tiredness at 71

[mstp]

Is it normal aged 71 to feel lively in the morning and then wiped out in the afternoon? Am I asking too much to feel normal all day?

[SeasideSusie Remembering]

Mstp

What are your current test results for thyroid and vitamins? Maybe you are undermedicated or have low vitamin levels.

Can you post your results, with their reference ranges (important), so that we can try and help.

[mstp in reply to SeasideSusie]

I'm on T3 only and had a Blue Horizon Thyroid Gold test recently. I collected the blood at 8am. Here are the results:

CRP 1.50 <5.0 mg/L

Ferritin 82.9 13 - 150 ug/L

Magnesium 0.77 0.66 - 0.99 mmol/L

Cortisol (Random) 458.0 6am - 10am 166 - 507 nmol/L

TSH L 0.02 0.27 - 4.20 mU/L New range & unit

T4 Total L 5.4 66 - 181 nmol/L

Free T4 L 0.5 12.0 - 22.0 pmol/L

Free T3 4.86 3.1 - 6.8 pmol/L New range

Anti-Thyroidperoxidase abs <9.0 <34 IU/mL New units

Anti-Thyroglobulin Abs 16 <115 IU/mL New units

Vitamin D (25 OH) 67 50 - 75 Adequate 76 - 200 Optimal

Vitamin B12 520 145 - 569 pmol/L

Serum Folate 29.60 8.83 - 60.8 nmol/L

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to mstp]

mstp

How much T3 are you taking?

Do you split your dose into 2 or 3 during the day or take it all at once?

When did you take your last dose before the test?

**

Vitamin D (25 OH) 67 50 - 75 Adequate 76 - 200 Optimal

This is on the low side. The Vit D Society and Grassroots Health recommend a level of 100-150nmol/L, with a recent blog post on Grassroots Health mentioning a study which recommends over 125nmol/L.

If you wish to improve your level then to reach the recommended level from your current level, you could supplement with 3,500-4,000iu D3 daily.

Retest after 3 months.

Once you've reached the recommended level then a maintenance dose will be needed to keep it there, which may be 2000iu daily, maybe more or less, maybe less in summer than winter, it's trial and error so it's recommended to retest once or twice a year to keep within the recommended range. This can be done with a private fingerprick blood spot test with an NHS lab which offers this test to the general public:

vitamindtest.org.uk/

There are important cofactors needed when taking D3.

D3 aids absorption of calcium from food and Vit K2-MK7 directs the calcium to bones and teeth where it is needed and away from arteries and soft tissues where it can be deposited and cause problems such as hardening of the arteries, kidney stones, etc.

D3 and K2 are fat soluble so should be taken with the fattiest meal of the day, D3 four hours away from thyroid meds if taking D3 as tablets/capsules/softgels, no necessity if using an oral spray.

For D3 I like Doctor's Best D3 softgels, they are an oil based very small softgel which contains just two ingredients - D3 and extra virgin olive oil, a good quality, nice clean supplement which is budget friendly. Some people like BetterYou oral spray but this contains a lot of excipients and works out more expensive.

For Vit K2-MK7 I like Vitabay or Vegavero brands which contain the correct form of K2-MK7 - the "All Trans" form rather than the "Cis" form. The All Trans form is the bioactive form, a bit like methylfolate is the bioactive form of folic acid.

Magnesium helps D3 to work. We need magnesium so that the body utilises D3, it's required to convert Vit D into it's active form, and large doses of D3 can induce depletion of magnesium. So it's important we ensure we take magnesium when supplementing with D3.

Magnesium comes in different forms, check to see which would suit you best and as it's calming it's best taken in the evening, four hours away from thyroid meds if taking magnesium as tablets/capsules, no necessity if using topical forms of magnesium.

naturalnews.com/046401_magn...

drjockers.com/best-magnesiu...

**

Vitamin B12 520 145 - 569 pmol/L

Again, this is on the low side. According to an extract from the book, "Could it be B12?" by Sally M. Pacholok:

"We believe that the 'normal' serum B12 threshold needs to be raised from 200 pg/ml to at least 450 pg/ml because deficiencies begin to appear in the cerebrospinal fluid below 550".

"For brain and nervous system health and prevention of disease in older adults, serum B12 levels should be maintained near or above 1000 pg/ml."

If you want to improve your level you could take a good quality, bioavailable B Complex. My choice is Thorne Basic B. If you look for another brand then look for the words "bioavailable" or "bioactive" and avoid any that contain Vit C as this keeps the body from using the B12 included in the supplement. Vit C and B12 should be taken 2 hours apart.

**

Serum Folate 29.60 8.83 - 60.8 nmol/L

This isn't too bad, folate is recommended to be at least half way through range so with that range anything from 35 to top of range. The B Complex will help this too.

