Does anyone with autoimmune on here have any experience with the Carnivore Diet?
I came across a cardio surgeon and a neuro surgeon on different podcasts both endorsing a carnivore diet. They peaked my interest when stating that this way of eating rids the body of autoimmune conditions.
Within a few days a friend of mine while taking a walk along their local river spoke to a man getting his canoe out of the river. He was lean and obviously very fit as he explained how far he had come down the river and did so most days. My friend was obviously impressed and they started to chat. He explained that he had not always been so fit. 12months before he had been very over weight, had diabetes 2 and other health conditions. That now he was healthy, no diabetes , no autoimmune condition anymore, had lost weight and was fit and strong
I was taken by this iformation, more from the chance encounter of my friend because that was someone she had met in person
So that is why I am asking because I have an autoimmune condition. So has my daughter in law with Hashimotos
Many thanks for reading
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LynneG
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Surely, logically, taking T3 does not completely eliminate the need to convert. We still need to convert T3 to T2 and T2 to T1. So surely we need carbs for that, don't you think? Carbs and calories? And all the other nutrients we talk about as necessary for conversion of T4 to T3? It's something I've often wondered but the subject has never come up before.
Yes, you're probably right. I hadn't given a thought to T3 to T2 etc. My own efforts to eat a very low carb/carnivore diet didn't suit me at all but I know some people on this forum have mentioned it makes them feel great.
Like so many other things mentioned on here, people just have to try it and see what happens.
What I realized is a carnivore diet has to be high in fat or it's just a 'rabbit starvation' diet. It needs to be done correctly but saying that, people do get chronic diarrhoea from it. And typical of 'cult diets' people are then encouraged to keep on going because supposedly it will stop. Some people have reported having diarrhoea for a year! Well, no thanks.
Some of us end up on the toilet multiple times from eating too many vegetables!
There has to be a balance somewhere.
But as to needing carbs to convert thyroid hormones, I think that means glucose and the body can make it's own with the liver. I don't think people who are on a carnivore diet also have pathologically low glucose levels.
Because GLP-1 is not produced when a person is making their own glucose from gluconeogenesis, insulin is not stimulated to be produced to the same extent as if we eat carbohydrates. So blood glucose can actually be higher than when someone is eating a low carb diet. But there shouldn't be ups and downs the way it is if someone is snacking on easily digested carbs.
Hi. All autoimmune conditions are said to benefit from a gluten free and dairy free diet. Both high inflammatory foods. I am not sure where thyroid conversions come into this picture though.In the US autoimmune conditions are on the rise so clean foods, GF. DF and limiting highly processed food is growing in popularity. And there is a link between gluten and thyroid problems. Wish I could advise you more.
I find that without carbs I have a substantially less energy and that the most effective ones for me are from potatoes. Pasta and rice just do not seem to give me what I need. However, I am still working my way up to optimum with T3 so maybe that will change. We are all different so it might work for you. It's funny that we are starting to see a turn around from vegetable oils to animal fats again and I use beef dripping when cooking red meats which I enjoy. I, also, would like to see some new independent studies on the effects of animal fats versus vegetable oils on the cardiovascular system before I go in too deeply as until quite recently animal fats were the bete noire of cardiologists and for many they still are.
Whatever you decide, I hope it works out. Best wishes.
"I, also, would like to see some new independent studies on the effects of animal fats versus vegetable oils"
The people eating plant based diets are not recommending vegetable oils. Instead, they are recommending whole foods..... raw nuts and seeds. Examples: walnuts, pecans, flaxseed, etc.
This man getting his canoe out of the river. "12months before he had been very over weight, had diabetes 2 and other health conditions. That now he was healthy, no diabetes , no autoimmune condition anymore, had lost weight and was fit and strong"
Are you implying that this man is on a carnivore diet?
Some people on the carnivore diet eat nothing but meat. Was that the diet this man is on?
I don't like the fact that carnivores, such as lions and tigers, look nothing like humans, especially their teeth. And the animals that have DNA closest to humans, such as bonobo monkeys and chimpanzees, whose DNA is about 99% the same as humans, are not carnivores.
Yes sorry, I did not make it clear. The man my friend met was on a carnivore diet and had cured his health conditions
I asked my friend lots of questions but she had obv not asked him. Except that his wife too had started the carnivore diet and was doing very well. One of the questions I asked my friend (which she hadn't asked him ) was, did he eat any fruit.
