Back pain and hypothyroid

[lesel]

Have just spent a day in accident and emergency with the most awful upper back pain with cramping, I am taking thyroxine and believe I am adequately medicated but could this back pain be caused by hypothyroid as it keeps coming on for no apparent reason - although this episode was the worst. No reason was found for pain despite having chest and back xrays and blood tests and ecg

[SlowDragon Administrator]

How much levothyroxine are you currently taking

Do you always get same brand levothyroxine

When were thyroid and vitamin levels last tested

ALWAYS test as early as possible in morning before eating or drinking anything other than water and last dose levothyroxine 24 hours before test

What vitamin supplements are you currently taking

[lesel in reply to SlowDragon]

100mcgs levo, always actavis brand. Medicheck test in late October showed tsh T3 t4 within range only vitamin that was a little low but within range was b12 so am supplementing this with a half dose to bring up a little. Test was taken first thing and I delay levo until after test is done. I also take via d3 with K2 liquid, magnesium taurate and seleniumI take levo between 5 & 6am with water and then do not have anything by mouth until gone 8am.

I am "blaming" hypo for the back pain as I can't think of any other reason for it given the clear tests at hospital and I have done nothing to cause damage or strain.

[raglansleeve in reply to lesel]

I hope that someone can come up with an explanation or a hypo connection. I experience this occasionally too, and am having quite a bad episode tonight. When it happens, it usually lasts for a couple (or three) days and then resolves. It seems to go away for weeks (or even a couple of months) at a time when I increase my T4 dose (I'm still titrating up and am not sure if I'm at a good dose yet). The pain covers the area between my shoulder blades and up into the bottom of my neck. I simply can't get into a comfortable position. Is yours similar?

[lesel in reply to raglansleeve]

Oh yes very similar, a cramping spasm like pain just below my right shoulder but also sharp pain around ribs when moving and as you say no position is comfortable. A few days at a time with months between episodes. Having been given all clear at hospital am clueless to the cause.

[raglansleeve in reply to lesel]

I have often thought of going to the hospital during my episodes, because I do worry that it might be heart-related. But if I was experiencing a heart attack with a more "female profile", I have now had about 15 - 20 heart attacks over the last few years. Doesn't quite sound logical, especially since I had a heart monitor on when I had my gallbladder removed and was in recovery with it for several hours as well. From what I understand, previous heart damage is evident, so you would think that they would have made some sort of note on my chart.

[lesel in reply to raglansleeve]

Yes, I only went to hospital because gp insisted I went, I am sure I would have been able to cope with some strong painkillers, still I had a thorough mot!

[jgelliss in reply to raglansleeve]

This pain might just be a gallbladder. Do you have issues with gallbladder? You might want to try digestive enzymes before each meal especially with the meals that contain more fats.

[lesel in reply to jgelliss]

I would hope gall bladder would ha e been ruled out in tests at a and e but will keep in mind, thank you

[Batty1 in reply to lesel]

It took my husband 10 years to get diagnosed with gallbladder because his pains would come and go. I have hypothyroidism and Im currently with the stiffest most painful neck and shoulders I have ever had in my life and it has given me a darn headache …. Hypothyroidism is a monster!

[jgelliss in reply to lesel]

Wishing you satisfactory resolutions.

[Hidden in reply to lesel]

Do you have the actual results? Just 'in range' isn't good enough.

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to lesel]

What were actual Ft4 and Ft3 and vitamin results and ranges

As Hidden says……results “within range “ doesn’t necessarily mean OPTIMAL

100mcg may not be high enough dose

Approx how much do you weigh in kilo

[lesel in reply to SlowDragon]

OK latest medichecks results for 12th November 2021 wereTsh. =. 42 - T3 =4.91 - t4 =16.9

For 24th Mar 2021

Tsh =. 21 - T3 = 5.23- t4 = 16.6

Vits etc for Nov 21 were

D3 = 160

B12 = 59.3

Folate =12.1

Ferritin = 55.7

Autoimmunity were

Nov 21 = thyroglobulin 346 peroxidase = 560

They were 425 & 600 in march

Weight 80k and height 5ft 7ins

Although my thyroid levels are towards the lower end of normal if they are raised higher I suffer angina like symptoms.

Thanks

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to lesel]

TSH. =. 42 -

T3 =4.91

t4 =16.9

For 24th Mar 2021

Tsh =. 21 - T3 = 5.23- t4 = 16.6

Vits etc for Nov 21 were

D3 = 160

B12 = 59.3

Folate =12.1

Ferritin = 55.7

Exceptionally good conversion But probably inadequate dose levothyroxine

Both Ft4 and Ft3 48% through range

Helpful calculator for working out percentage through range

chorobytarczycy.eu/kalkulator

What vitamin supplements are you currently taking

B12 very low

Folate not brilliant

Ferritin is too low

Low iron and ferritin can cause chest pain and breathlessness

High thyroid antibodies confirms autoimmune thyroid disease

Have you had coeliac blood test done

Are you now on absolutely strictly gluten free diet

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to lesel]

80kg x 1.6mcg = 128mcg

Guidelines on dose levothyroxine by weight suggests 128mcg levothyroxine as dose likely to need

Perhaps try initially increasing by 12.5mcg (cutting 25mcg tablets in half)

Which brand of levothyroxine are you currently taking

Do you always get same brand levothyroxine at each prescription

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to lesel]

Low ferritin

Look at increasing iron rich foods in diet

Eating iron rich foods like liver or liver pate once a week plus other red meat, pumpkin seeds and dark chocolate, plus daily orange juice or other vitamin C rich drink can help improve iron absorption

List of iron rich foods

dailyiron.net

Links about iron and ferritin

irondisorders.org/too-littl...

davidg170.sg-host.com/wp-co...

