Not been on here in ages, however thyroid may b... - Thyroid UK

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Not been on here in ages, however thyroid may be acting up

Jelley93 profile image
41 Replies

Hi I'm currently on 100mcg of Levothyroxine. I have been on 100 for around three years with no issues. Now yesterday I began to feel a bit unbalanced whilst walking and standing. This has happened before the last time was in 2018 and I believe my medication was raised from 75 to 100. I rang my Dr today asking for either a blood test or medication review. Cannot have either at the moment due to covid and telephone calls only. I was planning to see if I felt better by taking 2 100mcg thyroxine pills. to try and help. I know dosages go up in 25s but like i say my Dr isn't much cop at the moment. What would you do. Plus have you guys had the following symptoms. feeling like you are walking on a boat not vertigo but an unbalanced feeling. Im ok but just frustrated.

Thanks in advance for responses

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41 Replies
SeasideSusie profile image
SeasideSusieRemembering

Jelley93

I certainly wouldn't double my Levo from 100 to 200mcg, that would be madness.

My surgery will do routine blood tests so I don't know why yours wont do you a thyroid test when you feel unwell and it's probably connected.

You can always do a private test, there is an NHS lab which does the basic TSH, FT4 and FT3 for the general public, fingerprick test, £26.10 with code:

thyroiduk.org/help-and-supp...

Jelley93 profile image
Jelley93 in reply toSeasideSusie

Thanks for your advice. Its just so frustrating with the drs at the moment. So yes I may get a test done via the link you sent

FancyPants54 profile image
FancyPants54 in reply toJelley93

They are fobbing you off. I've had thyroid bloods done repeatedly though Covid and an ECG for my arrhythmia. I've had a face to face consultation to discuss results too.

But to be honest, you will get a better test done if you do the one SeasideSusie listed. The surgery will only do you a TSH test I expect.

Polaris profile image
Polaris

I was wondering if you'd had your B12 tested Jelley93?

Balance issues, dizziness and proprioception are strong neurological symptoms of B12 deficiency. Research shows that 40% of those with thyroid disease go on to develop B12 deficiency and vice versa (three in our family have both).

You could try writing to your GP listing full symptoms together with latest BMJ research document summary (full document behind a paywall) below asking for a telephone appointment, with someone close on standby for extra support:

b12deficiency.info/b12-writ... excellent website will answer any questions you might have)

bmj.com/content/349/bmj.g5226

Another Dutch link below explains more about testing, B12 misconceptions and the importance of early and adequate treatment.

stichtingb12tekort.nl/weten...

*Neurological symptoms should be treated without delay with B12 injections 'every other day until no further improvement', to prevent permanent damage'.

Good luck 🤞

Jelley93 profile image
Jelley93 in reply toPolaris

Hi polaris Ive not had a b12 test. Although I take a vitamin B complex with B12 daily. However I guess that might not be sufficient. Ive been fine for 3+ years. Yet on thursday the unbalanced feeling just started up again. Not major but it is there. My hypothyroidism was caused by Glandular fever in 2017.

Polaris profile image
Polaris in reply toJelley93

Hi Jelley It's a v. difficult time to be ill at the moment, especially with these symptoms and the complexity of PA/B12 def. I'm obviously not a medic and things are complicated by thyroid diagnosis, although many of the symptoms overlap. You'd normally need to see a neurologist.

Sadly, tests for PA/B12def. will be skewed if you've been taking supplements but, as you'll see from the BMJ document, there is no fully reliable test! B12 tablets may not have been absorbed (only around 1%) if you have any problems with stomach acid (v. common with thyroid disease, another term for PA being autoimmune metaplastic gastritis.)

Our family experience is that all neuro symptoms became much worse after a debilitating virus and any extreme exercise and stress seems to aggravate B12 deficiency. Martyn Hoooer, chairman of PAS, writes that many people have been misdiagnosed with ME and this hapoened to my relative.

If it were me, until better medical access is available, I'd rest as much as possible and try self injection or small, frequent daily doses of a new Lipolife liposomal form of B12 (put v. simply, it's B12 in a bubble of oil that's supposed to allow the B12 to enter the cells directly, avoiding the usual route). I've been trying this as a supplement to self injection and, so far, it appears to improve energy but it is more expensive than injections.

