I really dont feel well at all. I have tachycardia back again, my eyes look like i have graves again and to be quite honest i feel suicidal.
I did not take my thyroid replacement medication yesterday as i feel the symptoms are that of factitious thyrotoxicosis and it states to stop or reduce replacement meds in these circumstances.
As i was reading this article it states that with factitious thyrotoxicosis i would not get the bulging eyes which i have started to get and wondered that as i am experiencing TEDS, thyroid eye disease, and other unwanted side effects which have all only occurred with the latest batch of liothyronine that i can not help wondering why.
I can not get in contact with any medical professionals as the current state of play with the virus and the nhs so really am unsure what to do or how long should i not take my medication for or if the beta blockers i had from last tachycardia issue started when i first started taking Levothyroxine would suit my new condition as the article mentions that i may have now graves so i remember giving my son my beta blockers as he had tachycardia too but the doctor said with graves the beta blockers are different form those with Hashis but they are all i ave at the moment so should, if it gets worse, just take those i have and fingers crossed i get through this still breathing and kicking but maybe not able to scream.
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I did not take any medication yesterday or this morning and feel just as bad.
I have been taking antihistamines and ive just looked up on line that they may be the cause for the dilated pupils but i just dont know for sure.
I have Hashis so now im thinking lupus, i have joint pains, stiff joints and difficulties breathing too, i get it every year around the sunny days. I was in the garden the day prior to feeling very unwell and have a rash up both forearms which lead me to solar urticaria which then highlighted lupus as a cause and because i have already got one autoimmune disease i read that it is common to get more along the way. I think the sun has possibly caused the symptoms of an immune response but again im not medically trained and am just following the signs so can not be sure.
I dont want to skip anymore medication as that may make things worse but i also dont want to take too much in case i am over medicated. Would i just wake up one morning and feel over-medicated, wouldn't i slowly feel less well.
I was going to ask you if you had Hashi's, because that could be the reason for all this. And, if you were having a Hashi's 'hyper' swing, it would happen suddenly.
When did you last have a blood test? Did you get a copy of the results? Because, looking through your past posts, I couldn't find any blood test results at all, and without those, it's very difficult to advise you.
What do you means when you say your eyes look like you have Grave's again? Are you sure you had Grave's? Grave's and Hashi's at the same time is possible, but pretty rare. Did you have a Grave's antibody test?
Indeed. But, in another post the OP was talking about her eyes turning yellow, and I wondered if that was what she was referring to here. As far as I know, yellow eyes is not a Grave's/TED symptom.
Quite right - typically liver related. From an excess of bilirubin on the blood. But also (possibly) an excess of carotene (though often described as more orange than yellow).
Good im glad you mentioned that as that is a very good point and another link to lupus as that affects the liver and if i am having a flare up i think the trigger was the sun. What should i do.
Sorry, but what do you mean by 'flare up'? Flare up of what? Hashi's? One doesn't have 'flare-ups', one has flares, which means a 'hyper' phase of the disease, so you would have hyper-type symptoms. Nothing to do with the sun. Although you could be allergic to sunlight, but that's something else.
I thought the sun may have triggered an immune response as yes i am allergic to the sun and have been for a long time or so i was told by my Gp after receiving a very nasty rash and swelling over my body a very long time ago, but as i have gotten older it is much worse. I thought that it was the immune response which causes the flare and the immune system to attack itself, thought it may have been the sun which initially woke it up to attack, but i have since found out i have been taking T3 by mercury and pharma which contains acacia which i am also allergic to, they did ask me before they handed my medications over but i said im not allergic to anything but what i meant was anything in addition too what is already on my medical record, eg acacia. So would i be feeling really ill now because ive consumed three weeks worth of acacia which may now be at a toxic level for me.
Yes, if you're allergic to acacia you, would be feeling pretty ill by now.
but i said im not allergic to anything but what i meant was anything in addition too what is already on my medical record
I'm afraid you have to be more precise than that when talking to doctors. They don't understand vague, anymore than they understand humour. They take you literally at your word. So, if you said you weren't allergic to anything, they would take your word for it, and wouldn't even look in your records. So, I'm not surprised that misunderstanding arose. Looks like you need a change of T3 brand.
I am very ignorant about how other things affect the liver.
However, I shall post an extract from a site which is expressly about autoimmune hepatitis. I am absolutely NOT saying you have this. Just posting to illustrate that there are many diseases, including some which are autoimmune, with at least some of the symptoms you have mentioned.
What are the symptoms of Autoimmune Hepatitis?
Symptoms of Autoimmune Hepatitis (AIH) can range from none to mild to severe. It is common to have no symptoms at the beginning. Some people may not have symptoms when they are diagnosed but they may develop them later. Others develop symptoms quickly over a few days (acute hepatitis – an illness that develops quickly).
The most common symptoms of AIH are:
feeling more tired than normal or becoming tired easily
feeling generally unwell
mild joint or muscle pains, usually these are worse in the morning
low appetite (not feeling hungry) and weight loss
feeling sick (nausea)
itching (pruritus)
skin rash
excessive hair growth (usually in women)
passing loose or more frequent bowel movements (diarrhoea)
absent periods/menstruation cycle (amenorrhoea)
tummy pain or bloating
When symptoms do start to appear, they often start over weeks or months. The symptoms are often nonspecific and have many possible causes so your doctor may not immediately attribute your symptoms to liver disease.
