Low TSH and carnivore diet

[Nico101]

Hi guys,

Been carrying out an experiment and would like some advice on the results.

So, I managed to find a medication level I was happy with and made me feel pretty good, compared to how I felt before, anyway. More energy and my fibro eased a bit - although I still had plenty of other issues: terrible, dry skin, dry eyes and ears, a trapped vagus nerve, joint pain, lower back pain and sciatica, and so on. I'd been keto for many months, so that helped - although I then discovered I had oxalate overload that was causing me many problems.

I was desperate for a diet that might help with my Hashi's and read about the carnivore diet. I first of all had a few weeks on low oxalate foods, but there was still a period of extreme oxalate dumping that made me feel terrible once I started the carnivore diet, so I had to eat a bit of dark chocolate every day to reduce the symptoms.

As I was in a state of extreme transition, I didn't bother with a thyroid test for about 6 months - and besides, I'd stabilised on a split dose of 1 1/4 grain of NDT and 50mcg of levo.

I've just had my thyroid results back and my TSH is lowered. Medichecks have suggested I lower my NDT dose. This is the result I was hoping for, but I appreciate it's still way too early to tell if this is down to the diet. I think the next test in 3 months will be more definitive. But for now, based on these results, do you think it best to just reduce the NDT by 1/4 of a grain? Or should I reduce by 1/2? Any suggestions would be appreciated.

I was also very alarmed to read the WPThyroid are recalling their NDTs due to the strength being lower than it should. Has anyone else heard this?

Thanks for the advice.

[Nico101]

Actually, I should also have mentioned that my skin is now fantastic, my hair (that has grown since going carnivore 5 months ago) is smooth and shiny, fibro has gone, bad back has gone, and the trapped nerve is about 90% better. The pain from a broken wrist this time last year has also gone, and I've got all the strength and mobility back in that hand. I'll be sticking with this diet, I think, based on these results.

[SeasideSusie Remembering]

Nico101

Tip - don't bother with doctor comments when having private tests - tick the box that says you don't want comments (or don't tick the box that says you want comments, whichever it is). There comments generally are baloney. They are slaves to the TSH with no regard to the actual thyroid hormones - FT4 and FT3 - just like most NHS doctors.

There is absolutely nothing in your results that say you need to reduce your dose.

For someone on NDT your FT3 is rather low, one would expect to see a low or suppressed TSH, lowish FT4 and upper range FT3 when optimally dosed. I wouldn't reduce the dose of NDT at all if those were my results, I'd probably increase it to improve my FT3 level. It's low T3 that causes symptoms and your is only 31.08% through it's range.

How are your vitamin levels?

[Nico101 in reply to SeasideSusie]

Ok. I'll try going up 1/4 of a grain then. This is the best I've felt and looked in 8 years, but I'll try upping the NDT a little to see if I can gain more improvements.

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to Nico101]

Nico101

And how are your vitamin levels? Very important that these are optimal for us Hypos. We need optimal levels of Vit D, B12, Folate and Ferritin.

[Nico101 in reply to SeasideSusie]

I haven't had them checked for a while, as all this covid nonsense has made these sorts of things very difficult. My D3 is likely to be over the NHS top level, which doesn't bother me at all. I expect I feel so good because my B vitamins and ferritin would have gone up quite dramatically on meat, eggs, and animal fats.

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to Nico101]

I do fingerprick tests for mine, that hasn't been affected. I do it once a year with Blue Horizon, posted last week and awaiting results.

[Nico101 in reply to SeasideSusie]

I'll have a look on Blue Horizon, then. Medichecks vitamin tests are very limited - which is why I haven't done a private one.

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to Nico101]

Nico101

Medichecks does this nutrition check which is quite comprehensive and can be done by fingerprick

Ferritin

Vit D

Active B12

Folate

Magnesium

CRP

Full cholesterol check

medichecks.com/products/nut...

Code THYROIDUK gives 10% discount

If you want full thyroid and nutrients then Blue HorizonThyroid Premium Gold can be done by fingerprick (this is the one I do once a year) and

includes

TSH

FT4

FT3

Thyroid antibodies

Vit D

B12 (Total)

Folate

Ferritin

CRP

Magnesium

Cortisol

bluehorizonbloodtests.co.uk...

Generous discount code here: thyroiduk.org/getting-a-dia...

[Nico101 in reply to SeasideSusie]

Thank you. I'll save these and look into them.

[Catseyes235 in reply to SeasideSusie]

I really don’t agree on not having Doctors / medichecks comments. They are medically trained to interpret the results. They even suggested I’d benefit from the addition of T3.

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to Catseyes235]

Catseyes235

They are medically trained to interpret the results

On the whole, they are TSH obsessed the same as most GPS, without any regard to FT4 and FT3 levels.

I had results back from a private test on Friday with suppressed TSH (which mine always is), FT4 at 18.6 (12-22) and FT3 at 4.8 (3.1-6.8) and the comments said I had subclinical hyperthyroidism. Utter tosh when I've been diagnosed and treated for hypothyroidism for 45 years and my FT4 and FT3 are at those levels. The comments were purely based on the TSH.