The risk in going down the self supplementing or self injection route is that it is then far more difficult to get a diagnosis, but better i.m.h.o. than becoming permanently disabled, as you cannot overdose on B12.

I hope you can find the right treatment soon......

Jelley93 profile image
Jelley93

Hi again, I have basically felt like this since 22/04/2021. I have a Drs call later on today. However I have been tracing my steps back and I now think I know the issue. Last year I was diagnosed with LPR reflux and was prescribed Lansoprazole. That was back in January 2020, I have now found out that Lansoprazole stops Levothyroxine absorbing into the body properly. I feel exactly like I did three years back when I was first put on Levo. So I think I may have to start from scratch. Hopefully my GP can help me

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator

I rang my Dr today asking for either a blood test or medication review. Cannot have either at the moment due to covid and telephone calls only.

That’s ludicrous. Of course you can have thyroid and vitamin levels tested

Private testing if GP remains obtuse

For full Thyroid evaluation you need TSH, FT4 and FT3 plus both TPO and TG thyroid antibodies tested.

Also EXTREMELY important to test vitamin D, folate, ferritin and B12

Any PPi like Lansoprazole will significantly lower vitamin levels

Low vitamin levels are extremely common, especially if you have autoimmune thyroid disease (Hashimoto's) diagnosed by raised Thyroid antibodies

Which brand of levothyroxine are you currently taking

Do you always get same brand

Recommended on here that all thyroid blood tests should ideally be done as early as possible in morning and before eating or drinking anything other than water .

Last dose of Levothyroxine 24 hours prior to blood test. (taking delayed dose immediately after blood draw).

This gives highest TSH, lowest FT4 and most consistent results. (Patient to patient tip)

Is this how you do your tests?

Private tests are available as NHS currently rarely tests Ft3 or thyroid antibodies or all relevant vitamins

List of private testing options

thyroiduk.org/getting-a-dia...

Medichecks Thyroid plus antibodies and vitamins

medichecks.com/products/adv...

Thriva Thyroid plus antibodies and vitamins By DIY fingerpick test

thriva.co/tests/thyroid-test

Thriva also offer just vitamin testing

Blue Horizon Thyroid Premium Gold includes antibodies, cortisol and vitamins by DIY fingerprick test

bluehorizonbloodtests.co.uk...

If you can get GP to test vitamins and antibodies then cheapest option for just TSH, FT4 and FT3

£29 (via NHS private service ) and 10% off down to £26.10 if go on thyroid uk for code

thyroiduk.org/getting-a-dia...

monitormyhealth.org.uk/

Jelley93 profile image
Jelley93 in reply toSlowDragon

Always have mercury pharma levo. When my Dr rings in about an hour. I'm going to demand blood test. Possibly emergency a box of 25 mg levo too. I'm off sick today as basically I can't function at the moment.

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator in reply toJelley93

Don’t start increasing dose until had full thyroid testing

NHS rarely tests more than TSH

Jelley93 profile image
Jelley93 in reply toSlowDragon

I just don't understand really. It's so frustrating, I've been relatively stable for three plus years then all of a sudden. My world is turned upside down. I really appreciate the advice. Is that what can happen though your feeling fine then suddenly you become under medicated. Leading to the unbalanced feelings I had three years back. I'm hoping I can get better asap due to trying hold down a job

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator in reply toJelley93

Common for menopause to upset/reduce conversion and need dose increase/change

Obviously HRT almost always results in needing dose increase in levothyroxine

Extremely important to test vitamin D, folate, ferritin and B12 annually. Common for vitamin levels to drop if under medicated and/or as we get older

Jelley93 profile image
Jelley93

Im a man, anyway I have a blood test booked for next Tuesday. They originally said 11/05/21. I told them I can't wait that long. Now im off sick for a week im also going to try and space out my levo from my breakfast. The past three years I have always took levo straight after my breakfast due to the fact I leave for work around 630 am. Hoping may see a slight improvement in the next week. Thank you for you assistance

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator in reply toJelley93

You need to click the reply button...otherwise person doesn’t get notification you replied

Please add that you’re male to your profile

9 out of 10 thyroid patients are female, so it’s often assumed female, unless forum name is obviously male

100mcg levothyroxine for male is low dose

Do you always get same brand levothyroxine at each prescription

guidelines on dose levothyroxine by weight

Even if we frequently don’t start on full replacement dose, most people need to increase levothyroxine dose slowly upwards in 25mcg steps (retesting 6-8 weeks after each increase) until eventually on, or near full replacement dose

NICE guidelines on full replacement dose

nice.org.uk/guidance/ng145/...