I have asked her jokingly to hang about the river so she may bump into him again
I've had spells on a carnivore diet before.. it's hard to maintain as you really want to eat other tykre of food. However, I did feel good on it. Gastric symptoms vanished, skin cleared up , and had enough energy after the initial week or two.
My own experience has been about Balance. I’ve read a lot about several diets and what works for me is balance…. Meaning eating grass fed meats, wild caught fish, vegetables (carbs from organic potatoes, yucca, and other root vegetables) organic fruits and healthy fats (cooking with organic butter, ghee, organic extra virgin olive oil, lard, beef tallow and duck fat) Unfortunately, we’ve been lead the wrong way with the push of unhealthy processed foods, vegetable and seed oils, and too much sugar that have lead to chronic inflammation and disease. You might also consider staying away from excess lectins in food, as they irritate our gastrointestinal system. I have also recently stayed away from gluten (still have some dairy but in moderation). You may try to make your own bread from Einkorn wheat flour (ancient wheat) which is very tolerable. This style of eating has worked for me. I also do light exercise everyday (10-15 minutes a day of weights) and walking, I find that my mood and overall health is better, and my weight is stable.
I agree with you Happy7, balance is best. For me, anyway. If I eat few carbs and too much protein my bowel doesn't work. If I eat too much carbohydrate (which I crave) and not enough protein I end up not sleeping. If I eat no red meat I end up anaemic. Additives really mess me up. Even in meds and vaccinations.
So, good clean (preferably organic if I can afford it) food with a broad range of fruit and veg and well sourced protein sees me stronger, fitter and sleeping better. Plus a bit of daily exercise around 9am (though again, not too much or I get the afternoon slump). That daily brisk walk seems vital to my T4/T3 conversion. Without it I don't seem to process the T4 and end up feeling toxic and sluggish. So much so that I am considering getting a cross trainer for days when the weather is too rubbish to be out like today - though I did try and again, felt better for it. That's how vital this whole balance thing is to me. Everyone is different though and has to find their own body's balance on these meds/with this disease. It's hard work!
Hi! Really appreciate this discussion. I have been following a moderate-fat ketovore diet (no gluten, fermented dairy, no legumes, animal-protein-based) for approx. 2 years. This was after a prediabetes diagnosis while having Hashimotos. I immediately researched carnivore/keto/paleo regimes and podcasters (eg Drs Chaffee/Cywes/Mason/Unwin/Bickman/Berry/Jamnadas/Nadir Ali etc. ). The very low carb regime (seemingly) tanked my FT3 numbers, so I eat moderate low-starchy carbs now (mainly salads, nuts, avos). Still feel it is a juggling act and have regular checkups with GP & Endo to monitor.
Hi! Yes, I did. I overhauled my diet completely especially cutting down on bread/grains/refined sugar products etc. And am now mainly cooking meals from scratch. The prediabetes was diagnosed by HbA1C ( but also supported by insulin and pancreatic function tests) and ranged from 5.9-6.0 over a 6-month period. This value came down and is hovering around 5.5-5.7. I use a continuous glucose monitor which helps me to see which foods/activities are affecting my blood glucose.
as with comments above, I think eating clean food is the important factor. Farming has changed enormously over the last few decades. I listened to Stephanie Seneff, an expert of glyphosate. ( think roundup) For example, glyphosate is used quite a lot to defoliate plants - like grains- and helps them to ripen equally. Clearly helps the farmer to harvest efficiently. BUT this chemical chelates metals from the soil, and gets into us. It doesn’t disappear after a week or 2. It’s around for decades. It then chelates metals in us- think cobalt ( B12) iron for healthy RBC etc. I haven’t read all of her book yet, but you get the idea. Many foods are less nutritious than decades ago and some foods just strip you of essential minerals , vits .
There are certain things found in carnivore diets not found in vegetarian diets. However there are many stories of both diets helping hugely- so it’s probably eating clean “organic” food, and stop eating processed foods with all the hidden extras of sugar, cheap seed oils .
Milk in supermarkets is pasteurised and homogenised. This permanently changes the shape of the milk proteins. ( That’s why the cream doesn’t rise to the top like when I was a kid) I have read it is this altered protein shape that is not recognised by our bodies and issue that is the likely cause of milk intolerances.
Also what meds are being put into the animals. Whatever they are given you’ll end up eating. Again organic is better because there are tighter controls on what the animals are given.
