Article on vitamin d levels

[Pastelart]

Did anyone see this on Apple News today

apple.news/ApDQ7jJwgQsudpWU...

[helvella Administrator]

The paper referred to was published in 2018.

bmj.com/content/362/bmj.k3225

I looked at Cited By section of the paper on PubMed:

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?li...

One paper seemed interesting.

Circulating Alpha-Tocopherol Levels, Bone Mineral Density, and Fracture: Mendelian Randomization Study

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

After D comes E?

(More jocularly than seriously.)

[Pastelart in reply to helvella]

All a bit above me, I’m afraid 🤪 I’ve always believed that if one eats a healthy balanced diet and does some form of exercise, there is no need for supplementation unless we have a malabsorption problem or are deficient for some reason. I strongly believe that the medical profession should routinely test vitamins and minerals to stop the misuse of said supplements.

[bantam12]

I've always had very low VitD and cannot tolerate supplements so I ignore my levels which hasn't done me any harm over the years. People often don't appreciate the knock on effect of raising calcium with VitD supps so they take massive doses and this can be dangerous !

[Pastelart]

The doctors need to test and learn to interpret the results, then prescribe accordingly. My husband has chronic illness anaemia and vitamin b12 deficiency anaemia, was born with pernicious anaemia, but they refuse to test for it and say that there’s no point in treating him. In fact, all his GP wanted to talk about, was getting him to sign a respect form (DNR) So frustrating, as I know he would benefit from injections. 🤬

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to Pastelart]

If he has pernicious anaemia he MUST have B12 injections

B12 supplements are inadequate for someone with PA

Ask advice on PAS

healthunlocked.com/pasoc

[Pastelart in reply to SlowDragon]

I’ve tried and begged, but they just shut me down. Don’t know where to go from here!

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to Pastelart]

PAS have a few letters/guidelines on getting B12 injections

b12deficiency.info/signs-an...

[wellness1]

Very interesting, but I won't stop supplementing on the basis of this. I think there's a lot to pick apart here. For one thing, a study he links to showing "...that patients with high blood levels or taking large doses of vitamin D (above 800IU) had an unexpected increased risk of falls and fractures" had participants taking a single annual dose of 500,000 IU of cholecalciferol. Perhaps this massive single dose given to elderly women produced results not comparable to lower daily intake? I understand wanting to isolate the effect of one substance, but if study participants aren't taking vitamin K2 and magnesium they may experience different effects to those who do.

I've not waded through all of the comments following the article, but they're quite interesting. Many took issue with this statement, which struck me as a bit facile: "We should also trust that thousands of years of evolution would cope with a natural drop in vitamin D levels in winter without us snapping our limbs."

Thanks for sharing this, Pastelart.

[penny]

Dr Kendrick’s latest post is about vits C and D and heart health. Dr Coimbra advocates 10,000iu per day and treats autoimmune conditions with 100,000iu plus per day and I’ve not read of any excess falls or bad side effects on the Vit D Protocol web pages, HOWEVER, his protocol is done under medical supervision only.

[RedApple Administrator in reply to penny]

penny, 'Dr Coimbra advocates 10,000iu per day and treats autoimmune conditions with 100,000iu plus per day'

I for one, would be incredibly unwell on such a dose. I sincerely hope this Dr Coimbra understands that there are some (possibly many) who cannot tolerate vitamin D supplements at all. But of course, those people won't glorify his reputation, so I guess he'd just wave us on our way.

[bantam12 in reply to RedApple]

"I for one, would be incredibly unwell on such a dose"

Me to !!

[helvella Administrator in reply to bantam12]

In case it is of any interest:

Br Med J. 1980 Mar 22; 280(6217): 831.

doi: 10.1136/bmj.280.6217.831

PMCID: PMC1600958

PMID: 7370684

Hypercalcaemia associated with tuberculosis.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

[Pastelart in reply to helvella]

We’ve just been to see hubby’s cardiologist and I mentioned his deficiencies and his quality of life. Well, he totally agreed with me and said that he wouldn’t have thought of that. Blood tests done and he has assured us full support! Eureka 🥳

[bantam12 in reply to helvella]

Interesting, I doubt patients with hypercalcemia would be easily investigated for tuberculosis, it's hard enough to get the medics to accept and test for hyperparathyroidism which is what I had !

[penny in reply to RedApple]

Dr Coimbra is a professor of neuroscience and has studied and used vitamin D treatments for some 20 years. He is venerated around the world for his successes in treating autoimmune conditions. I do not know Dr Coimbra but he did take the trouble to answer a query about a friend of mine who has PPMS. Your comment is slighting and unjustified; perhaps you should contact Dr Coimbra and ask him about those who cannot tolerate high doses of vitamin D, he might answer you, busy as he is. From your comments I assume that you have not listened to Dr Coimbra’s lectures or studied his academic work.

[RedApple Administrator in reply to penny]

penny, I did look into this Doctor's protocol a long time ago. I was not impressed. You clearly are, but we are all entitled to our own opinions.

[helvella Administrator in reply to penny]

I see you have mentioned Dr Coimbra.

It is likely most members have no idea who this person is. His name is Dr. Cícero Coimbra and he is in based in São Paulo, Brazil.

He has created the Coimbra Protocol which uses extremely high doses of vitamin D in a variety of clinical situations.

One of the statements used to explain that protocol is:

What is a physiological dose of vitamin D?

A physiological, safe dose of vitamin D is about 10,000 IU/day. This is the amount our own body produces when exposed to 20-30 minutes to the mid-day sun. With this daily dose, no precautions or medical supervision is necessary. It is worth noting that the IOM (Institute of Medicine) indicates that 10,000 IU/day is considered the "NOAEL"- No Observed Adverse Effect Level.

We have several members here who are intolerant of taking even tiny doses of vitamin D – such as 100 or 200. Whether D2 or D3. In any form – tablet, capsule, even topically. These members have first-hand experience of adverse effects. Which seems to undermine the claim quoted above.

There seems limited value in posting about a doctor and his protocol when it is inaccessible to the majority of members. (Most are in the UK where there are no practitioners even if they could afford the treatment.)

Please, also, if you are posting like this, our guidelines ask you to include your sources.

This is a link to the protocol site – though it does not appear to have been maintained for four years or more.

coimbraprotocol.com/

Many might also have no idea who is Dr Kendrick.

[penny in reply to helvella]

Dr Malcolm Kendrick, GP.

drmalcolmkendrick.org/

I apologise that I forget to post links at times as, if I don’t know about a person/subject mentioned, I do a search and assume that others do this.

[helvella Administrator in reply to penny]

It seems so much more helpful for one person to post a link they know, or can find quickly, rather than expect tens or hundreds of members each to do a search themselves.

It also helps avoid the situation in which people inadvertently find the "wrong" Dr Kendrick or Dr Coimbra.

[penny in reply to helvella]

I just did a quick search on Dr Coimbra:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/a...

m.facebook.com/coimbraproto...

grassrootshealth.net/blog/d...

I have not read through these but he does exist.

[Pastelart]

My friend had hypercalcemia and it took them nearly two years to diagnose bone cancer, by which time she had stage 4 cancer and only lived for a further 3 months. 😱😢

[penny in reply to Pastelart]

Sorry to hear that. I understand that Dr Coimbra’s protocol includes regular tests for hypercalcemia as this is a known possible side-effect of high dose vitamin D; which is why he insists that his protocol is overseen by a qualified doctor and should not be done without.