You get the odd gem of a doctor giving comments but it's very rare.

[Catseyes235 in reply to SeasideSusie]

I don’t think that’s a reason to tell other people not to get the advice / interpretation of Medichecks.. what they do with the advice is up to them!

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to Catseyes235]

Catseyes235

So do you agree with the comments that the OP received, that she should reduce her dose based on those results?

[Catseyes235 in reply to SeasideSusie]

Of course not but we didn’t see full reply. Medichecks said that the results would suggest I should reduce thyroxine but went on to say that I would probably benefit from additional T3. They are in a strange position as obviously cannot say you must have or need T3 but say that you can show the letter to your GP. I don’t know if this would strengthen my case as lockdown came along and I didn’t decrease my T4 by the amount doctor wanted (not my regular GP who goes by how the patient feels.)

[Nico101 in reply to SeasideSusie]

Normally, I forward these results to my NHS GP for my records. Given my GP (the one who has Hashi's) has left the practice, I'm wondering if I should hold these results back. I buy my own NDT BUT, I rely on the NHS for levo. It's been bad enough just trying to get Wockhardt off them. I'm thinking it may be a good idea not to rock the boat if they are going to think the same way as Medichecks?

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to Nico101]

Nico101

Anybody here can only relay their own experience.

My GP is TSH obsessed, refuses to discuss FT4 and FT3, we have the same old discussion every time about "Your TSH is suppressed, you are overmedicated" and she refuses to say anything else when I point out that my FT4 and FT3 are well within range. It doesn't matter if I have an appointment to discuss something else totally unconnected, she brings up my TSH and so begins the same old discussion. She has no idea that I take T3 nor that I do private blood tests regularly to monitor myself - she is such a nasty piece of work (not only thyroid-wise) that she'd probably stop my prescription for Levo if she did know.

Some members show their private tests to their GPs and their GPs are happy to accept them but some ridicule them and say they wont accept them because - oh several reasons like fingerprick tests are no good, private labs don't have the same ranges, private labs aren't accredited, and just because they're not NHS results.

Some members have told their GPs that they are self medicating, some are even told by their endos to self medicate, and their doctors are more than happy to monitor them. Some of us couldn't possibly do that because of repercussions.

So only you can know what you should now do in your circumstances.

[Nico101 in reply to SeasideSusie]

Maybe I'll keep the result to myself, then. I'm completely fed up with the NHS these days, anyway. I try and avoid any interaction with them at all costs. It's certainly better for my health that way.

[MrsRaven in reply to Catseyes235]

Medically trained? My doctor openly admitted that he had no idea how to interpret results and I’d have to do it myself. I’ve been teaching him!

[Catseyes235 in reply to MrsRaven]

I’m talking about the Medichecks doctors who privately analyse blood samples. GPs aren’t gods (though some behave like they are) and can’t possibly know everything about every possible disease but should by now know about thyroid and diabetes as they are so common. At least your doctor had the good grace to admit ignorance!

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to Catseyes235]

The Medichecks doctors are no different to GPs, their training is the same. You may get the odd one who knows how to interpret full thyroid test results but most only go by TSH.

[Catseyes235 in reply to SeasideSusie]

They don’t just test for TSH which is available on the NHS . They test for reverse T3 , T3 etc. What are your qualifications as obviously you know better??!

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to Catseyes235]

Catseyes235

They don’t just test for TSH which is available on the NHS

Of course they don't just test for TSH, that's obvious from the picture in the opening post. What I said was that they base their comments mainly on the result of the TSH test and don't take into consideration the FT4 and FT3 results.

Reverse T3 is a red herring, not worth testing because there are many, many causes of rT3 and only one is to do with thyroid and that is if there is an excess of unconverted T4.

[MrsRaven in reply to Catseyes235]

They’re no different. I made the mistake of asking for a doctors interpretation of my cortisol result. It varied from possible Addisons in the morning to possible Cushings at night even though neither were out of range though not ideal

[Catseyes235 in reply to MrsRaven]

I was talking about the Medichecks doctors.

[MrsRaven in reply to Catseyes235]

So was i

[Nico101 in reply to MrsRaven]

I'm with you on that one. And my previous GP had Hashi's!

[MrsRaven in reply to Nico101]

😧

[NWA6]

Oh god, those results are’t very good 😬 I’d not be lowering anything. I’d be looking to raise!

FT3 30% and FT4 42%

I’m glad you’ve had some relief in symptoms but there’s plenty of room for improvement. To hell with TSH, ignore it 🤗

[Lalatoot]

If you feel well stay at the dose you are on. If you still have symptoms increase your dose as your ft4 and Ft3 are still low in range.

[Liyaelize]

The diet is very high histamine and could be triggers to back pain and sciatica. In my case it causes that. Why I don't like the Keto or carnivore diet. Doing it short term is okay but later will backfire on you. There's movement techniques that works well for back , neck and pain on YouTube called Feldenkrais, McKenzie and Hannah Somatic yoga that is great to use. I do vagus nerve stimulation for my gut and keep me very regular and no issues with constipation.