Just went to watch a film called “ 6 inches of soil” at our local farm. Mostly other farmers there. A lot more seem to be getting on board with “ regenerative farming. The crop is only as good as the soil. Using chemical fertilisers is not helping the soil to flourish. You need plants with deep roots to get to the minerals deep down and bring them to the surface. The importance of leaving fields fallow etc just like I learned in school a very long time ago 😉
It’s a complex problem with no single solution. But cheap, processed food is neither healthy or nutritious and if anything depletes your body of any nutrients is does have. Eg, In Catherine Shanahans book Deep Nutrition she wrote that it take 54 molecules of magnesium for our body to process 1 molecule of sugar. So if you are eating a sugary, high carb diet, are you getting enough magnesium as well to process it without stripping your own magnesium levels? You need magnesium for at least 300 known processes in your body .
Excellent, thank you , I agree with you entirely. I cant believe how many petitions I have signed re glyphosate. I will only eat organic and if they dont have organic , I do without . Similarly grass and grain fed and outdoor reared. I don't eat any grains now. started gf 12 years ago. but my inflammation levels have doubled and I need to take my diet one step further. Maybe cutting out all lectins and the only nightshades I eat potatoes and tomatoes. Your reply is very positive especially about the farmers in your community - thank you
I recently did a fermented sour dough course. Before that I had been avoiding bread anyway, but sometimes you just fancy it - like for cheese on toast. The couple who ran it used only organic, stone ground, wholemeal flour. The starter is fermented and when ready is added to the mix of flour/salt /distilled water and left to ferment some more( can't use tap water as the chemicals kill off the good bacteria - now there's a thought!!! Whats tap water doing to your microbiome?) The fermenting process gets rid of the sugars/carbs, so the bread you eat is healthy, full of goodness and naturally has its compliment of vitamins and minerals. (Regular flour has to have B vits added to it, organic wholegrain doesn't, cos it hasn't been stripped in the first place. Super interesting.)
I don't have issues with gluten etc but according to the course leaders, people with gut issues can eat this safely and it doesn't spike blood sugars for diabetics either. Win/win.
Thanks, my husband eats sour dough but commercial brands. I have to be gluten free, have the HLA DQ 8 gene for Gluten Sensitivity which does not sound as bad as Coeliac but far worse because the gluten can be found to be attacking any organ not necessarily the intestines. So because I have autoimmune, I decided to become gluten free. A consultant wanted me to have an endoscopy to see if could find any damage to my intestines but I refused as didn't see the point as had been gf for 12 months already and wasn't goiing back so he took a blood test and recorded that I had the HLA DQ8 gene, this was 12 years ago and I dont think this gene was recognized then as having any bearing on gluten in most circles
My mum had coeliac and nearly died of malnutrition until they found the cause. She had been put in an infectious diseases isolation hospital as they were that flumoxed. She had had 3 previous endoscopies and biopsies looking for gluten damage and always negative so had ruled out. Having been on a gf diet for 24 years the hospital sent for her out of the blue and did another endoscopy and told her no damage and she could eat gluten again . I screamed no, obviously there would be no damage , she had been gf for 24 years! But my parents were true believers in the white coat with a stethoscope so she resumed eating gluten.
She started having headaches not digestive symptoms until much later. She was given an MRI of the brain . She basically had a hole , damage to her frontal lobe which governed autonomic responses . Responses that you dont have to think about like putting one foot infront of the other to enable you to walk when you stand and not immediately fall over. Thats gluten damage for you. It seemed to me that the NHS were experimenting on my mum to see what would happen if resumed a diet inc gluten. She died without any quality of life in her last years and eventually from pancreatic cancer also linked with gluten
A friend of mine was also found recently to have similar damage and a hole in her brain when she was referred to a neurologist for balance problems. Luckily he was a gluten expert. So she has been put on a very strict gf diet and is apparently healing
So there is no way I will eat grains but I make at the moment almond flour bread cakes but as nuts contain toxins that could trigger autoimmune I can see why these need to be removed from a carnivore diet if I wish to try it x
I started a carnivore diet back in February, it’s not strict but I have lost 15 kilos, stopped taking prescribed Omeprazole for heartburn and take less Levothyroxine. I was on 75mcg of Levo daily, I now take 50mcg for 2 days and 75mcg for 1 day and repeat. This way of eating has worked for me, I have more energy and look and feel better.
