Have Hashimoto’s; can anyone help with recent iron blood tests please?

[Noelnoel]

As well as my recent thyroid tests, the following were checked at the same time. Can anybody explain to me what they mean? Also, c reactive, is that an inflammatory marker? It says < 4 which means it’s not less than 3, 2 or 1, right? In which case mine is quite high, yes?

[SeasideSusie Remembering]

Noelnoel.

It says < 4 which means it’s not less than 3, 2 or 1, right?

Or it could be that the machine isn't calibrated to measure lower than 4. Best check with the lab to see if they can give you an accurate result.

Optimal results for an iron panel, according to rt3-adrenals.org/Iron_test_...

Serum iron: 55 to 70% of the range, higher end for men - yours is 29.49% through range so is on the low side.

Saturation: optimal is 35 to 45%, higher end for men - yours is 23% so on the low side.

Transferrin: Low in range indicates lack of capacity for additional iron, High in range indicates body's need for supplemental iron - yours is 34.62% through range so on the low side.

Ferritin: Low level virtually always indicates need for iron supplementation; High level with low serum iron/low saturation indicates inflammation or infection; High level with high serum iron and low TIBC indicates excess iron; Over range with saturation above 45% suggests hemochromatosis - yours is 29.57% through range so on the low side.

[Noelnoel in reply to SeasideSusie]

SS, contacting lab is a good suggestion, if only to ask why they don’t provide a range for that test

Thank you the other information but I don’t understand the transferrin paragraph

Low in range indicates lack of capacity for additional iron. It’s the word capacity that’s throwing me

Also: high in range indicates body’s need for supplemental iron. As mine is low, is that indication that I don’t need to supplement?

[Noelnoel in reply to SeasideSusie]

SS, contacting lab is a good suggestion, if only to ask why they don’t provide a range for that test

Thank you the other information but I don’t understand the transferrin paragraph

Low in range indicates lack of capacity for additional iron. It’s the word capacity that’s throwing me

Also: high in range indicates body’s need for supplemental iron. As mine is low, is that indication that I don’t need to supplement?

[Noelnoel in reply to SeasideSusie]

just checked again and a range is provided

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to Noelnoel]

Noelnoel

I have seen 2 ranges for CRP, <5 and <10. With CRP being an inflammation marker, the lower the level the better, so to know how much lower then 4 your level is would be helpful for you.

capacity = the ability to hold something or the maximum amount that can be held.

Lack of capacity - no room for any more.

Low in range = no capacity for any more iron.

However, your transferrin seems to be a little out of sync with your other results.

Your serum iron and saturation are on the lowish side, as is your Ferritin, and could be a bit better but your transferrin is saying that you don't have the capacity for additional iron. This is where iron becomes complicated.

[Noelnoel in reply to SeasideSusie]

Thank you SS

Yes, so very complicated and I hadn't realised until I started to try to understand what ferritin was and subsequently looking for a ferritin supplement to raise my low levels because my understanding was, that it's dangerous to try to raise iron levels without first knowing what they are, in case they're already high in the range. Because at the time I didn't know my iron levels, I opted for this brand

I posted about the brand on here before, asking for help because after calling the supplier to ascertain whether it was iron or ferritin, I was none the wiser. So, is it iron or is it ferritin? Below is exactly how it's printed on the tub. I would've included a photo if it was possible to do so but I could start another post with a photo in for another time because it's getting late

Carsiovascular Reasearch Ltd (brand)

FERRITIN

Bioavailable Iron

5mgs

On the back it says:

Iron from bovine spleen and as iron aspartate

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to Noelnoel]

Noelnoel

I have no idea if it's iron or Ferritin.

Why not try raising Ferritin by eating liver?

[Noelnoel in reply to SeasideSusie]

I am and enjoying it too but as well as raising ferritin won’t it also raise iron?

I’ve been eating it weekly as you suggest often but I imagine it’s a slow process

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to Noelnoel]

Yes it is a slow process. It took me from May to September to raise mine from about 57 to about 76 and I am still working on trying to get it nearer 100. I don't seem to have raised my serum iron or saturation, just my ferritin but can't guarantee that will be the same for everyone.