**

Ferritin 82.9 13 - 150 ug/L

Ferritin is recommended to be half way through range and this is spot on.

**

If you decide to supplement then don't start all supplements at once. Start with one, give it a week or two and if no adverse reaction then add the next one. Again, wait a week or two and if no adverse reaction add the next one. Continue like this. If you do have any adverse reaction then you will know what caused it.

[mstp in reply to SeasideSusie]

Thanks SeasideSusie that's interesting. I hadn't realised I was low in Vitamins D and B12. I will try to rectify that. In answer to your questions:

How much T3 are you taking? 62.5 mcg

Do you split your dose into 2 or 3 during the day or take it all at once? I take it all at once every morning.

When did you take your last dose before the test? 24 hours before

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to mstp]

mstp

Do you split your dose into 2 or 3 during the day or take it all at once? I take it all at once every morning.

Have you ever tried splitting the dose? Some people are fine taking it all in one dose, some find splitting the dose works better and eliminates "slumps" later in the day. If you've not tried splitting it then it might be worth experimenting.

When did you take your last dose before the test? 24 hours before

We always advise that the last dose of T3 should be 8-12 hours before the test, splitting the dose and adjusting time the day before if necessary. This then gives a measure of the normal amount of circulating hormone. By leaving 24 hours this gives a false low FT3 result.

[mstp]

Hi Seaside Suzy Taking the dose in two or three doses didnt really agree with me. I felt much better when I was taking it altogether. I didnt realise that about taking the last dose 8 - 12 hours before a test. So do you think that means my level of T3 is probably pretty good really? It sounds as if the problem may lay at the door of the Vitamins D3 and B12 doesnt it? I think I'll try to improve those and see how I go. Thanks very much for your advice. Greatly appreciated.

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to mstp]

Mstp

So do you think that means my level of T3 is probably pretty good really?

Well, it will be better than this result. It's not possible to say accurately what it would be but some people say it could be up to 20% more but I don't think anyone really knows.

If you do better with once a day dosing then stick with what's right for you.

[JAmanda]

You could try adding a small amount of T3 in the early afternoon to see if that helps.

[Sleepyachy]

Hi , I'm the opposite. I wake up still tired. Even after a decent night's sleep.

I'm 38 on bad days feel about 90. Good days I'd say 75.x

[HighlandMo]

This isn’t advice just a “me too” but in reverse! I’m also 71 and I’m just no good at mornings and perk up in the afternoon and evening. I’ve always been sluggish in the morning and now I’m retired it’s such a relief not to have to push myself into action before I’m ready. I’ve just had Medichecks results and was shocked that my vitamin D is much lower than I expected as I’ve been using Better You spray (including K2) for many months as protection from Covid. I’m going to try and improve that.

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to HighlandMo]

HighlandMo

I’ve just had Medichecks results and was shocked that my vitamin D is much lower than I expected as I’ve been using Better You spray (including K2) for many months as protection from Covid. I’m going to try and improve that.

Do you also supplement magnesium, one of the important cofactors of D3? Magnesium is needed for the body to convert D3 into it's usable form.

Magnesium comes in different forms, so if you're not already using magnesium check to see which would suit you best and as it's calming it's best taken in the evening, four hours away from thyroid meds if taking magnesium as tablets/capsules, no necessity if using topical forms of magnesium.

naturalnews.com/046401_magn...

drjockers.com/best-magnesiu...

You could always try a different form of D3, I have always done exceptionally well with Doctor's Best D3 softgels, they are a good clean supplement with no excipients, just D3 and extra virgin olive oil to aid absorption. You would need to take the softgels 4 hours away from thyroid meds.

[HighlandMo in reply to SeasideSusie]

Thank you, SeasideSusie. I do take magnesium - just one (daily suggestion and breakdown in photo is for three) of these capsules at bedtime. I think I might try the vitamin D you suggest although I like the spray because I’m so tired of swallowing loads of different capsules etc! These Magnesium Phospholipid Complex are BIG! They were recommended (along with lots of other things) by a functional doctor I saw in London quite a few years ago now. Her recommendations really helped when I was super tired and had brain fog until about 4pm each day. I haven’t had a consultation with her for several years now because although she was really good in many ways it was very expensive and when it came to thyroid she wanted me to see a private endo!

.

[Eliotf]

Mstp, I did not read all the responses. I was taking 5mcg of t3 & my 138mcg of t4 in the am. I was like you: fine in the am, but by 2 or 4 I was wiped out. Like I never took my t4. My endocrinologist said that is classic of my body not being able to convert the t4 to t3, so I started with (and am on ) another 5mcg early afternoon & life is good. So 5mcg in am & 5mcg early afternoon. T4 just am. I have heard some people will do another t3 early evening. T3 half-life is about 6 hours