Having said that it may not work for everyone, as we are all different and our bodies work in different ways. I would suggest doing plenty of research before embarking on a carnivore diet. Spending time researching helped me to get my head around it and particularly anything I needed to be aware of. I decided to go down this route and try and sort myself out as I was getting nowhere with Allopathic medicine, which seems to be a common theme here.
It did take me time to completely ditch the vegetables, because of what is called oxalate dumping and it was so ingrained in me that you needed veg! Now when I have any veg it upsets my stomach. I do have a tiny bit of fruit and have now added the odd slice of sourdough bread. I eat mainly fat, meat, eggs and some dairy.
You can google carnivore way of eating and YouTube have plenty of videos on it, KenDBerryMD, Anthony Chaffee MD are just 2 of many.
LynneG I wish you every success in whatever route you decide to take
Thank you Shaz123. Just what I needed to hear. Being Gluten Free and Grain free I make my own almond flour bread and that is going to be the hardest step. As nuts are def out on Carnivore arent they. I have a fatty drink of cacao or coffee made with unpasteurized butter and coconut oil and boiling water. I need to keep one or the other as I have read most people fail because of the lack of fat. Can't do the dairy except for butter. Might as well give it a go and see how I am . Thank you and well done xx
I gave carnivore a trail run for 3 weeks. I did feel so much stronger and more energy. Dropped 12 lbs in weight, and slept very well. I then got Epstein Barr reactivated and Strep B. Could not get rid of it. Had to end up in hospital on iv's. 4 lots of strong antibiotics. Ended up with gallstone problems on top of all this. Lost 34 lbs and I was not big to start with. All this left me with a meat aversion and my stomach, intestines and microbiome shot to pieces. To eat anything and sometimes just drinking water left me with crippling stomach pains and running to the toilet. Has taken me 18 months to get my tummy back to rights (nearly there). My muscles disintegrated, I have been so weak. Meat aversion gone in the last 3 weeks I am able to get more protein in now.
I am someone who is going to give carnivore another go once I am on top of things. I researched it and everything does make sense. There is no evidence that we ever need sugar and carbs. It would be interesting to see some research done on people with thyroid troubles but we won't hold our breath. Most doctors worth their salt are saying very low carb, high protein.
Thank you for the link. I have looked it up and seems v much a carnivore way of eating so temp having nothing but meat salt and water as a type of exclusion diet to see if conditions start to clear. Excellent mindset to start xx
autoimmunewellness.com/auto... website appears to have a way of checking what is good and not good for each of us while implemented a paleo diet which is far from carnivore. It also cites research which shows that hypothyroidism has been used in several studies with sucess. I am going to give it a go. Only fell into it last week. Will keep you up to date!
I started on the carnivore diet Dec 23. I have a few AI issues and CRP raised mildly for years and higher during a flare. On starting my kidney function was bad and cholesterol high also. After 6 months my kidney function is perfect, cholesterol down (not that I regard cholesterol as an issue) and my CRP normal for the first time in years. I lost nearly 60pounds as a welcome side effect.
My pain levels are practically nil and I feel fabulous. I can’t recommend it highly enough.
Follow Dr Ken Berry and Dr Ovadia and Dr Elizabeth Bright on YouTube for some fantastic information.
if you decide to try it, go slow on withdrawing the veg because of oxalate dumping and detox can flare people with autoimmune. If you take your time to adjust and start using more ketones for energy then you can see what it can do for you. There is also research that people om carnivore dont need same levels of t3 as people eating carbs- they simply utilise t3 a bit more efficiently, but that again is only checked by your body feedback.. Worth trying!
I can't see how eating a strictly meat diet could be beneficial for your body for a long time. Lack of essential nutrients like fiber, vitamins C, E, and K, and plant-based antioxidants, which are critical for immune function, heart health, and digestion. A diet high in red meat and saturated fats can elevate LDL (bad) cholesterol, potentially increasing the risk of heart disease and other cardiovascular issues. Absence of dietary fiber can lead to constipation, poor gut health, and imbalances in gut bacteria, which rely on fiber to thrive. High protein intake, especially from animal sources, may lead to calcium loss from bones over time, potentially increasing the risk of osteoporosis. High levels of protein can strain the kidneys, especially in individuals with preexisting kidney conditions, possibly leading to kidney stones or worsening kidney function. Excluding plant-based fats and certain nutrients can disrupt hormonal balance, affecting thyroid, adrenal, and reproductive health. I do understand why some people think this diet might be helpful because some individuals with autoimmune disorders may be sensitive to gluten, lectins, or other plant-based compounds. By removing them, they could reduce inflammation and immune activation. I still think we need to include plant-based foods in our diet for all the nutrients and benefits that they have. We are all individuals and what works for some may not work for others.
technically we weren’t built to only consume meat. It was my understanding we don’t have the stomachs for it but then again we’re not built to sit at computers all day either and here most of us are living that dream … there are many benefits to eating a clean and unprocessed diet as we weren’t built to withstand the processed food either but there are vital nutrients I think we’d miss out on should we only consume meat.
