Chronic back pain

[Ladybex]

Still no diagnosis and am having fever at night and extremely bad back ache.

Sensitive to light ... waiting to see Consultant

But ... are these symptoms common with an under active thyroid... And what’s the best pain relief..

TIA

[greygoose]

Fever is not a hypo symptom that I know of. But, back pain can be. Have you had any thyroid blood tests done?

[Ladybex in reply to greygoose]

Yes I have came back positive then 2nd one came back negative ...

[greygoose in reply to Ladybex]

Sorry, but that tells us nothing. We need the exact numbers: results and ranges. Thyroid is never as simple as 'negative' and 'positive', there are so many stages in between.

[shaws Administrator]

These are clinical symptoms of hypothyroidism:-

healthunlocked.com/user/shaws

All blood tests for thyroid hormones have to be at the very earliest possible, fasting (you can drink water) and allow a gap of 24 hours between last dose of thyroid hormones (if you take any) and this allows the TSH to be at its highest as that all doctors seem to look at. If you are in the UK doctors have been advised (stupidly) not to diagnose us until the TSH reaches 10 whilst other countries diagnose if TSH is above 3.

You need a full thyroid function test:

TSH, T4, T3, Free T4, Free T3 and thyroid antibodies.

Your doctors, I think, will not do all of these as they seem to be instructed that TSH and T4 is sufficient - it isn't.

We have private labs which will do these for you and follow above advice.

thyroiduk.org.uk/tuk/testin...

Put your results on a new post for comments.

GP should check B12, Vit D, iron, ferritin and folate - everything has to be optimal.

[Saya85]

You say sensitivity to light? Are your eyes really painful? Red around the iris? Vision blurred? /nausea?

These can all be signs of uveitis/iritis and need urgent ophthalmological assessment if that is the case

Lower back pain - ankylosing spondylitis SX which is another autoimmune condition goes hand in hand with iritis usually too.

If they are mild migraine type symptoms and not eye related (apart from light sensitivity) it could just be a trigger from the pain

Has this come on all of a sudden? Acute pain?.or longstanding chronic back ache?

Your symptoms don't sound necessarily linked to ankylosing or iritis but thought I would mention given the connection and autoimmune thyroid/other autoimmune condition link

[Ladybex]

Does this help ... Bloods

TSH 14 T4: 10.1 TPO abs >1300

Then I had

Normal ESR and CRP, negative ABA, ENA, anti-CCP antibodies and Rheumatoid factor ...

[Heloise in reply to Ladybex]

Yes, that does help, Ladybex. Your TPO antibodies are high which means your thyroid is being attacked and can't produce enough hormone. Your pituitary is sending out TSH (thyroid stimulating hormone) and 10 is very high. I don't understand why there is no diagnosis. We strive to keep TSH below 2. We are finding that gluten can be the culprit because it allow particles to escape into the bloodstream and the immune system goes out to get them. You really should be on a gluten free diet and adding thyroid hormone to meet your needs.

The thyroid is very involved in smooth muscle and I developed muscle knots along my back so it's a possibility that is the cause of your pain. I'm sorry you are being treated so poorly.

[Ladybex in reply to Heloise]

Thank you Heloise ... I have awful flares and Doctors not doing anything here ... At my wits end

[Saya85 in reply to Heloise]

Actually I think it's worse than you ever realised

Her post says TSH 14 (!) And t4 10.1

I hope it's the other way round but either way I agree- definitely hypo

[Ladybex in reply to Saya85]

I’m in A lot of pain and no proper meds .. my pain relief medication not working .. feel so ill

[Ladybex in reply to Ladybex]

Her post is correct Saya

[Saya85 in reply to Ladybex]

That makes more sense the TSH is 10 and t4 is 14 rather than the way you wrote it

Even so- that's is far out of range and i am not one but surprised you feel that way. I feel at death's door if my TSH rises above 3(!)

Old guidelines said TSH above 10 should be treated but new guidelines say the range should be under 4.

You haven't posted any ranges next to your result so it is difficult to know what the doctor is using to base his judgements but if he hasn't seen those and thought they were culpable for your symptoms then I would push him to treat you or get another doctor to look at it.