[Noelnoel in reply to SeasideSusie]

Thank you SS, will continue with liver but should I stop the iron/ferritin (or whatever it is)? Does “lack of capacity” mean it’s dangerous to supplement? I appreciate that given it’s a tricky and complex area, these are questions that perhaps you can’t answer. Is there some recommended simple reading material?

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to Noelnoel]

Noelnoel

Does “lack of capacity” mean it’s dangerous to supplement?

I think possibly the more important levels to look at are serum iron and saturation %, if these go too high then that isn't good, too much iron is as bad as too little. Both of those are lowish in range - not quite 30% through range - so theoretically you could continue with your supplement but I would repeat your test in 2 months to see how things are.

Your levels aren't dire and I doubt whether any doctor would even comment on them, but they're not optimal according to the link to rT3 adrenals.

I don't know of any simple reading material regarding iron. If you are worried about your transferrin level then look for some credible websites but make sure you look for transferrin and not transferrin saturation.

This is what the NHS says about transferrin:

nhs.uk/conditions/tibc-test/

who then link to LabTestsOnline:

labtestsonline.org.uk/tests...

I wonder if humanbean has anything to add, she has more understanding of iron than me. She may be around later on today.

[Noelnoel in reply to SeasideSusie]

Ok, thank you SS, that’s very helpful and reassuring. Do you have any experience with liver capsules? I have one by the makers of metavive, it’s called hepavive. I started it then stopped after about a week thinking that it would be too much with the iron supplement and weekly liver. Perhaps I’ll start another thread

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to Noelnoel]

Noelnoel

I did try beef liver capsules for a while (possibly didn't give it a long enough trial) and didn't find a lot of difference. Also, it was way, way more expensive than buying lamb's liver and having a weekly meal.

I remember reading a post some time ago where one member cooked some liver, cut into small, tablet sized pieces and froze them. Then she popped a few of her "liver tablets" daily as her way of using liver to raise ferritin.

Someone else buys a tub of chicken livers (from Asda I think), cooks them, whizzes them, adds mayonnaise and takes a spoonful every day.

[Noelnoel in reply to SeasideSusie]

Brilliant ideas! The mayo one is probably delicious made with a splash of Worcester sauce and spread on toast. That’s why I love this forum so much; so many good ideas and advice. Thank you!

[Noelnoel in reply to SeasideSusie]

I found this article interesting and understood a tiny bit of it but if you haven’t already read this or hundreds of articles like it, someone like you or others with a more technical brain, might find it useful

rcpa.edu.au/getattachment/d...

[helvella Administrator]

C Reactive Protein is described here:

leedsth.nhs.uk/a-z-of-servi...

< 4 simply means "less than four". It could be anywhere between zero and 3.99999. As SeasideSusie said, their equipment might simply not be validated and calibrated to measure values lower than 4 accurately. If it is that low, it probably doesn't make any difference whatsoever where it lies.

I couldn't see your result.

[Noelnoel in reply to helvella]

Thank you hellvella. Did you mean you couldn’t see my c reactive level or the entire results? CRP <4 ( 0.0 - 6.0)

[helvella Administrator in reply to Noelnoel]

I meant I couldn't see it at all in the image on this post!

That is saying that any value in the range 0.0 to 6.0 is OK - effectively negative. But if above 6.0 would be positive. Your value is under 4.0 hence definitely negative.

[Noelnoel in reply to helvella]

Just in case you're interested to see them then:

Ferritin 93.1 ug/L (10.0 - 291.0)

Serum iron 15.2 umol/L (10.0 - 30.4) 0 - 50.0)

CRP <4 (0.0 - 6.0)

As SeasideSusie points out, because it's an inflammatory marker, probably the lower in the range, the better

[humanbean]

Ferritin (iron stores) 93.1 ug/L (10 - 291) 29.57% of the way through the range

Iron 15.2 umol/L (10 - 30.4) 25.49% of the way through the range

Transferrin 2.95 g/L (2.5 - 3.8) 34.62% of the way through the range

Percentage iron saturation 23% (16 - 50)

I'm probably going to repeat everything that SeasideSusie said, but I'll carry on anyway.

Optimal levels for iron-related results are taken from this link :

rt3-adrenals.org/Iron_test_...