Clearly it’s had benefits for some people at least in the short term 🙂
My personal opinion is that reducing stress which includes what we stress our bodies with by what we are consuming both physically and mentally is a key benefit to helping those of us with autoimmune diseases- but I’m no expert 🙂
I have been trying very hard to stay on a meat based diet, but it is not easy to avoid carbs, vegetables, and seed oils as I eat out very often. Sweet treats are such temptation, too! I want to be on a meat based diet because for three months when I was strictly eating a mostly meat diet, my severe IBS (lasted almost two decades), bloated face, skin issues had disappeared within a week! No more health anxiety and negative thoughts even though I am still feeling unwell. No more sudden burst of tears in front of friends and family. Another noticeble change is I no longer have a runny nose when I eat hot food such as ramen and stew. These are long lasting effect since 2021. If onlyI could continue and see if this way of eating could put my Hashimoto's in remission. Need to have more motivation and will power first!
That's effectively the Atkins diet. It's hard work eating very little but meat, and these days very expensive. It was fine short term for weight loss but long term there were vitamin and mineral deficiencies and risks of gout, kidney stones and osteoporosis. Bearing in mind the findings on how red and processed meats can cause bowel cancer, I wouldn't think it would benefit you.
If you follow the Zoe team (YouTube) their research has found that the gut is your own pharmacy and I have certainly felt better since following it. A well fed gut rebalances the body.
Thank you for the alternative side of the argument. I do think red meat studies are flawed re causing cancer and they never take into account red meat reared naturally that the breed identifies with grass and forage fed as opposed to grain fed animals which are obviously going to be toxic. Personally I don't think it is more expensive when you cut out all money spent on junk food. Just look in peoples supermarket trolleys . Yes I have listened to the Zoe team. Basically we are all individuals and should be tested - fair enough, but thats expensive. Just my thoughts
I was on a carnivore diet for 9 months in 2023. I felt fantastic on it. I had beautifully steady supply of energy- like the flow of a clear stream or river. My mind lost it’s fogginess and I felt calm and my physical stamina and problem solving abilities were exceptional. Joint pain vanished . I also lost excess flab and my skin was better than it had been in years. I was still struggling with finding the correct thyroid hormone and dosing for me. (And I’m still struggling now after switching from Sigma Pharm to Tiromel- but that’s another story) . So I’m not saying that carnivore can solve everything. I fell off the carnivore way of eating due to major family problems and stress but I do want to get back to it. The only downsides were that I missed the freshness and crunch of vegetables and salads -I don’t think I need them at all, but I do enjoy them. It was easy for me to adapt to carnivore because I had previously had various periods of being low carb/ ketogenic. But generally for people not used to very low carb or carnivore there is an adaptation period of at least 6 weeks while your body gets used to burning fat for energy rather than sugar. It is true that free T3 lowers on a carnivore diet. But my understanding is that on a very low carb diet the body is able to utilise thyroid hormone more effectively- thus leaving less free T3 in the blood when it is measured on a blood test.
I'm starting again on my carnivore journey. I did two months in 2022 and felt great! Then the American holiday, Thanksgiving, happened and I feel hard off the wagon.
The cardiologist was Dr. Philip Ovadia. The neurosurgeon was Dr. Anthony Chaffee. I also listen to orthopedic doc, Dr. Shawn Baker, fertlity specialist, Dr. Robert Kiltz, Osteopathic doctor, Dr. Elizabeth Bright---she's an expert in thyroid health. I love family GP Dr. Ken Berry and his nurse wife Neisha Salas-Berry, who put her hashimoto's into remission by doing Keto/Ketovore.
Search YouTube you'll find so much information!! Kelly Hogan is another favorite of mine.
My struggle is my sweet tooth. That's what gets me everytime. I've heard it's easier to give up heroin than give up sugar. I know it was easier for me to give up alcohol (over 5 years sober) than give up sugar.
