According to my morning trawl through the online dreaded DM it appears that Professor Tim Spector now appears to be totally against taking vitamin D and declares it to be a total waste of money. I’m afraid I have no intention of being influenced by his most recent thoughts. It is depressing though.
Vitamin D - oh dear!: According to my morning... - Thyroid UK
Vitamin D - oh dear!
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Fruitandnutcase
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helvellaAdministratorThyroid UK
But he does point out that we are all different and our individual optimum vitamin D levels will vary.
We have a small number of members who feel desperately ill if they regularly take vitamin D supplements (at least, in anything like a typical dose). Those who advise taking significant doses have never been willing to accept that. Nor explain it. They simply ignore those who suffer and pretend they do not exist. Or revert to that favourite of doctors everywhere and tell them it is all in their head.
It just worries me that he can damn something just like that. I’d hate to think people who need it were denied it either on grounds of cost to the NHS or because based on this article they felt it wasn’t worth the money, especially as, if they buy their own expenses are increasing.
As you say some people feel terrible when they take vitamin D others take it and feel fine. As someone who is sensitive to various drugs but not others it is certainly not in their heads and it’s not up to anyone else to tell them that.
I was speaking to a rheumatologist in September - I was explaining to her that I had stopped my bisphosphonate treatment because they had made me feel terribly ill. She actually made a comment that ‘I see you are ok with hydroxychloroquine - a lot of people can’t take that’ - I couldn’t see her logic, just because I could take one drug that she considered to be ‘troublesome’ for some people didn’t mean that I could take everything.
It certainly wasn’t in my head because my head (and the rest of my body) went back to normal within a couple of weeks of giving up the alendronic acid besides I also took carbimazole which I once saw described as a ‘dirty drug’ whatever that meant for a year with no problems yet other people can’t take it.
'most prescription medicines only work on 30% to 50% of people.'
theguardian.com/science/202...
There was something on Radio 4 (Today programme, maybe) last week, a professor talking about researching patients' individual genetically-determined responses to commonly prescribed drugs (e.g. post-surgery) that can be ineffective through harmful to lethal in some cases, so the blanket prescribing of medications ought not to be blindly followed in the future - and more credence given to patient observations on their effects. I imagine it may be a long way off, given the funding situation and the glacial speed of change.
Really interesting article that I hadn’t seen, thank you for posting it.
I can really appreciate your comment and also wanted to add my own interesting experience with vit d3 . When it was first prescribed for me I was taking one pill of 50,000 IU prescription strength once a week. I was completely fine and was on it for about 3 months. Then my doc switched it up to 10,000IU taken five times a week for almost a year and I was fine as well. I finally got on range and my doctor reduced it to a maintenance dose of 20,000IU a week. My levels hovered around the lower end of the normal range which was better than being deficient for most of my life.
Fast forward this year, I developed an issue being unable to tolerate more than 1000IU and for the life of me couldn't figure out the reason.I would take 2500IU and my heart would start racing so I just stopped and would supplement here and there to avoid palpitations/tachycardia. During that whole period that I couldn't tolerate the D3 I was dealing with my free t3 diving below the normal range on and off. My free t3 got back on range recently thank God and I was able to take the vit d3 at 5000IU with no symptoms again. My plan is to try 10 10000IU again God willingly and see how I fare.
Goes to show how interesting and unique are bodies are.
That seems a bit unfair Helvella - I’m one who’s posted re benefits of vitamin D, having read extensively for quite a few years. I would never be unsympathetic, especially having known many others struggle (B12 deficiency, ME/CFS, Addisons etc etc.) with doctors’ scorn of symptoms, vitamins, natural remedies, etc.
As for Daily Mail/Dr Tim Spector article, I would rather believe Gareth Davies/Linda Benskin’s latest research - their interview with Bret Weinstein was very revealing !!
Where I say "Those who advise ...", I was meaning the professionals who should understand. Not individuals relating their own stories, and making suggestions to others.
In everything I have ever read from those professionals who advocate vitamin D supplementation, not once have I seen a proper acknowledgement that some cannot tolerate it. Nor any advice for those people.
I have responded quite a number of times, trying to raise the issue across several sites. And have got precisely nowhere.
Intolerance of vitamin D seems mostly discussed in areas which could very easily be thought "the lunatic fringe".
Hi
Hope you had a shower after reading the DM lol. They are considering adding vitamin D to more foods apparently.
