What is acceptable heart rate on Armour?

[magsyh]

I have been on Armour just over 3 months now and to be honest I'm looking worse instead of better. I have put on even more weight, I'm all puffy and the fluid retention all over my body is just horrible. I keep trying to up my dose from 1 grain but my heart rate goes all over the place when I do. I got as far as 1 and a half and every time I moved my heart rate would jump up to as much as 125 just getting up off a seat or making tea my fit bit is continuously in fat burn. Is this normal? I keep going back to 1 grain because at that level my heart rate behaves and doesn't cause me any anxiety. I had my bloods tested after 8 weeks and my TSH was 1.78 T4 was only 12.9 (12-22) T3 was best it's ever been at 5.33(3.1-6.8) but instead of feeling good I'm fat, puffy and have very dry skin. Much worse than I was ever on levo. I was only on 50mcg levo. On that my T4 was 50,% in range but T3 was only 40% and TSH was 5.99. so some improvement in numbers but I feel and look terrible. Any suggestions? I get scared everytime my heart goes silly so I'm not getting far. When I up the dose it takes about 12 days for my heart rate to start playing up.

[SeasideSusie Remembering]

Magsyh

Armour or NDT doesn't suit everyone, it didn't suit me and I gave it a good trial under Dr P.

I was only on 50mcg levo. On that my T4 was 50,% in range but T3 was only 40% and TSH was 5.99.

Those results don't suggest that you needed NDT. They just suggest that you needed an increase in Levo to get your TSH lower. Your FT4 and FT3 were reasonably well balanced so an increase in Levo would have been the first step to see what happened to your FT4 and FT3 when TSH was lower.

[magsyh in reply to SeasideSusie]

I have been seeing a private doc because my GP took me off levo completely for 9months. I was almost on my knees so I went back on levo with private doc. He suggested the Armour.NHS took me off and said they wouldn't give me it back till TSH reaches 10

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to magsyh]

Why did GP take you off Levo?

[magsyh in reply to SeasideSusie]

I was having speeding heart rate while I was sleeping. Only ever happened during the night. It was causing very high anxiety. I was scared to go to bed. The private doc said it was likely to be the fillers. I was put on to a German brand by him and it stopped. It has been happening again since I've been on Armour. I have low morning cortisol it is normal the rest of the day. NHS wasn't interested even when they tested blood cortisol and it was lower than they wanted.

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to magsyh]

Have you looked at the lists of excipients of the different and compared them?

Can you not go back on the German brand if the problem disappeared when you were taking that?

[magsyh in reply to SeasideSusie]

I'm seriously considering it. One of my biggest problems is any petroleum based derivatives. I cannot take any pharmaceutical product. I cannot tolerate any smell of dishwasher tablets, washing liquid, petrol, oil, fumes of any kind, any kind of ethynol, I just discovered Armour has it too it makes me very ill.

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to magsyh]

Sounds like the German brand might be your only option unless you can find a brand that doesn't have the excipient(s) that you are sensitive to.

[magsyh in reply to SeasideSusie]

Thanks to all for replies. I decided last night after reading all of your comments to wean off the Armour and go back on the German levo. I haven't really missed my 2nd dose this afternoon and heart rate is behaving already. Xx

[shaws Administrator in reply to magsyh]

I also had severe palps during the night when newly diagnosed and on levo and Cardiologist (I had many overnight heart monitors) was puzzled and was contemplating putting an implant in my heart 'to see what was going on! Just then T3 was added to T4 and immediately palps reduced. I then went onto T3 only and have been well since with no palpitations. The palpitations were awful and we don't really know what is the cause. Sometimes it could be the fillers/binders in the tablets.

[SlowDragon Administrator]

I was only on 50mcg levo. On that my T4 was 50,% in range but T3 was only 40% and TSH was 5.99.