Thank you everyone for your replies. Lots of information there to consider
Yes sorry, I did not make it clear. The man my friend met was on a carnivore diet and had cured his health conditions
I asked my friend lots of questions but she had obv not asked him. Except that his wife too had started the carnivore diet and was doing very well. One of the questions I asked my friend (which she hadn't asked him ) was, did he eat any fruit.
I have asked her jokingly to hang about the river so she may bump into him again
It seems from more research yesterday that, hard core carnivores eat nothing but meat, (inc liver and other organs) And stated that all vitamins and minerals are provided by the animal meat. (grass and forage fed Not grain fed) I suppose I can see that albeit with difficulty because we know that animals make vit D and C , and v rich in B vits magnesium etc. We inc guinea pigs are one of the few animals that don't make our own vit C. So although it seems odd but eating carnivore will probably provide vit C etc .
Carnivores also make sure they get lots of animal fat. And eat raw dairy. So unpasteurised butter (which I already eat) but I cannot eat other dairy such as hard cheeses, yogurts, keifer which they recommend . Fat and eggs providing all the fat soluble vitamins , choline, extremely necessary.
Polyunsaturated refined vegetable oils are a big no no as extremely toxic and inflammatory in my opinion from what I have learned (which I have known for years and is devastating as I brought my children up on Flora margarine and sunflower oil following govt guide lines and the low saturated fat guide lines for which I will never forgive myself)
This carnivore way of eating does seem to benefit many with health/ autoimmune conditions and has a lot of support from doctors online including the cardio and neuro surgeon I previously mentioned.
It seems the answer to our not being like other carnivores is that we evolved from apes which were vegetarian and so had to have the teeth and jaw structure to enable the grinding and chewing of the vegetation for most wakeful hours. However our molars did evolve to become ridged and so more capable of chewing meat. We evolved an up and down jaw movement from the lateral jaw movement of the apes. And an alteration in our digestive tract - having developed a shorter colon whereas originally we would have had a longer ape like one to allow for the fermentation of all the plant material eaten. So basically we became suited to be omnivores because in times of scarce hunting we would need to depend on digging for roots and tubers but the nutrition derived from would be scant and that we only survived to become Homo Sapiens and current day humans because we evolved and lived almost 100 % on meat.
Another argument is that plants basically do not want to be eaten and have many chemical defence mechanisms to trigger a bad reaction in the animal /bacteria fungi consuming the plant. Which I believe is the argument for carnivores not to eat plants as these chemicals will trigger autoimmune reactions and eventually autoimmune disease
A lot of plants contain lectins and are high in other plant defence toxins . Particularly the seeds - their next generation . I have read a quick snapshot of the book the Carnivore Code for sale on amazon by Paul Saladino. Amazingly he has reverted back to eating some carbohydrates sometime after writing his book. Basically the less sweet fruits which are designed by nature to be enticing to eat and thereby spread the plants seed. So he does eat some fruit and cucumbers, lettuce presumeably with no lectins plants less toxic so our immune system is not triggered. But the great percentage of his diet is meat and some unpasteurized dairy. Interesting . I do need to do something as my inflammation levels have doubled in my recent August blood test. Hence the investigations and coming across the cardio and neuro surgeon carnivores.
So I may give it a go. I am already totally grain free and have been for 12 years.
Agree with everything you’ve said, though, I know there are plenty who won’t and I have no problem with that. We all need to find what works for us and what doesn’t. Mainly being carnivore works for me, for others it may not.
Have also found inflammation has subsided on this way of eating, which has been a great improvement for me. Not sure we need all that fibre either, eating veg, and I used to eat a lot, just gave me IBS.
You’ve certainly been researching the subject and I hope you enjoyed going down that rabbit hole!! I certainly did! It made me think, which is equally important.
Hi. I have Rheumatoid Arthritis and also wanted to try the Carnivore Diet so I went under a GP who fully endorsed it and had monthly bloods taken. All my levels returned to normal, sugars, liver, everything except for my inflammatory markers (CRP) which tripled. He said I was one of 5% who it didn’t work on and told me to introduce two fruits. Didn’t work, however I felt good. Back on a more Mediterranean diet, still sick, but everybody’s body responds differently so definitely would try it as I was small percentage that it didn’t work. Btw was on it for 4 months and most of my blood work is still good.