1.3.6

Consider starting levothyroxine at a dosage of 1.6 micrograms per kilogram of body weight per day (rounded to the nearest 25 micrograms) for adults under 65 with primary hypothyroidism and no history of cardiovascular disease.

Also here

cks.nice.org.uk/topics/hypo...

gp-update.co.uk/Latest-Upda...

Traditionally we have tended to start patients on a low dose of levothyroxine and titrate it up over a period of months. RCT evidence suggests that for the majority of patients this is not necessary and may waste resources.

For patients aged >60y or with ischaemic heart disease, start levothyroxine at 25–50μg daily and titrate up every 3 to 6 weeks as tolerated.

For ALL other patients start at full replacement dose. For most this will equate to 1.6 μg/kg/day (approximately 100μg for a 60kg woman and 125μg for a 75kg man).

If you are starting treatment for subclinical hypothyroidism, this article advises starting at a dose close to the full treatment dose on the basis that it is difficult to assess symptom response unless a therapeutic dose has been trialled.

BMJ also clear on dose required

bmj.com/content/368/bmj.m41

bestpractice.bmj.com/topics...

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator

How much do you weigh approx in kilo?

Jelley93 profile image
Jelley93 in reply toSlowDragon

95.25kg- 15 stone. Its funny because I am a very active person. I cycle to work daily around 5 mile, plus at weekends I try to do 20 miles. However I can't lose weight. It remains around 15 stone or just below. With this latest flare up it is just the unbalanced feeling I am getting.

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator in reply toJelley93

95 x 1.6 as a guideline suggests you are under medicated and will eventually need somewhere around 150mcg daily

Perhaps even more if very active

But we have to only increase in 25mcg steps

In ability to loose weight/gain weight is extremely common hypothyroid symptom

Jelley93 profile image
Jelley93 in reply toSlowDragon

Do you reckon when I have my blood test. Id be able to request a box of 25mcg to get the ball rolling. I know they are always going on about we have to see your results first. However Im pretty certain like you say I need an increase. Last time in 2018 when I last felt like this my medication was raised from 75mcg to 100mcg. Then I felt fine up until now.

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator in reply toJelley93

You don’t need to wait....last test in September clearly shows need dose increase - see/contact GP now for 25mcg dose increase in levothyroxine

Dose should have been increased immediately after September results.....very poor care

It’s why it’s so important you always get copies of results after each blood test. You can’t rely on over stretched NHS system to pick any issues up

Request vitamin D, folate, ferritin and B12 tested now

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator in reply toJelley93

As discussed in this post ...guidelines are just that ....guidelines

But can be very handy for pushing for dose increase in levothyroxine if TSH is low

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

As your TSH is way higher than recommended it should be walk in the park to get 25mcg dose increase

You may need to push harder to get next dose increase after that (assuming you need it)

Jelley93 profile image
Jelley93 in reply toSlowDragon

Yes I will try and get a box straight away tomorrow after blood test. Slow Dragon you've gave me a lot more insight than my Drs would. Thank you so much. Oh yeah just one more question. Once I have the blood test will the new results be uploaded to the nhs online record system the same day? If so ill post them onto this thread

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator in reply toJelley93

Probably takes 2-3 days.

Personally I only get tested privately as NHS rarely tests Ft3 (even when patient is on T3!) and rarely tests vitamin levels. I give copies of test results to my GP. Not the other way around.

Jelley93 profile image
Jelley93 in reply toSlowDragon

So I had my blood test yesterday and awaiting the results. I tried and tried to get a box of 25mcg to start all i got was we have to see the results first. So I had to extend my sick as I am not suffering at work. I told her straight my TSH was too high. To which I got told 5.2 wouldn't really concern us.

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator in reply toJelley93

That’s completely INCORRECT. See different GP

On levothyroxine TSH must ALWAYS be under 2.5 as absolute maximum

Many thyroid patients will have TSH well under one when adequately treated. Most important results are ALWAYS Ft3 followed by Ft4 and all four vitamins optimal

Levothyroxine doesn’t top up failing thyroid it replaces it which is why there’s guidelines on dose by weight

gponline.com/endocrinology-...