Great in-depth article on low ferritin

oatext.com/iron-deficiency-...

drhedberg.com/ferritin-hypo...

This is interesting because I have noticed that many patients with Hashimoto’s disease and hypothyroidism, start to feel worse when their ferritin drops below 80 and usually there is hair loss when it drops below 50.

Thyroid disease is as much about optimising vitamins as thyroid hormones

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

restartmed.com/hypothyroidi...

Post discussing just how long it can take to raise low ferritin

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

Never supplement iron without doing full iron panel test for anaemia first

Medichecks iron panel test

medichecks.com/products/iro...

Low Iron and low thyroid link

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

Posts discussing why important to do full iron panel test

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

Chicken livers if iron is good, but ferritin low

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

[lesel in reply to SlowDragon]

Thank you for all this info, will definitely increase iron and ferritin as a starter and see how I go, already started taking b12 supplement after november check. Not keen to increase levo as if levels go much higher than where I am I have, as I have said, angina like pain, also insomnia and feel jittery.I have same brand levo, actavis.

[kiefer in reply to lesel]

Have you ruled out myofascial trigger points? Trigger points can even refer pain to other areas of the body and be mistaken for joint problems. For example, the anterior scalenes (located in the neck area) can cause the deltoid muscle to ache if you try to lift your arm laterally. Trigger points are often confused as "pressure points". Don't go down that road.

Find a competent massage therapist who understands myofascial TP release techniques (or you can learn to do it). You'll need a tool (theracane is useful) if you're going to treat your upper back area yourself. A tennis ball stuffed in a long sock also works. You knead the area with a back-and-forth motion (1 inch distance) until the pain subsides. This may require multiple treatments throughout the day for a period of days or longer.

Most doctors miss this since they aren't trained in treating muscles. Muscles are considered the "orphan organ". They're not discussed with any great seriousness in medical school. Be sure to video record the look on your doctor's face if you ask him about trigger points. It will be very memorable.

This information usually falls on deaf ears as it requires more than just an increase in thyroid dosing but maybe it will help you. Myofascial pain is associated with low thyroid function but not everyone with thyroid disease develops trigger points.

Here is an illustration of where some of your pain may be originating:

A dull ache underneath your shoulder blades could be the rhomboids.

Illustration of Trapezius trigger points

[lesel in reply to kiefer]

Thank you so much - I will definitely investigate, I go to an acupuncture therapist and will discuss with her also as she is very knowledgable and certainly more open minded than western trained doctors. She also does soft tissue massage and knows her stuff.Thanks again.

[Marz]

Many of the aches and pains we experience are due to muscle tensions and trigger points forming. Yes being Hypo plays a part too. Have you found a suitable stretching routine ?

[lesel in reply to Marz]

Yes I do qigong tai chi which stretches me nicely and lots of walking. I would recommend qigong to anybody whatever their fitness level.

[Marz in reply to lesel]

Sounds good ! I have practised yoga for many years and swam miles when living in Crete for 15 years.

I have chronic spinal issues and have a stretch that helps that horrid glitch affecting shoulder blades/neck ! Typing on my phone doesn't help either ! 🙃

[Simplyred57 in reply to Marz]

Hi Marz , which stretch helps I have a knot on my right shoulder blade up to the side of my neck that I really can’t get any relief from 😩

[Marz in reply to Simplyred57]

Lie on your bed on your left side. Arms outstretched at shoulder level flat to the bed ( as much as possible ! ) Slowly bring the right arm up and over to meet the left hand - hold. Repeat. If it's the left shoulder then reverse procedure ! Good Luck 🌻

[Simplyred57 in reply to Marz]

Thank you , just tried it shoulder clicking like mad but feels nice 😊

[Marz in reply to Simplyred57]

Found Physio stick man pic - he suggests holding for the count of 12 and complete 3 times !

Also gently pull head to the left by holding top of the head - hold for 20 secs and complete 4 times ... 🌻

[wellness1 in reply to Marz]

Hi Marz, sorry to be so dense, but I'm having a hard time picturing this. Do you have a link to a description of the stretch with a picture?

[Marz in reply to wellness1]

Sorry no ! The physio just drew a stick man pic for me. Maybe try doing it - and see how you go 🌻

[Marz in reply to wellness1]

Have found the pic ! Lie on your left side - relax bent right knee over onto the bed/floor. Head is turned towards outstretched left arm. Right arm is outstretched away from the body at shoulder level. Breathe in and out bringing the right arm up and over towards the left hand and hold for count of 12. Do it 3 times .... hope that helps!

[wellness1 in reply to Marz]

So kind of you to go looking, thanks Marz. Yes, that's clear. A nice, gentle posterior shoulder stretch.

[wellness1 in reply to lesel]

qi gong and tai chi are brilliant. Have you ever tried soft tissue therapy? We tend to think in terms of muscles, but it can be worth seeing if the issue is with the fascia. I'm reading a book now you might be interested in.

Amanda Oswald, Living Pain Free, Healing Chronic Pain with Myofascial Release.

Simplyred57

[lesel in reply to wellness1]

Thanks, may well investigate and see if I can get a read of this book. I do have regular acupuncture and soft tissue massage which is really good.

[Simplyred57 in reply to wellness1]

Thanks will take a look at that x