Hi, I have RA and have been on a lowish carb as in no grains so very low in sugar consumption , high natural fat but do eat salad tomatoes jacket potatoes and broccoli and cauliflower, berries pineapple cooked apple and watermelon. So I doubt that I could call myself Keto. I have started in the last 6 months eating 2 duck eggs for my first meal to provide vitamins but essentially choline to be beneficial for liver and now my liver enzymes which have been 10 or less for ever , have now risen to just out of normal range at 36. I have no idea what is going on so have been taking milk thistle for the liver for the last 3 months and liver enzymes have come down to 17, still not normal for me. I fought hard over the years to keep my CRP to get within normal range 4.5 or 5 but it has just doubled to 10. So I have to do something.
How wonderful that you found a supportive GP. Thanks so much for your information and support xx
Hi there . I know when I first was diagnosed with Hashimotos I gave up sugar dairy soy gluten corn .....then nightshades as part of the template from Functional Medicine . I lost 2 stone . But I needed protein with every meal otherwise I felt dreadful. My need for meat is not so high anymore I can have a couple of sequential days of veggie mains but for a long time i needed protein. A few years on I followed the Amy Myers elimination diet. Her book is valuable reading for any autoimmune condition. However staying on the restricted diet she expounds is not something that my FM practitioner advises as the microbiome needs to be as diverse as possible ; so you work towards removing intolerences and then slowly reintroducing things.
So in short I am interested that carnivore diet sorted this person out and it chimes a bit with me personally. But my path has been long an d slow .
Hi LynneG - I wasn't going to reply to this, being a strict vegetarian (for ethical reasons) myself... but, by coincidence, I read some very relevant information linked to this topic in a book I'm currently reading: 'Endure: Mind, Body and the Curiously Elastic Limits of Human Performance' by Alex Hutchinson.
Hutchinson primarily comes to endurance from a running perspective, but his book references many types of endurance feats, including Arctic and Antarctic exploration. In the chapter entitled 'Fuel" he describes an Artic explorer who existed with local Inuit people and ate like they did - so, essentially, a carnivore diet. The main things highlighted (many of which you've mentioned above, but I thought it worth reiterating...) were:
-There was a period of adaptation, during which overwhelming fatigue was a key experience
-The Inuit prized the fattiest cuts of any animal, in fact they gave the leanest meat to their dogs... so trying to survive on chicken thighs, for example, would not be ideal, nor would it match the Inuit's diet
-The Inuit eat all the animal's organs (which you mention above) as this is where the animal's vitamins and minerals are stored - hence why they don't get, for example, vit. C deficiency... so any level of squeamishness about eating heart, liver, kidneys, pancreas, etc. could mean that a 'carnivore diet' would not be successful.
Basically, people who want to follow the carnivore diet would need to eat the exact opposite of what would be considered the "prime" cuts in an omnivorous diet: they need the fattiest cuts, that actual fat layers, and all the organs rather than lean beef steaks, etc.. I feel like you're probably aware of this already, LynneG, but I wanted to mention it in case anyone else wants to try it and buys, chicken, lean beef mince, etc. and then suffer ill effects...
Thank you Eric for taking time to reply Apparently fat (from healthy raised animals) is far more than just as we see it as fat but contains many nutrients and I believe from what I have read is the key ingredient on the Carnivore diet. And for anyone who may not have gone down the rabbit hole as I have over the years. Fat does not make you fat, just an unfortunate name. Carbohydrates are digested to sugar , refined carbs such as anything made from flours are digested rapidly and the sugar/glucose hits the blood stream pretty quickly. I believe the blood stream can only support 1 teaspoon of sugar in the blood stream and note there are 12 teaspoons of sugar in one slice of toast. Insulin then has to be produced to carry the excess sugar to the liver where a very little can be stored and the excess, the liver has to convert to fat and store around your body mainly around your organs and waistline. So eating fat is not the cause of weight gain.
So I can understand that a carnivore diet with little to no carbs would help weight loss. And I know sugar /glucose is inflammatory - is this the reason for the effect of improving autoimmune or is it the toxic to us plant chemicals which initiate an immune response which eventually leads to an autoimmune condition, or both.
Fat from ruminants grazing their evolutionary intended diet - grass and forage fed creates totally different fat chemistry in the animal compared to grain fed animals . One supportive of our health (ALA : alpha linoleic acid) as opposed to high omega 6 harmful (LA) Chickens like most birds should not be fed grains. Grains (carbs are fed to the Chickens and other farm animals fed grain ) to fatten them up. So for instance chicken is the least healthy meat (incuding other grain fed animals) as opposed to what we have always been told. I asked my mother inlaw who frequently visited as a child her grandparents family farm in the 1940's, what food they fed the hens and chickens. She laughed, farmers couldn't afford to feed the hens, they ferrited around in the compost heaps eating the insects to be found living within. A natural diet of bugs and worms - meat not grain. A sorry tale of the demise of the food/farming industry.