Replacement therapy with levothyroxine should be initiated in all patients to achieve a TSH level of 0.5-2.0pmol/L.

New NHS England Liothyronine guidelines July 2019 clearly state on page 13 that TSH should be between 0.4-1.5 when OPTIMALLY treated with just Levothyroxine

Note that it says test should be in morning BEFORE taking levothyroxine

Also to test vitamin D, folate, B12 and ferritin

sps.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploa...

Aim is to bring a TSH under 2.5

UK guidance suggests aiming for a TSH of 0.5–2.5

gp-update.co.uk/SM4/Mutable...

Dr Toft, past president of the British Thyroid Association and leading endocrinologist, states in Pulse Magazine,

"The appropriate dose of levothyroxine is that which restores euthyroidism and serum TSH to the lower part of the reference range - 0.2-0.5mU/l.

In this case, free thyroxine is likely to be in the upper part of its reference range or even slightly elevated – 18-22pmol/l.

Most patients will feel well in that circumstance.

But some need a higher dose of levothyroxine to suppress serum TSH and then the serum-free T4 concentration will be elevated at around 24-28pmol/l.

This 'exogenous subclinical hyperthyroidism' is not dangerous as long as serum T3 is unequivocally normal – that is, serum total around T3 1.7nmol/l (reference range 1.0-2.2nmol/l)."

(That’s Ft3 at 58% minimum through range)

You can obtain a copy of the articles from Thyroid UK email print it and highlight question 6 to show your doctor



please email Dionne at

tukadmin@thyroiduk.org

You may need to see thyroid specialist endocrinologist to make progress, if you can’t see a GP who’s actually read guidelines

There’s almost 2 million people in the U.K. prescribed levothyroxine, but currently testing, treatment and understanding of hypothyroidism is frequently woefully inadequate

Email Thyroid UK for list of recommend thyroid specialist endocrinologists...NHS and Private

tukadmin@thyroiduk.org

The aim of levothyroxine is to increase dose upwards in 25mcg steps until TSH is ALWAYS under 2

When adequately treated, TSH will often be well below one.

Most important results are ALWAYS Ft3 followed by Ft4.

When adequately treated Ft4 is usually in top third of range and Ft3 at least 60% through range (regardless of how low TSH is)

Extremely important to have optimal vitamin levels too as this helps reduce symptoms and improve how levothyroxine works

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator in reply toJelley93

Obviously just testing TSH or TSH and Ft4 is completely inadequate

You may need full private testing

Jelley93 profile image
Jelley93 in reply toSlowDragon

Just sent an enquiry about testing privately at a spire hospital very local to me. I put down all the things you said will need testing.

Hopefully its affordable

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator in reply toJelley93

Just order via Medichecks or Blue Horizon

Medichecks is usually the cheapest

They both offer option to include private blood draw at local to you clinic ......rather than DIY finger prick

ALWAYS Test as early as possible in morning before eating or drinking anything other than water and last dose levothyroxine 24 hours before test

Have you had NHS test results back yet?

If TSH is over two I would STRONGLY recommend you push for next 25mcg dose increase in levothyroxine first

Then get FULL thyroid and vitamin testing done 6-8 weeks after this dose increase

humanbean profile image
humanbean in reply toJelley93

You really, really don't want to try dealing directly with a private hospital to get blood tests done. The cost is likely to be astronomical.

There are quite a few companies that deal directly with the public, and they tend to be much cheaper. I remember answering a post once where someone had contacted a private hospital or doctor, asked about tests they wanted done, and the cost was close to £1000, including seeing a doctor. I looked up how much it would cost to get the tests done privately without seeing a private doctor and it was £79.

thyroiduk.org/help-and-supp...

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator in reply toJelley93

Only do private test early Monday or Tuesday morning and then post back via tracked postal service

Results are emailed to you 2-3 days later

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator

Medichecks often have offer if order on a Thursday

Usually £79 ...can be reduced to £60

Medichecks Thyroid plus antibodies and vitamins

medichecks.com/products/adv...

Other test options

thyroiduk.org/getting-a-dia...