[Nico101 in reply to Liyaelize]

Hi. My back and neck pain and sciatica of 10 years has gone on the diet. I am aware of the histamine issues, and I did get hayfever this year, but the benefits far outweigh the negatives.

[Arlie123]

I've just had my thyroid results back and my TSH is lowered. Medichecks have suggested I lower my NDT dose. This is the result I was hoping for, but I appreciate it's still way too early to tell if this is down to the diet.

Hiya 👋 Low TSH isn't what you should be aiming for. What you should be aiming for is a higher FT4 and FT3 (or whatever makes you well). I'm not sure exactly what the carnivore diet is but if it is only meat you are quite likely be missing out on really important nutrients that will support your thyroid issues (fibre is also really important for good health!). Low vitamins can decrease TSH I believe, so it could also be that affecting your TSH.

If you're going to alter your diet in anyway, it's worth trying gluten free and possibly dairy free to see if these help alleviate your symptoms.

[Nico101 in reply to Arlie123]

Thanks, but I've done all the other diets with limited results. I was keto for a year and that helped with blood sugar imbalance and some fibro issues, but carnivore has pretty much repaired some very longterm damage to my joints, muscles and bones. The only vitamin I can't get from meat (unless I eat a lot of beef liver - which I don't) is vitamin C, so I supplement with that.

[Arlie123 in reply to Nico101]

Fair enough - but you can’t get fibre from meat!

verywellhealth.com/high-fib...

[Nico101 in reply to Arlie123]

Trust me, you don't need fibre. It's yet another food-related myth. I've been carnivore now for about 5 months and have no trouble at all going to the loo.

[Arlie123 in reply to Nico101]

There’s quite a bit more to fibre than helping you poop! I’d really recommend reading up on it.

[Nico101 in reply to Arlie123]

I have. Extensively.

[Marymary7]

B12 deficiency often goes with thyroid disorders. I wonder if eating all that meat increases your b12 and also your iron would of gone up I would think.

[Nico101 in reply to Marymary7]

Yes, I agree. I stopped taking my B vit supplements a few weeks into carnivore. I'd like to get my ferritin levels checked now (they were on the low side) but the GPs are making it very difficult.

[salmanc1]

I agree. And also having higher levels of protein which repairs muscles. I do think there needs to be a balance in our diets though.

[MrsRaven]

With no fibre in my diet I get constipated. It causes stomach pain and makes my piles worse

[Nico101 in reply to MrsRaven]

I'm on a very specific type of diet with a very high fat content. Trust me - lack of fibre is NOT an issue. If anything, I had the runs for a few weeks when I first started it - although I strangely felt better than I have done for years at the same time. It may have been a major detoxing episode after drastically reducing my toxin load by just eating meat.

[MrsRaven in reply to Nico101]

I’ve used the high fat diet which will make my stools a bit loose, but I have a bit of a problem if I eat too much fat. I had an oesophageal ulcer and a lot of fat gives me gastritis which causes heartburn and soreness where the ulcer was. Then I end up having to take Omeprazole or ranitidine which isn’t ideal

[Angelic69]

Welldone you for having your dose reduced.

"terrible, dry skin, dry eyes and ears, a trapped vagus nerve, joint pain, lower back pain and sciatica,"

Have you been diagnosed with anything for your joint and back pains. How often are you in pain?

Serrapeptase is very good for joint and back pain, however it does have a slight blood thinning effect which said be discussed with a GP if you already take any kind of blood thinner.

I noticed my skin improved by eating omega seed mix, it also lowered my bad cho;estrol.

Avocado is a good fat along with coconut which may help with dryness.

[Nico101 in reply to Angelic69]

No, I said all those things have gone since I went carnivore. The neck pain was the last to go - but that was extremely bad and made the room spin if i looked to my left or lay down. And according to others on here, I'll have to up my dose of NDTs - which I'm disappointed by, but what can you do?

[Angelic69 in reply to Nico101]

Well how do you feel? If you are free from symptoms try to reduce a little every other day? If you still feel well then all is well. If your symptoms come back reducing was a mistake. I think the key is to find that happy place for you? some like 0.0 TSH, some like it a bit higher, me for instance. You are the one who has to live with symptoms.

[Hidden]

Hi Nico

How are you doing now?

I am on Day 2 of a Low Oxalate diet to see if it might help with muscle aches and I have to say that the aches are WORSE today than before the diet change.

Googling this unexpected result, I came across Oxalate Dumping, that I had never heard about before.

And now I read that you too have had problems with low oxalate diet.

Some suggest that it would be better to 'slowly' reduce the Oxalates rather than go straight to Low Oxalate, as I have.

Have you any thoughts on this?

Thanks

Alps

[collageartist52]

hi nicole, i found your post when i searched "oxalate dumping". How has your carnivore diet gone for you? Are you still on it? And how long did you dump? I am coming up to year 3 and dumping more than ever...but i did not go full carnivore until about 5 months ago..i started low-ox 3 years ago...interested in your journey

[Gustie88]

Low carb (carnivore) has been verified to raise adrenal hormones like cortisol. That’s why you feel much better and symptoms of other maladies disappear. This is well know and there’s nothing surprising or unusual about it.