Please remember Eric's information , fatty cuts of meat inc some organ meats from animals raised eating their natural diet being grass and forage fed.
Any exclusion diet needs to be examined very carefully and I would be wary of any extreme diets, which will over-consume a particular food to the detriment of other important foods or food groups. Yes, you might feel great at the beginning, but in the long term, it will lead to a very unbalanced diet and to dangerous deficiencies due to the the lack of essential nutrients.
The problem these days are processed and ultra-processed foods that are around in abundance. If you are relying on shop-bought items, it is quite difficult to avoid it, as it is everywhere. For example, many people think that gluten is a problem and they feel better without it. And by eliminating gluten they think they have found the problem. But is gluten really the driver, or is it for example the ultra-processed bread that has been processed with cheap ingredients very quickly, which causes the intolerance? Our traditional bread making, such as proper sourdough, is very rarely found these days, but interestingly many people seemingly reacting to gluten are completely fine with traditionally prepared breads such as sourdough, which makes the bread more digestible through fermentation. So perhaps a shift to more traditional and unprocessed foods that our bodies have evolved to tolerate might be a better route to explore first, before embarking on elimination. Poorly balanced gluten free diets are associated with a lack of dietary fibre and carry a higher risk of cardiovascular disease and the metabolic syndrome over the long term.
Lactose intolerance is affecting around 68% of the world's population. However lactose intolerance is NOT dairy intolerance, however it is always banded around as being the same. Lactase is the enzyme that digests the lactose in the milk into glucose and galactose and without sufficient amounts, this can lead to intestinal problems such as gas and bloating. However, there are lactose-free dairy products that can be tried, including cheeses that have been matured for 18+ months, as the lactose in there has been digested. Yoghurts are also low in lactose. And again, there are a lot of ultra processed cheeses and yoghurts full of emulsifiers and artificial sugars that might not be the best option (and these could actually be the problem!), but you still can find high quality, natural dairy products. However, missing out dairy in your diet completely has consequences over the long term, as dairy contains not only protein, but essential amino acids that the body cannot produce itself, as well as vitamins (A, B, D) and minerals (Ca, Mg, Se, Zn). And sadly, dairy alternatives have not got the same nutritional profile and many are also ultra-processed. Dairy free diets are associated with lower calcium intakes and increase the risk of osteoporosis and fractures. In addition, you will find it harder to get enough protein as well, which is especially important as we get older.
As they say, there is no such thing as a free lunch. Everyone has to decide what works best for them. But to me, it makes no sense at all to completely ditch an important food group, before thoroughly exploring alternative ways first.
Thank you for your thoughts and many of us I am sure would agree with you. Some of us have moved forward from using your view. Glyphosate contamination /spraying of grains and many crops could be an immune response to this poison rather than gluten itself but many modern day grains eg wheat now contain considerably more glutenin since the 1950s . So the answer has to be organic and for me no grains.
It has to be accepted though that many are coeliac or gluten sensitive or even have intestinal permeability where partially undigested gluten proteins pass through into the blood stream creating an immune response which a recognition that gluten or anything similar to the structure of a gluten protein (thyroid tissue) is an enemy to be attacked. So no allergy to gluten necessary just a leaky gut which most people have. No one is suggesting to jump on to the band wagon of gluten free products that again are the high sugar unhealthy products but to stick to food that are obviously not containing gluten
Issues with dairy are not always only as you suggest. I for one absolutely love cheese and aways found a handy protein source . However , even though I keep trying it on occasions . The day / 2 days after I have eaten I develop very painful knees, similarly with cream. It happens unequivocably . I can however eat unpasteurised butter which contains all the fat soluble vitamins (A D K2 and E). Minerals such as magnesium can be obtained from fatty avocadoes and calcium is higher in many veg than in milk. We learn what nutrients we need to be healthy and have to experiment to see what ideally suits our own bodies.
I have made my own bread by using organic almond flour for years. But I can survive without bread and if the toxins in nuts and other plants maybe responsible for my continuing autoimmune condition then I and some others it appears are willing to give other elimination diets and Carnivore a try xx
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