More severe symptoms, which usually occur late in the disease, may include:
the build-up of fluid in the legs, feet and ankles (oedema)
the build-up of fluid in the tummy (ascites)
confusion
jaundice – a condition in which the whites of the eyes go yellow and, in more severe cases, the skin also turns yellow
Thanks i have mentioned the yellowing of the eyes to my GP before and mentioned hepatitis but they were not concerned. Should or can i ask to be tested. Ive read some tests are not conclusive if testing methods are not up to date. An associate of mine had to go abroad for testing as her test results done here in the UK came back normal despite her having thyroid disease.
It just dawned on me that for the past several years every summer i end up in A and E with breathing difficulties, swollen and dilated eyes and feeling quite mad and now it all seems so clear, immune flare up. But shouldn't they have diagnosed that instead of telling me off for going to A and E. What should i do differently to not have to go through this ordeal again. Should i even take antihistamine or should i have something else as they just make me feel worse.
My last bloods were around Dec/Jan end of last and beginning of this year, i m due another now and will have that done Tuesday if all well. I will post my last and new result as soon as i can get my hands on them. My endocrinologist seemed fine with them at the beginning of the year.
When i first got diagnosed and ended up at the specialists despite being diagnosed with hypothyrodism, Hashis, one of the endocrinologists wrote to my old GPs and said he suspected graves. I know it all seems odd and it did to me too, i have wrote about it before, thats why i questioned my medication so much and thought that was why i was feeling so ill on levo if i had graves i should not be taking it but no- one really explained it very clear and it just got forgotten.
It just dawned on me that for the past several years every summer i end up in A and E with breathing difficulties, swollen and dilated eyes and feeling quite mad and now it all seems so clear, immune flare up.
No, seasonal rhinitis - hay fever. Antihistamine would seem to be the obvious thing to do.
My endocrinologist seemed fine with them at the beginning of the year.
Maybe, but endos know next to nothing about thyroid.
When i first got diagnosed and ended up at the specialists despite being diagnosed with hypothyrodism, Hashis, one of the endocrinologists wrote to my old GPs and said he suspected graves.
As I said, endos know next to nothing about thyroid. And rarely know the difference between Grave's and Hashi's. You were probably having a Hashi's 'hyper' phase, and he had a knee-jerk reaction and thought 'Ooo Ooo Oooo Grave's! Hyperthyroid!' Like they do.
Here is a brief run-done on how Hashi's works:
OK, so Hashi's is an autoimmune disease, where the immune system attacks and slowly destroys the thyroid. It is diagnosed by testing Thyroid Peroxidase (TPO) antibodies and Thyroglobulin (Tg) antibodies.
After every immuns system attack on the thyroid, the dying cells release their stock of thyroid hormone into the blood stream, causing the levels of the Frees to shoot up - FT4 to around 30 something, FT3 around 11/12 - and the TSH therefore drops to suppressed.
There is no knowing how long these high levels will persist, but eventually, they will drop by themselves as the excess hormone is used up or excreted, and not only will you become hypo again, but slightly more hypo than before, because there is now less thyroid to make hormone.
(NB: A Hashi's 'hyper' swing is not true hyperthyroidism in that your thyroid is over-producing thyroid hormone. It's physically impossible to 'go hyper' if you are basically hypo. The thyroid cannot regenerate itself to the point of over production of hormones - or even normal production. Very few doctors appear to know that.)
Therefore, it's very important that your doctor does not reduce your prescription, because you’re going to need it again! If you start to feel over-medicated at that point - some do, some don't - the best thing is to stop levo for a few days, then, when you feel hypo again, start taking it again. It's very important to know one's body, and how it reacts.
There is no cure for Hashi's - which is probably one of the reasons that doctors ignore it - apart from the fact that they know nothing about it, of course!
However, between the 'hyper' swing, and the descent back into hypothyroidism, there can be a phase - quite a long one, sometimes - of normality, where the person is neither hypo nor 'hyper'. This is where people sometimes start talking of having 'cured' their Hashi's, by whatever means. But, it doesn't last. Eventually, you will go hypo again.
But, there are things the patient can do for him/herself to help them feel a bit better:
a) adopt a 100% gluten-free diet. Hashi's people are often sensitive to gluten, even if they don't have Coeliac disease, so stopping it can make them feel much better. Worth a try. Some say that going gluten-free will reduce antibodies – I’ve never seen conclusive proof of that, but, you should be aware that even if you were to get rid of the antibodies completely, you would still have Hashi's, because the antibodies are not the disease. It is not the TPO/Tg antibodies that do the attacking.
b) take selenium. This is not only reputed to reduce antibodies, but can also help with conversion of T4 to T3 - something that Hashi's people often find difficult.
c) the best way to even out the swings from hypo to 'hyper' (often called Hashi's Flares, but that doesn't really sum up the way it works) is to keep the TSH suppressed. This is difficult because doctors are terrified of a suppressed TSH, for various false reasons, and because they don't understand the workings of Hashi's. But, TSH - Thyroid Stimulating Hormone (a pituitary hormone) - tries to stimulate the thyroid to make more hormone, which also stimulates the immune system to attack. So, the less gland activity there is, the less immune system activity there will be, meaning less attacks, gland destruction slowed down and less swinging from hypo to hyper and back.