Ah, I only look at it to see what I ought to be incensed about it. How would I know if it wasn’t for that - it’s ok though I read the online Guardian too for a balanced view of life. 🤣🤣🤣
Hi
I always laugh at the Daily Depress and their apocalyptic we're all going to die barmy weather forecasts. Death from blizzards, hurricanes, heatwaves, this weather never materialises.
Now how bonkers is that? Adding it to foods? How on earth will we monitor our intake? I depair!!!! I wonder how much the food industry will charge for adding it in ????
Hi Fruitandnutcase,
An elderly relative with osteoporosis and arthritis has just had their vitamin D prescription stopped by her gp. She wasn't sure why but I'm wondering if it is due to this research? Possibly?
Sorry to hear your relative’s experience. A few years ago now my surgeon suggested I may need vit D to help with all my aches and discomforts post TT surgery. My gp did prescribe it following blood tests showing I was deficient in vit D. He also announced that a large proportion of the population were probably deficient because of our limited sunny weather here in the UK. After receiving 3 prescriptions I was told it was a loading dose and I wasn’t getting any more with no further bloods done 🤷♀️ Hope your relative doesn’t suffer because of this decision x
Hi
I got mine stopped few years ago as well. The NHS cited funding cutbacks and justified it by saying you can buy Vitamin D cheaply. It might be due to that.
Yes possibly. Although it will be interesting to hear what reason he does give when she sees him next.
More likely a money saving exercise.....lol.
Yes that was my first thought!
I would get her to query that. Probably some over zealous ignorant GP! If you have power of attorney, health, you could write to practise manager requesting an explanation & requesting reinstatement. Explain that she has osteoporosis so vit D is important to help maintain her bone density. What they prescribe is a maintenance dose. I know am on them. And in the main they are enough for me but sometimes I top up with a short extra course on top in winter. Make sure she has K2 too. Your GP should check her vit D level every two years. I buy my own test so can check it more frequently- usually annually as am pretty stable. You do need to know her blood test result as it maybe they were stopped as the level is very high. You can have too much....
Thanks waveylines,
It's really difficult to help someone who believes what their GP says regardless if it's correct or not.
She did get a printout of her most recent blood results but there was no vitamin D result there. Also only TSH was done and no FT4.
I believe she may be hypothyroid as has high cholesterol and is on statins. Any suggestions of POA is met with suspicion. So it will be a challenge to help as best I can.
Also trying to get my own diagnosis sorted which is another battle as feeling ill most days now and it's a struggle.
I don't want to sabotage someone else's post but thanking you for your concern. 😊
Thanks for posting. I notice the article mentions 15 mins in the sun should do the trick. Hubby and I both tested ' insufficient ' after 4 years of living in Crete when we had plenty of sun exposure when the sun was at its highest - between 11am and 3pm. We both have Hashimotos.
My go to website is grassrootshealth.net when it comes to VitD and research.
And yes I can and do accept not everyone can stomach VitD supplements - perhaps those people benefit from levels in food or have very pale skin ( personal observation - nothing scientific ! )
Exactly. I remember my vitamin D being pretty low when I had it tested after one of our hottest sunniest summers then three weeks camping in the south of France. Basically I have to keep taking it if I want to keep my levels up. After the endo I dealt with when I had Graves told me he couldn’t understand why it had become so fashionable to have vitamin D tested and if I could produce some evidence for it he would test it next time I visited. As he was gone next visit I imagine he must have known he wouldn’t be there when I returned.
Now I avoid doctors and test with either City Assays or Medichecks.
I’ll be interested to see if osteoporosis medics change their views based on this. My osteoporosis nurse actually told me at our first meeting that ‘vitamin D was vital for my bones and that I couldn’t overdose on vitamin D.’ I’m sure I could if I really tried but that’s another matter, I wonder if or how long it will take for Tim Spector’s comments to affect the world of osteoporosis?
PS - just signed up for GrassrootsHealth, thanks.
Hi actually you can overdose on vitamin D and in extreme cases it requires hospitalisation to clear the excess. It causes too much calcium to build up in the body, Hypercalcaemia. You can't overdose on vitamin D from sunlight but you can from supplements.
Yes . . That's why if using suppliments it's always best to have regular blood tests
I know, I was absolutely amazed then the nurse said that, could hardly believe my ears. Of course you can overdose. I’ve tested my vitamin D about twice a year since I started taking it and I take vitamin K2 as well.
news.sky.com/story/vitamin-...