In the mean time try using magensium oil spray on your muscles for relief

I found traditional painkillers and gels and heat etc didn't even touch the pain I was in as it was actually being exacerbated by a magensium deficinies which a lot of us have

The spray worked almost immediately - you can use them as bath salts too for all over relief

[Ladybex in reply to Saya85]

Thank you Sayra I will try to find out .. wishing you well

[PiggySue]

If your pain is extreme, please also check if you can put your chin to your chest? I also thought the same as Saya85, as my husband experienced this. The other thing to be really careful of is the chin to chest test.

Please call an ambulance if you cannot put your chin to chest, or it is too painful to do. This can be a sign of a haemorrhage (my mother had one) or meningitis , you would get the light sensitivity with either. Or call 111, who will probably get an ambulance for you.

I really don't want to scare you, (and if you can use the computer/phone, you are probably okay (ish)) I just want to make sure that you don't ignore something serious.

I hope you are ok and that you find answers, and feel better soon.

[Ladybex in reply to PiggySue]

Thank you and I can put my chin to my chest... waiting for my daughter to come but I really appreciate your message and everyone’s

Really nice to know I’m not alone and god bless you all thank you x

[Heloise in reply to Ladybex]

Really hope you can try being gluten free and dairy free and add omega 3 fats. You can take 2,000 mgs and see if it gives you pain relief. Do find a different doctor if you can. This is an awful situation.

[Ladybex in reply to Heloise]

Am now going to A&E as GP can’t help and I’m in agony will keep updated

[Heloise in reply to Ladybex]

Terrible situation, insist on more consideration. Stand up for yourself as it seems they keep wanting to blame the patient for not doing their job which a correct diagnosis and a good treatment.

[Ladybex in reply to Heloise]

Thank you ... went to A&E and now have strong pain killers and waiting to have an urgent MRI back scan.. thanks Heloise

[Heloise in reply to Ladybex]

Good! Try to nail down whether you have ankylosing spondylitis or coda equinus. or NOT. I think they are food or thyroid related. Get the magnesium oil. Please let us know how you do.

[Ladybex in reply to Heloise]

I will Heloise thank you so much 😊

[Ladybex in reply to Heloise]

Hi Heloise ... MRI came back ok as did new blood tests. GP now saying it may be fibromyalgia?? I’m still waking up around 2am with a fever which keeps me awake 2-3 hours. I have to get up at 6am so consequently very tired in the day ... your thoughts always welcome and hope your ok 😊

[Heloise in reply to Ladybex]

Could they NOT see anything that would cause pain on that MRI? I had so many pinched nerves when I started levo that may later have turned into adhesions and my spine actually started to curve. Getting on to a natural thyroid hormone and a lot of massage treatments helped the most. But you need thyroid treatment and with ankylosing spondylitis, sugar is a factor. I think you might have an underlying infection as well. You need more than painkillers. The same problem exists in the U.S.; prescription pills serve the pharmaceutical industry much better than actual treatments. But the one pill that would be useful is thyroid. Is it possible?

I thin pennyannie gave an accurate response. Many autoimmune conditions may be involved and diet is critical. If you could stop gluten and starches and add fats like avocado and proteins with green vegetables there may be noticeable improvement in a short time.

[Ladybex in reply to Heloise]

Thanks Heloise.. changed my diet long ago .. my blood tests are now coming back ok.. it’s crazy that now Consultant is saying fibromyalgia!! Same consultant said I had Hydrothyroidism weeks before ...

[Heloise in reply to Ladybex]

Are you saying your thyroid results have changed? or are you talking about different tests. I think fibromyalgia and deficient thyroid are one and the same. they both affect the nervous system. Fibrous tissue is the result of irritation and inflammation from my reading. It's actually a protective system much like the alkaloids in the brain causing Alzheimer's. The body always does what is necessary to protect your systems. But it also needs all the nutrients necessary to do what is necessary. We know the stomach can be a barricade for digestion when it has inflammation. B12 is probably the first to GO and that's why it is helpful to add acid like HCL with meals even to metabolize the supplements, particular minerals and amino acids.

[Ladybex in reply to Heloise]

I am so confused Heloise... I was given a course of fultium-D 800 ?

I just don’t understand how I could have blood test come back different. Dr says I’m to have another one in February and meanwhile take painkillers ?

