Muscle/ joint pain

[Purpleprincess1963]

Hi everyone, I have underactive thyroid and have been getting muscle and joint pain, I had it last year and it went away but is now back again, can anyone recommend any remedies for me please, I take magnesium, b12 , vitamin d and selenium 💪

[Buddy195 Administrator]

Hi purpleprincess1963, do you have any blood results to share to show your current levels for thyroid hormones and key vitamins (folate, B12, Vit D and ferritin)? This would really help forum members better advise.

[Purpleprincess1963 in reply to Buddy195]

Hi buddy195 , I just found my blood test from Medichecks last November this is what was on email

TSH 1.16

FREE T3 3.93

FREE THYROXINE 18.8

THYROGLOBULIN 155

THYROID PEROXIDASE ANTIBODIES 229

I don’t know if this helps not sure what this all means also it said I have high cholesterol thanks for any advice.

[greygoose in reply to Purpleprincess1963]

We need the ranges to be able to interpret blood test results. Ranges vary from lab to lab.

Your cholesterol is high because your FT3 is low. They are linked.

No nutrient results? Painful joints and muscles can also be due to low vit D. Surely your vit D and B12 were tested before you start supplementing, no?

[Purpleprincess1963 in reply to greygoose]

Hi greygoose, I just looked at my test results and the vitamin d and b12 wasn’t checked. I am booking a private thyroid test and going to ask for everything to be checked including vitamin levels , I take vitamins as I have read what people have said are good for you on this site but definitely getting this all checked now thanks for your reply.

[Purpleprincess1963 in reply to Purpleprincess1963]

Ps what should ft3 range be? Please.

[greygoose in reply to Purpleprincess1963]

Do you mean 'range'? Or 'level'? People tend to muddle these up.

[greygoose in reply to Purpleprincess1963]

Well, it's always best to get tested before you start - that's what is always said on here - to make sure you actually need these things. And that especially goes for B12. You need a base-line with B12 because it could be so low that you need testing for Pernicious Anemia. But, once you've started taking B12 you'd have to stop if for five months to get back to that base-line. More is never better, it's only taking what you need that helps.

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to Purpleprincess1963]

High thyroid antibodies confirms autoimmune thyroid disease also called Hashimoto’s

Extremely important with Hashimoto’s to regularly retest vitamin D, folate, ferritin and B12 at least annually

What vitamin supplements are you currently taking

When were vitamin levels last tested

Hashimoto's frequently affects the gut and leads to low stomach acid and then low vitamin levels as direct result

Low vitamin levels affect Thyroid hormone working

Poor gut function with Hashimoto’s can lead leaky gut (literally holes in gut wall) this can cause food intolerances. Most common by far is gluten. Dairy is second most common.

According to Izabella Wentz the Thyroid Pharmacist approx 5% with Hashimoto's are coeliac, but over 80% find gluten free diet helps, sometimes significantly. Either due to direct gluten intolerance (no test available) or due to leaky gut and gluten causing molecular mimicry (see Amy Myers link)

Changing to a strictly gluten free diet may help reduce symptoms, help gut heal and slowly lower TPO antibodies

While still eating high gluten diet ask GP for coeliac blood test first or buy test online for under £20, just to rule it out first

healthcheckshop.co.uk/store...?

Assuming test is negative you can immediately go on strictly gluten free diet

(If test is positive you will need to remain on high gluten diet until endoscopy, maximum 6 weeks wait officially)

Trying gluten free diet for 3-6 months. If no noticeable improvement then reintroduce gluten and see if symptoms get worse

chriskresser.com/the-gluten...

amymyersmd.com/2018/04/3-re...

thyroidpharmacist.com/artic...

drknews.com/changing-your-d...

restartmed.com/hashimotos-g...

Non Coeliac Gluten sensitivity (NCGS) and autoimmune disease

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/296...