Why on earth wasn’t levothyroxine increased after these results

50mcg is only the standard STARTER dose levothyroxine

On levothyroxine TSH should always be below 2

Dose levothyroxine is increased slowly upwards in 25mcg steps, typically until Ft4 is at least 60-70% through range

Most people when adequately treated on levothyroxine, unless very petite, likely to need at least 100mcg per day

NDT may have too much T3 in for you

Were you splitting dose into 2 or 3 smaller doses spread through the day

Essential to regularly retest vitamin D, folate, ferritin and B12

When were these last tested

What vitamin supplements are you currently taking

[magsyh in reply to SlowDragon]

They never increased it because when they did my heart was speeding while I was sleeping so they just decided levo wasn't for me and they refused to give me anything else. I have tried splitting it into 2 and 3 doses but if I have any after 2pm I can't sleep and heart races like it did on levo. I had everything tested a month ago. All were optimal only thing that shocked me was my blood sugar and triglycerides are higher since starting Armour.

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to magsyh]

High heart rate can be due to UNDER medication……or low iron/ferritin…..low magnesium

What are you most recent ferritin and iron levels

What vitamin supplements are you currently taking

Which brand of levothyroxine have you tried

Many people find different brands are not interchangeable

Request trial on liquid levothyroxine?

Can suit if tablets don’t

Adding T3 alongside levothyroxine another option

Or taking beta blocker to stop fast heartbeat……usually propranolol

This slows uptake and conversion of Ft4 to Ft3

You can’t be prescribed propranolol if have asthma

[amala57]

Hi, I've been really well on ndt , thyroid s, for a few years. However, due to supply & quality issues, I switched to Armour. After 8 days I felt as if I was going to have a heart attack. Palpitations & chest pain. The only other time I've felt like that was when I tried synthetic t3. I wondered if they had added synthetic t3 to the ndt.Anyway, I've had to stop taking it. 8 days was too long for me. It seems there is no good ndt brand at the moment. I may try Metavive.

Good luck. I hope you feel better soon.

[Jazzw]

What are your iron/ferritin levels magsyh ? This isn’t based on any research but an observation from reading many posts like yours over the years. When people struggle to tolerate increases in thyroid hormone levels it very often seems to happen to those with low iron/ferritin levels.

[magsyh in reply to Jazzw]

Hi my ferritin is 147 and saturation 29% so I don't think it's that?

[Jazzw in reply to magsyh]

It’s hard to say. Higher ferritin can be due to inflammation rather than having good levels. Did you have C reactive protein test done at the same time (it’s a test which also detects inflammation in the body).

What was the range for that saturation reading?

[magsyh in reply to Jazzw]

Yes I have high inflammation it has been creeping up for past 5 years. I think the range was 20- 45%

[a1glenn]

I tried Armour for about a year. Did horrible. I tried so long because Synthroid wasn’t working either. My doctor convinced me to try it again. I am doing better now than I have in a very long time. I’m also taking t3. I split my does of Synthroid 150. Half in the morning and half before bed. The inflammation is gone! Hope you get it worked out.

[pennyannie]

Hello Magsyh :

So this seems an issue with any form of thyroid hormone replacement other than a German brand so presume it's more about the excipients used in the formulation of the tablets rather than the thyroid hormone itself.

If that is the case there is a liquid T4 preparation - has this been tried ?

We do still need optimal vitamins and minerals and inflammation and any physiological stress ( emotional or physical ) can have a bearing on how well we can utilise the medication.

[jendwall]

I needed to split my dose when I took NDT. Early morning and about 3pm. Others need to split in 3, and of course some just take it all at once. It's an individual thing.

Also, cortisol issues and low iron/ferritin can interfere with taking NDT or T3 successfully.

[Gem5987]

Hi! I was on Armour 1 grain and it worked well for a while but then the manufacturer changed and then it didn’t seem to work very well at all. I also tried to increase but felt worse. According to your test results it looks like you just need an increase of levothyroxine. Probably 75 mcg would help.