Ferritin --- Optimal for most people is mid-range or a little bit over i.e approx 150 - 200, so yours is much too low. Always use the range that came with a specific test result to determine what optimal is.

Iron --- Optimal is 55% - 70% of the way through the range i.e. approx 21 - 25. Women should aim for the lower half of that optimal range, men for the upper half. So, optimal for men would be 23 - 25, optimal for women would be 21 - 23.

Transferrin --- Yours is in the lower half of the range, suggesting that your body is not capable of absorbing more iron or suggests that you don't need more iron. This is giving a contradictory conclusion to your ferritin and iron.

%age iron saturation --- Optimal is 35% - 45%, lower half of that for women (35% - 40%), upper half for men (40% - 45%). Yours is too low. Your blood is not highly saturated with iron, suggesting that your blood could soak up some more iron. This result gives an opposite conclusion to your level of transferrin but fits in with the results of your iron and ferritin.

Having contradictory results in an iron panel is not terribly unusual.

Your results show a pattern that I had for several years. My TIBC (a test result serving much the same purpose as transferrin) was actually below range in multiple tests, despite my ferritin and iron being much too low. All the females on the maternal side of my family have had life-long problems with being low in iron or anaemic. Even a couple of male cousins on the maternal side have been anaemic too. In my opinion we have a genetic flaw of some kind which I am never likely to be able to prove.

Having too little iron was having a dreadful effect on my health so I disregarded the oddball result and went by the others instead. It seems to have worked for me, although it has taken years - my iron-related results are not perfect but they are a lot better than they ever were a few years ago. Even the oddball results have improved.

One thing to be aware of is that transferrin is produced by the liver. It might be worth your while to check any liver function test results you have access to to see if there are any red flags.

...

In your shoes I would want to supplement iron to optimise my ferritin and/or my iron. Raising iron and ferritin can take a long time. However your results aren't catastrophic so I would expect yours to get up to optimal within a few months - but I'm only guessing.

I wrote about the supplements that are easily sourced in the UK in this reply to another member :

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

But be aware of the potential for serious problems :

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

It is essential to do full iron testing regularly while supplementing so that you don't end up with iron/ferritin levels which are too high. If your contradictory results become even more contradictory then you might have to abandon hopes of improving your iron-related results with supplements.

[I supplemented with ferrous fumarate 210mg to raise my own iron and ferritin levels. I got my ferritin to mid-range long before my serum iron got close to being optimal. I accepted my serum iron wasn't good and just did what I could to maintain my ferritin at mid-range. I still take a maintenance dose of ferrous fumarate 210mg even now. I always try to avoid either my iron, or my ferritin, and my saturation from going over optimal.]

Please note that I have no medical training at all.

[Noelnoel in reply to humanbean]

Yes, SeasideSusie has been very helpful too. I feel so grateful to have found this forum and you say you have no medical training but you seem to have grasped the intricacies and complexities. There are so many twists and turns in it that it feels just out of reach to my level of intellect, so hurrah for people like you and SS

Interesting that you mention transferrin and liver. For years I’ve had raised liver enzymes and sometimes they’re quite high. I’d had three scans which show a healthy liver but something is definitely badly wrong because every single morning I wake up with tenderness in the region of my liver. As soon as I’m up it disappears though

It’s only recently that I’ve discovered there’s a connection between liver and thyroid disease but neither my GP or endo has ever mentioned it and I’m worried

At first I put it down to having drunk too much red wine over a long time. I’ve had sleeping struggles for 22 years (now resolving) and for years I’d drink copious amounts of red wine to get me to sleep. I knew I risked damaging myself but the hours on end awake every single night we’re driving me crazy and I just didn’t want sedatives. Eventually I stopped the wine and managed as best I could. Anyway, long story short, after trying many alternative ways I started taking an iron/ferritin supplement a couple of months ago and within days I was sleeping better and I can really only put it down to that because believe me, I tried all sorts

Can I ask in what ways iron deficiency affected your health and how are you now? You say your levels aren’t perfect and you live with it, do you notice any ill-effects? Are you taking SS’s advice and eating liver too?

Thank you for all the info and the links too. I’ll be reading them later with interest