The predominance of Hashimoto thyroiditis represents an interesting finding, since it has been indirectly confirmed by an Italian study, showing that autoimmune thyroid disease is a risk factor for the evolution towards NCGS in a group of patients with minimal duodenal inflammation. On these bases, an autoimmune stigma in NCGS is strongly supported

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/300...

The obtained results suggest that the gluten-free diet may bring clinical benefits to women with autoimmune thyroid disease

nuclmed.gr/wp/wp-content/up...

In summary, whereas it is not yet clear whether a gluten free diet can prevent autoimmune diseases, it is worth mentioning that HT patients with or without CD benefit from a diet low in gluten as far as the progression and the potential disease complications are concerned

restartmed.com/hashimotos-g...

Despite the fact that 5-10% of patients have Celiac disease, in my experience and in the experience of many other physicians, at least 80% + of patients with Hashimoto's who go gluten-free notice a reduction in their symptoms almost immediately.

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to Purpleprincess1963]

Ft4 is 68% through range

But Ft3 is only 23% through range

Helpful calculator for working out percentage through range

chorobytarczycy.eu/kalkulator

Most people when adequately treated will have Ft3 at least 50-60% through range

Low ft3 levels frequently results in low vitamin levels

Low vitamin levels tend to result in poor conversion of Ft4 to Ft3

Important to test vitamin levels and supplement to maintain optimal vitamin levels

[Buddy195 Administrator]

My muscle aches improved when thyroid medication was optimal & folate, b12 and ferritin optimal. Taking Thorne Basic B daily really improved my BVitamins.

[Purpleprincess1963 in reply to Buddy195]

Thank you all for the helpful information 😃

[mistydog]

Need to stop supplements well before testing. Not sure how long, hopefully some of the gurus will advise

[Poppyseed22]

I have hashimotos, is it the menopause? Or peri. The only reason I ask as I am feeling the same. My body feels like an old woman the joint pain and muscle pain is horrendous. As a process of elimination have gone HRT. I have been trying to do it naturally but have decided to trial the bio identical gel for 3mth to see how I feel. Due to symptoms of hashimotos and menopause being similar, I have decided to give this a go now, as I have made all the other lifestyle changes. My medichecks bloods came back that I have high cholesterol too and the menopause can cause that also as can the thyroid. I am on plant sterols from British supplements for my cholesterol. My oestradiol was 50 which very low.

[TrishG67 in reply to Poppyseed22]

Hi poppyseed22 🤞 for you the HRT works. Similar to you, I struggled for years with muscle/joint pain trying many natural and lifestyle changes to manage the menopause, until it got debilitating. It was actually my private Endo who suggested trialling HRT, as like you say many thyroid symptoms are also menopause symptoms. I am just starting month 5 on the estrogel and utrogestan and the improvement is massive. I still have thyroid symptoms as I am working to get the dose of NDT to the sweet spot but huge improvements so far 👍. Purpleprincess1963. Definitely worth you looking into. Good luck

[Purpleprincess1963 in reply to TrishG67]

Hi ladies, I started my menopause at 40 which is quite young l had loads of different symptoms which were off and on this went on for ages I am now 57 a couple of years ago I thought this has just gone on to long and to cut a long story short I went to my doctors who happened to have a Italian lady standing in for my doctor, she was brilliant said I am sending you for tests a week later she phoned me and said it’s your thyroid I blamed everything on my menopause but thinking back now I don’t think it was . I see a gynaecologist a couple of months ago and she gave me estoril which really helped it gave me more energy and also going to take more vitamin d as people say that helps, I am going for blood test soon but going private as my new doctors don’t care about anything 😡. I think my thyroxine needs to be higher on 50 at the moment and when it was put up last year I felt really well, it’s such a struggle I feel for everyone on here I will just be glad to get rid of the pain it makes me irritable as I was a energetic person before all this .

[HashiFedUp]

Its very common with hashimoto’s patients. i have Celebrex - cox2 inhibitor - it changed my life. Eliminate arthritis first though via GP blood tests etc.