How to work out dosages for supplements?

[Esmielola]

Are there any hypo sufferers who know how to work out how much selenium,zinc, copper and magnesium you might need after seeing your blood test results? Or any article about dosage (s)? All hints and tips appreciated.

[SeasideSusie Remembering]

Esmielola

Can you post the results with their ranges please.

[Esmielola]

Hi Seaside. It's good to hear from you. I was just wondering how other people do this , while I contemplate the expense of having the tests done. I am having to space out any testing to go with my budget. So ,I have one more thyroid test to go in October before I can do these.

Just wanted to get an idea of how it's done rather than specifics of my own tests ( yet to be done). If that's not possible I will post again nearer the time?

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to Esmielola]

Esmielola

Dose is generally based on results but these are tests that we don't see discussed/tested here very often, if at all.

Selenium is deemed to be safe for most people at 100mcg daily, 200mcg may be OK but it's not suggested to go any higher than that unless test shows it's really low and then it might be prudent to seek guidance from a good, recommended practioner.

Zinc, I understand, is recommended to be half way through range and I've read that the ideal ratio for zinc to copper is 8:1

Testing magnesium is unreliable. About 99% of magnesium is stored in bone, muscles and soft tissues, leaving about 1% in the blood. So testing what's in the blood isn't giving an accurate picture of our magnesium status.

A red cell magnesium test is the better indicator of magnesium status, not the standard serum magnesium test.

If you want to read the science, this information is from this article:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

[Esmielola in reply to SeasideSusie]

Thanks so much. Your reply has given me loads of quality advise so that I can research it further on my own if need be. Feeling guilty that no-one else asks about this (ie doses). Why is that? (rhetorical question!?). I tend to stick to NHS website guidelines when adding anything 'tablet' wise.

🙂 👍

[humanbean]

Just a suggestion - feel free to ignore it...

This is how I dose vitamins and minerals when I don't know optimal levels, any research I've done has been vague and/or uninformative, and I've been given a low result after a test.

1) I assume that a safe optimal level is mid-range to top of range (although I am aware that magnesium testing is "dodgy" and can't be trusted).

2) I look at the Dietary Reference Intake for the nutrient I'm interested in. Note that different countries have their own recommended levels of nutrients :

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dieta...

Recommended levels are generally conservative.

If I look at selenium as an example, using the link I've given above :

These are daily intakes :

Highest Estimated Average Requirement (EAR) = 45mcg

Highest Recommended Dietary Allowance (RDA) for males = 55mcg

Highest Recommended Dietary Allowance (RDA) for females = 55mcg

Tolerable upper intake levels (UL) = 280mcg

3) I would look at supplements for sale and see what dosages are offered, and how many tablets /times a day I'm expected to take it (not all supplements are one a day). I looked just now and see that lots of selenium supplements are offered at a dose of 200mcg per day in one tablet. It seems to be reasonable given the UL above so I would try it for a month. Note that SeasideSusie has some info on the best kinds of selenium supplements to buy - not all supplements are made of the same active ingredient and some are superior to others.

4) I would also make sure that I knew how the body excreted selenium if I ended up taking too much for me. I would also make sure I knew (or kept links to) the symptoms of selenium deficiency and toxicity.

5) Assuming that I got no side effects I would continue. But if I got side effects I would stop dosing for a couple of weeks, then re-start at 1 tablet every two days, or one tablet on Monday, Wednesday and Friday, or half a tablet a day.

6) Personal anecdote : I started taking selenium at 200mcg per day but felt unwell on it. In the end I bought selenium at 100mcg per day and was fine on that. I take breaks from all my supplements from time to time.

7) Note that taking a higher dose of some supplements for fewer days of the week can be a good money-saving idea. But it isn't ideal for everything. I take vitamin C every day, for example.

[Esmielola in reply to humanbean]

Dear humanbean, That is very kind of you. you've given me so much more to go by, and all makes perfect sense. Yes to starting slow, and watching for symptoms. I don't know much about Selenium as yet. All I know is that a private GP advised I could take 100-200mgs on ALTERNATE days. So the minimum would be equivalent to 50mgs a day to start with. But I don't know anything else about it.

More difficult ( given that I know next to nothing about the above!) is Magnesium, which seems like a very important mineral in small amounts in the body, compared to calcium. Seaside Susie sent me an article called 'Magnesium Basics' by 2 research doctors. As magnesium is largely stored in the body, and not detectable in the tissues, and there is only 1% in the blood serum, no test is completely conclusive. Whether to take it it thus worrying. It also worries me that so many roads for this illness seems to lead to more and more blood tests! I am taking it all very slow, so as to feel some sense of safety,rather than reaching for instant solutions.

It never worried me when I used to take Epsom Salts baths, ( all magnesium) however now I cannot bathe ,so no need to worry any more!)

[humanbean in reply to Esmielola]

Excess magnesium is excreted by the kidneys, not stored in the body - as long as the kidneys have some function and are able to do this. I think your kidneys would have to be in seriously bad condition for magnesium to start building up in the body, and you'd almost certainly already know about your kidneys being an issue.

Personally, I take enough magnesium citrate powder in water to supply me with roughly 250mg - 300mg per day (when I remember to take it). There are several other kinds of magnesium supplement apart from magnesium citrate and its up to you to choose the one most suited to your needs and health problems.

drjockers.com/best-magnesiu...

naturalnews.com/046401_magn...

afibbers.org/magnesium.html

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/291...

I don't know much about Selenium as yet. All I know is that a private GP advised I could take 100-200mgs on ALTERNATE days.

Bear in mind that doctors get no training in nutrition, so they aren't the most reliable sources of information on supplements and doses. Your own research will almost certainly be more reliable. Just don't rely on one source and one source only - branch out and read widely.

[humanbean in reply to humanbean]

I should also have mentioned that there is not really much point in testing magnesium because the tests are not reliable. As long as your kidney function is okay you would be in little or no danger if you were taking a sensible dose of magnesium.

You could look at this link (which I gave earlier), look up the info on magnesium and decide what dose you want to take from that.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dieta...

If you decide to take a supplement for magnesium don't take more than is suggested on the bottle.

You should keep info on magnesium deficiency and toxicity handy from several sources.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magne...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyper...

[Esmielola in reply to humanbean]

Oh dear! This is a lot more complicated than I was thinking it might be. I have just spent HOURS looking at brands of magnesium. My search terms may need tweeking a bit! Keep on finding all sorts of variations in terms of 1) dosage 2) dubious, and not-so-dubious purity of 'fillers'/incipients (? my spelling is wrong?. ) 3) mixing of different types of magnesium. Not really a question, more a general complaint about the process! Wouldn't it be great if the manufacturers were required to be compliant with the high safety standards set by an organisation such as NICE or the AA even!