Thriva Thyroid plus antibodies and vitamins By DIY fingerpick test

thriva.co/tests/thyroid-test

Thriva also offer just vitamin testing

Blue Horizon Thyroid Premium Gold includes antibodies, cortisol and vitamins by DIY fingerprick test

bluehorizonbloodtests.co.uk...

You could test vitamin D now

NHS easy postal kit vitamin D test £29 via

vitamindtest.org.uk

Jelley93 profile image
Jelley93 in reply toSlowDragon

Just got my old NHS tests records up from when I first started getting blood tests.in 2018 the level was 2.3 TSH

in 2019 the level was 3.1 TSH

in 2020 the level was 5.2 TSH

As you can see it was rising yet was never really flagged up

Im awaiting the results of this latest NHS blood test hopefully they come through today.

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator in reply toJelley93

Which is EXACTLY why you always need to take control

You have been under medicated since 2018

Just testing TSH is completely inadequate

Essential to test Ft4 and Ft3

If Ft4 and FT dropping at each test....your under medicated

Virtually 100% of thyroid patients will almost always need TSH under 2

A high percentage will have TSH under one when adequately treated

At least 20% will have very low TSH when adequately treated

TSH is not a reliable tool, once on levothyroxine

Always test TSH, Ft4 And Ft3 plus all four vitamins at least once year

Medichecks often cheapest

Test TSH, Ft4 and Ft3 6-8 weeks after any dose change or brand change in levothyroxine

Monitor My Health test cheapest at £26.10 if order via Thyroid U.K.

thyroiduk.org/getting-a-dia...

monitormyhealth.org.uk/

Jelley93 profile image
Jelley93 in reply toSlowDragon

Coded entry - Serum TSH level (XaELV) 8.3 miu/L [0.3 - 5]Coded entry - Serum free T4 level (XaERr) 17 pmol/L [9 - 25]

Got these this morning.

Starting 25mcg tomorrow. So 125mcg total

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator in reply toJelley93

Likely to need further 25mcg increase in 3-6 months

Blood should be retested 6-10 weeks after each dose increase

Always get same brand of levothyroxine at each prescription

Always test as early as possible in morning before eating or drinking anything apart from water and last dose levothyroxine 24 hours before test

If TSH is over 2 you are under medicated

Likely low vitamin levels as direct result

Request GP test vitamin D, folate, ferritin and B12 NOW

Or test vitamin D now via vitamind.org.uk

£29 postal NHS kit

GP should apologize for messing you up

Dose levothyroxine should have been increased immediately after last test (and really should have been increased in 2018)

Jelley93 profile image
Jelley93 in reply toSlowDragon

Started the 125mcg dosage today. The 25mcg box is wockhardt. I had a metallic taste in the mouth but soon faded. Lets hope I start to feel somewhat normal.

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator in reply toJelley93

Which brand of levothyroxine do you normally take

Best to avoid Teva

Wockhart and Mercury Pharma make 25mcg tablets

Jelley93 profile image
Jelley93 in reply toSlowDragon

Yes 100mcg is mercury pharma. 25mcg is wockhardt. Would that be okay combination

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator in reply toJelley93

Wockhart is well tolerated generally....but every person is different

Try to insist on Mercury Pharma 100mcg and 25mcg at each prescription.

Jelley93 profile image
Jelley93 in reply toSlowDragon

Hello today I took my third dose of 125mcg. Well spaced out from my breakfast. I am beginning to notice slight changes. Less dizziness however still there a bit. My current sick note expires this Thursday. I was just wondering maybe a daft question whether the increased dose would make me feel better within one week. So I could return to work.

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator in reply toJelley93

How physical is your job?

Can you perhaps discuss doing shorter hours for few weeks

usually notice improvements after 10-14 days on increased dose .....goes on improving for several weeks

If you need further increase in levothyroxine (likely) then you may start to notice return of some symptoms after 6-8 weeks as body gets ready for next dose increase

Bloods should be retested 6-10 weeks after each dose increase

Always test as early as possible in morning before eating or drinking anything other than water and last dose levothyroxine 24 hours before test

Jelley93 profile image
Jelley93

My main role is driving a van. Not very hard, however there is some physical elements as we are now dealing with pallets off PPE etc. Yesterday I went on a bike ride around 7 miles. I was okay after. I try to keep fitness even with the thyroid. It tends to help me ward of tiredness etc

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