And now we have this ! It seems noone talks to each other anymore !! Link is about Javid's D plans 😎
Brilliant isn’t it! Two completely different opinions on vitamin D.
Still you can get two different opinions on the progress of covid in the same newspaper. One article states that it is in decline then a an inch or so further down we are told it is on the increase - same day!
Gave up on MSM long ago. Am a UK Column gal 😎
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/266...
Posted this a few years back - after helvella posted. Think it's the same piece ! Only small numbers but interesting.....
Very interesting. Wonder if Professor Spector with his 15 minutes of sunshine is enough has read it.
Hi Martz I'll just debunk the pale skin theory for intolerance of vitD supplements. Cant get paler than me & my body loves the stuff thankfully 😂🤣And Id love to know what Proff Tim Spector has to say about your insufficiency of vit D after living in Crete with all that lovely sunshine. Me thinks he is talking about something that is well outside his area of expertise and he should stick to what he actually knows about. Am very disappointed in him, thought he had more sense.....lol.
Darker skins prevent the uptake from the sun. So having a pal with pale skin who does not supplement or sit in the sun I was wondering if they benefitted from the effects of the sun more walking around - as test results were good. Sorry did not mean to be confusing and give the impression pale skins were linked to poor supplement tolerance 😕
No need to apologise Martz! Darker skins they say absorb less as a compensatory mechanism to hot temperate climates I believe. Where I'm concerned I now can't even take March sun. I burnt the other day being outside but not sitting in it. Am totally reliant on vit D supplements so Proff Spectors inferance that vit D supplements are somehow inferior to sunshine is ridiculous! He should be ashamed of himself!
He should indeed!
I really hope the paper has misquoted him! It has been known......
Unfortunately somehow I don’t think so - he had an awful lot to say, it didn’t look like a quick quote that could have been misquoted.
You can always rely on the Mail to cause controversy and nonsense !
Unfondly known as the Daily Heil in my house.
That's brilliant Sparklingsunshine!! 😂🤣
Since vitamin D increases absorption of calcium from the diet I would really love to know why some people can't tolerate it. If we understood that it could have knock-on effects on our knowledge of so many other things e.g.
1) Vitamin D is made in the skin from cholesterol. How many people on statins have low vitamin D?
2) Vitamin D raises absorption of calcium. There is probably a link between vitamin D, calcium and plaque levels in the arteries.
3) Calcium control has something to do with the parathyroids, but I don't know the details.
4) There are relationships between calcium, magnesium, selenium, zinc and copper. And vitamin D affects calcium. There are connections between so many important vitamins and minerals.
Title : The Connection Between Calcium and Magnesium
Link : drnewtons.com/blog/connecti...
Title : High dietary calcium intakes reduce zinc absorption and balance in humans
Link : pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/917...
Title : The risk of copper deficiency in patients prescribed zinc supplements
Link : pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/260...
So, starting with vitamin D, its effects have tentacles throughout many different functions of the body.
Indeed.......and one thing docs have poor knowledge about are vitamins and minerals and the way they interplay. Its all about balance......and its not so much how much you take but whether you need it topping it up. When my vit D3 was at a level of 3 I had flu twice, each lasted over a month! Since my vit D has been optomised to around a 100 my viral infections are rare and usually mild. I doubt its the vit D persay but the fact that I have my minerals and vitamins more balanced these days. Doctors tend to have a linear approach.......a+b = c. This is a miatake as in reality its far more complex with the interplay between different componants being really important.
Tim Spector is forging a career partly from being a vitamin D cynic or at least cynicism about vit D suppliers benefitting financially. See his discussion with Dr John Campbell 11mths ago, for example: youtu.be/aCAvvZXUW08.
Interestingly, as lead of the ZOE study, he hasn't been critical of covid vaccine suppliers making more money! Maybe he will now the study is ending against his wishes??
My view is that vitamin D plays an important role in various health issues including immune protection. There's been too many positive reports for covid, other immunity studies (and RCTs) etc for that not to be so.
Is it coincidence that the results from the Coronavit study are not positive with it being commissioned by the UK Govt which we know is negative about vit D??
Is vit D the complete solution? Probably not. In fact, I agree with Spector's comments at the end of the above video re the gut's role in immunity.
But I'm actually happy that there are prominent vit D cynics as that might stop big pharma getting it to be labelled as a drug (as per NAC)!
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