[Heloise in reply to Ladybex]

WHAT? I have to look up fultium D. Naturally D has to do with bone and calcium but why are they ignoring your thyroid results even when they can see how abnormal they were. I can't believe there has been a huge change in so little time. Ask them for a copy of your tests. They legally have to tell you at least what they were so if they refuse there are steps to take. This is abominable!

[Heloise in reply to Ladybex]

Also ask for your vitamin d result. They obviously think you need treatment but 800 is nothing you should have this.

[Ladybex in reply to Heloise]

I have to have another blood test for Vit D when I have the thyroid one again ...

So tell me DRY MOUTH and BLURRED VISION ... what would cause this Heloise ....

[Heloise in reply to Ladybex]

They have no right to confuse you. Do you have a blood relative who can speak in your behalf? I don't know if you have privacy laws like Hepa in the U.S. It's supposed to keep the patient's privacy but I think it is so they can keep information to themselves. You can allow others you name to see your medical records.

[Ladybex]

Also back has eased off but now my eyes are very sore and very sensitive to light... have made an appointment to see optician tomorrow ....

[pennyannie]

Hello again Ladybex

I had alopecia at 10 - my head was painted with iodine -

Serious acute back pain from mid 20's and I would black out with the pain - ( happened roughly 6 times over 25 odd years ) - no explanations or understanding from any doctor -

Chronic back pain and sciatica for 30 odd years - pain killers prescribed -

Iritis in my 30's - Moorfields Hospital - laser treatment in both eyes in my 30s -

Graves Disease diagnosed in my late 50s. RAI in 2005 - now with Graves Disease, thyroid eye disease, and primary hypothyroidism.

If I choose to join up my own dots, I'm with several autoimmune conditions, and I think I've been with some form of hypothyroidism since childhood.

There is a ink between iritis and ankylosing spondylitis -

Having found no help at primary care level, and my local Nhs rheumatology findings were negative for Sjogrens - but they did find that I was with low ferritin @ 22 -

I was then sent for endoscopy and colonoscopy - nothing found - given iron tablets and told by doctor I was a conundrum.

I made an private appointment with the head of the endocrinology department at my local hospital in 2016.

This endo suggested in writing to my doctor to check for hlab27 - as well as vitamin D and also suggested she arrange an iron infusion for me - he also told me he had no problem with T3 or NDT - though wouldn't/ couldn't prescribe and that I should go on the web and basically DIY.

My doctor chose to ignore this endos advice - telling me he was an idiot -

I was devastated, very unwell, and then on monotherapy for the imposed hypothyroidism following RAI for the Graves Disease.

I have stayed away from the doctor - found some relevant books - found this site -

I'm now self medicating and have decided on NDT - I am so much better -

Please don't accept the suggestion of " fibromyalgia or chronic fatigue " this is a bad medical dustbin terminology -

Can you change your doctor ? Can you get to Moorfields ?

Hope this helps a bit, I believe it's all related, and I think the thyroid is a big player in our overall health.

[Ladybex in reply to pennyannie]

Thank you pennyannie I have taken on board what you have written ... really appreciate it.. will update when I know more 😊

[Ladybex]

I take very little sugar ... natural in fruits and sometimes a little brown sugar ... I have a number of pain killers ... codeine ibuprofen tramadol and even got amitriptyline which I believe to be an antidepressant 😩

[Heloise]

Yes, amitriptyline is an antidepressant and also given as a sleep remedy. I used it for a few weeks twenty years ago and I have to say it did relieve the pain but I could not stand the side effect which came on quickly. It is addictive but to get you over this crisis it may be all right. This is another side effect.

Some common possible side effects include: Blurred vision. Constipation. Dry mouth.Jun 28, 2016

mayoclinic.org/drugs-supple...

[Ladybex in reply to Heloise]

OMG ... I have dry mouth and blurred vision Heloise ...

[Ladybex in reply to Ladybex]

And also constipation

[Heloise in reply to Ladybex]

Yes, drugs often create more problems. Even ibuprofen, etc. They either affect your stomach, your kidneys or your liver. Can you possibly load up on safer supplements. Magnesium is good because if you overdose you will have bowel movements, turmeric and curcumin are called the best anti inflammatories and omega 3 at high doses are also healthy.

So what do you think about doing ANYTHING before your Feb. appointment or are you just going to wait?

