyronine. Just thought it best to keep it simple for your friend !

[AppleOrchard in reply to Marz]

Thank you for that. I’ll tell him to say liothyronine then!! Thank you

[Steni]

If you get the drugs posted I don’t see there’s any difference in having the T3 sent from Germany which many people used to do with no questions asked . I’m not sure it constitutes smuggling or if anyone really cares if it did , the authorities are too busy controlling their borders against innocent people to worry about a bit of T3

[Fifteen in reply to Steni]

Post Brexit our German supplier cannot send medication to the UK. Bennewitz can only send medication within the EU - and, as we know, can only supply on an EU prescription.

[Steni in reply to Fifteen]

I have just been told by my wonderful GP that another patient has been able to continue getting her T3 from Germany . I have an address if anyone wants it - DM me

[AppleOrchard in reply to Steni]

I think that’s the best idea. Although he may have to go to a post office. I’ll ask him and see what he says. He can say no and I wouldn’t mind if he does. Thank you very much.

[marigold22 in reply to Steni]

Steni . Liothyronine (T3) is not a drug. It's a hormone

[Steni in reply to marigold22]

Of course I meant drugs as in medication not Drugs as in illegal substances !

[helvella Administrator]

Another member has just posted this tweet which as a picture of UniPharma T3 as is usual in Greece:

twitter.com/HealthwatchE/st...

(You do not need to be registered or signed in to Twitter to view this.)

[Marz in reply to helvella]

The packaging changed in 2019 to a slightly larger flatter box. Foil inserts contain 2 x 15 tabs The pkt shown contains 3 x 10 tabs.

Am out of touch so could have changed back ?

[helvella Administrator in reply to Marz]

I believe that both 2x15 and 3x10 are listed in Greek documentation - but that doesn't necessarily mean both are (or were) available at the same time!

It is difficult being sure of things online, especially when in a very foreign language!

[Marz in reply to helvella]

Can check with a pal in Crete on T3 - maybe later as we are off out ....

[helvella Administrator in reply to Marz]

Thanks - I'd like to know for sure.

[Marz in reply to helvella]

We are off to our Lodge - around 90 mins away - better not keep the Driver waiting ! Back later !

[Marz in reply to helvella]

Hi - reply in from Crete and the current packaging is two foil inserts each containing 15 tablets. So it will be a slightly larger box and flatter. I will ask her for a pic ..

[AppleOrchard in reply to Marz]

Thank you and would be great to have a pic. Have a lovely time at your lodge!

[Marz in reply to AppleOrchard]

Thank you ! The box looks the same as the one shown earlier- just slightly larger and flatter due to there being only two inserts of tablets !

[AppleOrchard in reply to Marz]

Me too! Thank you

[AppleOrchard in reply to helvella]

Thank you very much for the information. It’s a good idea to see if I can find a photo.

[SueHG]

I have recently bought t3 in Greece( see my post3 weeks ago) no problems but a lot of trawling the streets in search of pharmacies. Some don’t have it others do and can order if necessary. The packs are larger than before, this is an old one but it looks the same. Just show it at the pharmacy. A good idea for your friend to send it.

GreekT3

[AppleOrchard in reply to SueHG]

Thank you very much for the photo. I’ll print it out for him. He won’t go trawling because he won’t have time. He will be going to a pharmacy in Athens. Hopefully he will get lucky. Do they sell them in packs of 100 and how much are they?

How do I find your post?

Thank you very much.

[SueHG in reply to AppleOrchard]

I guess the only way you would get a number of packs is if you order them. I was lucky at one pharmacy that the daily delivery was taking place whilst I was in the shop and I got 10. Usually it’s one pack if you are lucky. Often an assistant in the shop may tell you they can be ordered then the pharmacist will contradict.

[humanbean]

Have you ever heard of Thyroid Patient Advocacy? The person who started that charity (Sheila Turner, now deceased) wrote to the government department responsible for the law on importing drugs and asked for clarification. This was back in 2014. I'm not aware of the law having been changed since then but don't take my word for it - I have no legal knowledge.

The correspondence can be found here :

tpauk.com/main/article/mhra...

I have bought T3 from online pharmacies in the past. The packages never stated what they contained. Often they just said they contained "health supplements".

[helvella Administrator in reply to humanbean]

I'm not in the least convinced of the legal basis of their response.

Nothing in the law seems to justify a three month restriction. Given our current circumstances (interrupted manufacturing and supply chains for many medicines), three months seems entirely unacceptable to me.

Further, as someone new to, say, liothyronine, how on earth could you, your doctor or HMRC determine three months supply?

Nothing seems to justify any requirement for a letter from a doctor. And if you could get a prescription, half the issue would disappear! Pretty much leaving cost as the justification regarding liothyronine.

The law which seems to me to cover this is:

The Human Medicines Regulations 2012

2012 No. 1916 PART 3 Grant etc of licences Regulation 17

Manufacturing of medicinal products

17.—(1) A person may not except in accordance with a licence (a “manufacturer’s licence”)—

(a)manufacture, assemble or import from a state other than an EEA State any medicinal product; or

(b)possess a medicinal product for the purpose of any activity in sub-paragraph (a).

(2) Paragraph (1) is subject to paragraphs (3) to (5).

(3) Paragraph (1) applies in relation to an investigational medicinal product only—

(a)if the product has a marketing authorisation, Article 126a authorisation, certificate of registration or traditional herbal registration; and

(b)to the extent that the manufacture or assembly of the product is in accordance with the terms and conditions of that authorisation, certificate or registration.

(4) In paragraph (3), “marketing authorisation” means—

(a)a marketing authorisation issued by a competent authority in accordance with the 2001 Directive; or

(b)an EU marketing authorisation.

(5) Paragraph (1) does not apply to a person who, in connection with the importation of a medicinal product from a state other than an EEA State—

(a)provides facilities solely for transporting the product; or

(b)acting as an import agent, imports the medicinal product solely to the order of another person who holds a manufacturer’s licence authorising the importation of the product.

(6) Paragraph (1) does not apply to a person who imports a medicinal product for administration to himself or herself or to any other person who is a member of that person’s household.

legislation.gov.uk/uksi/201...

[humanbean in reply to helvella]

Yes, I realise that the TPA information is not perfect, and it's old.

But it doesn't say that importing medicines is illegal which was my fear when I first imported thyroid hormones. I always sweat a bit when I order from outside the UK, even now. I half expect Customs to confiscate it, or some heavies in black coats and sunglasses to come to my door holding up badges and telling me to get in the car.

[helvella Administrator in reply to humanbean]

Some other countries are much more restrictive - including, from something I read the other day, Ireland.

The biggest single oddity about the UK's law and policies seems to me that DHEA is a Controlled Drug!

[humanbean in reply to helvella]

Yes, I agree - that is very weird.

[humanbean in reply to helvella]

Oh, and have you seen the one and only use for it (according to the NHS) in the BNF?

bnf.nice.org.uk/drugs/prast...

Why can't people with low levels of DHEA be prescribed it in tablet/capsule form?

[Marz]

Am asking if maggykriti is able to help .... as its possible she has bought T3 recently in Crete/Kriti...

[SueHG in reply to Marz]

Just been and posted my findings three weeks ago, take a look

[Marz in reply to SueHG]

Already read it ! So was your packaging the old or the new - you didn't say.

[SueHG in reply to Marz]

It’s the old one as I said, but it looks the same