[Ladybex in reply to Heloise]

I am calling GP in the morning and I have only been taking paracetamol ... I am also seeing optician tomorrow as I’m worried bout my eyes now

Really appreciate your replies Heloise thank you so much

[Ladybex in reply to Ladybex]

Also started taking SEVEN SEAS OMEGA 3 joint care

[Heloise in reply to Ladybex]

I really wish I could do more. I get so incensed about these physicians.

Good for the omegas. Your mitochondria lives on fats. How about coconut oil put in a smoothy or tea. Your brain, heart and retina I believe use the most. Omega 7 is also helpful used for dry eyes.

[Ladybex in reply to Heloise]

I will buy some tomorrow... this has been going on since March last year .. I am exhausted ... thank you dear cyber buddy for all your help..

[Heloise in reply to Ladybex]

💖💖💖

[Ladybex in reply to Heloise]

Another thing Heloise

I go to bed and fall asleep very quick ... but most nights I wake up between 2-3am with a fever and a rash on my arms ... never happens in the day time only at night. Can’t get back to sleep for 2 hours so left exhausted the next day ...

[Heloise in reply to Ladybex]

Also very typical. Your cortisol starts to rev up and your thyroid is at it's lowest at that time. It usually doesn't cause this with healthy people so I don't know the exact reaction but when your adrenals can't produce the cortisol you need it uses adrenaline and epinephrine and that could wake you up. It's really about the nervous system and being in the fight or flight state chronically. I wonder if you went to sleep much earlier....in fact a method for insomniacs was to wake up every morning at 4 a.m. for a time but I don't think it would help in your case.

Anything by this man is very clear and informative.

youtube.com/results?search_...

[Ladybex in reply to Heloise]

I have tried going to bed different times but still always wake up between 2-3 ... I will look at the link you have sent me... thank you again Heloise your a star... will keep you updated 😊

[pennyannie in reply to Ladybex]

Hey there me again, we were both found negative for Sjogrens - weren't we.

Your dryness and pain is in your eyes and your mouth - maybe, in part, consider :-

Burning Mouth Syndrome - that might explain some of your symptoms -

What causes it - No one knows exactly - but some possible causes include:-

hormone changes - stress, anxiety or depression - problem with immune system -

damage to nerves controlling taste or pain - toothpaste - mouth wash - badly fitting dentures - allergic to material used in the denture -

Medical conditions that can cause it :-

acid reflux - thrush - nutritional deficiencies ( iron, B12 or folic acid ) - diabetes - and guess what comes next - yes, you've got it - thyroid problems -

Does this help a bit with your health jigsaw ?

Good luck at the optician -

I went to my optician thinking I had conjunctivitis and he just took one look and immediately sent me to Moorfields that same day where it transpired I had iritis

[Ladybex in reply to pennyannie]

Thank you and noted your comments ... wishing you well pennyannie

[Marz in reply to Ladybex]

Your thyroid results above scream Hashimotos. You say your results are now fine - do you have them to hand ? Your anti-bodies are very high - so doubt they would disappear quickly.

I have read your reply on the Fibro Forum and am concerned you are not being correctly treated. Do you have results for B12 - Folate - Ferritin - VitD. Please read the excellent replies above from Heloise and others ...

Inflammation can be the cause of pain as I know only too well. 😆

[Heloise in reply to Marz]

Hi Marz, how are you? I just posted something to Ladybex on her other question. I wonder if you know anything about lactic acidosis? Darren Schmidt had a part in the Mold Summit and the interview was intriguing and impresses even more about out toxic system overwhelming out thyroid, etc. Burning sugar (processed foods)

causes 4 waste products - acetate, ethanol, aldahy

de and ?. These build up and unless you detox well or nullify the ingredients these create dirty blood. In his case he also had mold which put him in a vulnerable position and I'm sure Lyme patients may also suffer the same. Anyway he is having a lot of success with his patients and here is one of his videos if you care to look into it.

youtube.com/watch?v=4QrWzaf...(Not working as expected?)

[Marz in reply to Heloise]

Will do my best to MAKE time to watch the video - thank you 😊 Doing fine with Intensive physio x 3 each week. Learning new things ! I can see that lactic is a problem as a Muscle Therapist I had moons ago said my muscles were like chewed chewing gum - yikes 😊 Hope you are good ...