I think im starting to see no real light at the end of this tunnel. The false cure is a real wake up call as thats exactly how i was feeling, well and really well and i looked well for all of about a month then i get another attack and look like an absolute mess.
Thanks for the wake up im not doing balance to well. Im high for a day and already my system is out to bring me down and down ill be until my one high day and then down again. Feeling happy and positive must be the trigger, what chemicals are released then we are happy and content, they are the enemy.
I was doing the Keto diet and was doing very well, i lost a lot of weight and was feeling great. My crash has made me stumble and crave chocolate and junk i guess im thinking i may as well as my system is killing me anyway. Have you heard of Dr Berg Keto and intermittent fasting, i was doing that.
Tomorrow i will not take any antihistamine and see what my eyes do without any, if the pupils are reactive all is well and i know it was the histamines but if they are the same i guess it due to the immune attack and i guess there is not a lot i can do now but to asses the damages done once my body absorbs the concentrations in my blood and try again.
You are very good at the written word greygoose and i find your form of english very digestible, thank you for making it so easy to explain.
What false cure? There is not cure for anything thyroid related, only treatment. I'm afraid I'm having great difficulty following your line of thought.
Feeling happy and positive must be the trigger, what chemicals are released then we are happy and content, they are the enemy.
Sorry, but that's rubbish. There are no chemicals released when we are happy, and if there were, why would they be the enemy?
My crash has made me stumble and crave chocolate and junk
That's a pretty sure sign that you have nutritional deficiencies. You really need to get everything tested and find out.
TSH
FT4
FT3
TPO antibodies
Tg antibodies
vit D
vit B12
folate
ferritin
CRP
If you get all that tested, it will give you a much better idea of what is really going on. At the moment, I have the impression that you are just fantasising, to be perfectly honest, and don't really know how it all works. I think you need to do a lot of reading to better understand these things.
Tomorrow i will not take any antihistamine and see what my eyes do without any, if the pupils are reactive all is well and i know it was the histamines but if they are the same i guess it due to the immune attack and i guess there is not a lot i can do now but to asses the damages done once my body absorbs the concentrations in my blood and try again.
I'm sorry, none of that makes sense. Not taking your antihistamine for one day won't prove anything. Everything needs time to sort itself out.
An immune attack on what? Your thyroid? Your liver? I really don't think yellow eyes have anything to do with thyroid, whether hypo or hyper.
"However, between the 'hyper' swing, and the descent back into hypothyroidism, there can be a phase - quite a long one, sometimes - of normality, where the person is neither hypo nor 'hyper'. This is where people sometimes start talking of having 'cured' their Hashi's, by whatever means. But, it doesn't last. Eventually, you will go hypo again."
You mentioned having cured there Hash's in the above quote, I was agreeing with you i also felt cured of my hash's and i too did not last, i was woken from a belief i could feel better permanently
" Sorry, but that's rubbish. There are no chemicals released when we are happy, and if there were, why would they be the enemy?"
Endorphins are released when we are happy and when we exercise, i guess they must work the same way as when your friend is unhappy and angry and jealous because you have stuck to your diet and they feel they have failed perhaps, perhaps an unknown at this time reason but what i have read about hormones when one is up the other is down and what goes up must come down is a fact of physics as i know them. I know in the matrix things are different.
My craving for chocolate and junk are due to the fact that thyroid replacement hormones increase blood sugar which can make you crave more sugar.
" Search Results
Featured snippet from the web
Low thyroid hormones cause a drop in insulin levels — insulin is a hormone needed to take sugar from the blood to different cells throughout the body. Low insulin levels cause high blood sugar levels and slows down in cellular function, including muscle contractions and basic brain function.17 May 2019
Diabetes symptoms with an underactive thyroid — BOOST ...
It is likely that glucose levels will stabilize during hypothyroidism treatment. But when thyroid function is normalized, this may lead to higher blood glucose levels and adverse effects on glycemic control."
"I'm sorry, none of that makes sense. Not taking your antihistamine for one day won't prove anything. Everything needs time to sort itself out.
An immune attack on what? Your thyroid? Your liver? I really don't think yellow eyes have anything to do with thyroid, whether hypo or hyper.
Concentrations of what in your blood?
in reply Histamines are taken one daily, not to take two in any twenty four hour period, again i am assuming that by the twenty four period i do not have any substantial amount left to create any kind of issue, if by the very least i am not adding any more to the pot, the pot being me. I do agree that it may take longer for it to be fully removed from my system as if only for the reason my system if its is on a hyper phase should be moving quicker and thus rid it out my system efficiently or if i am not having a hyper phase it will be in my system for a wee bit longer, get the gag there, wee.
The immune attack i would guess would be all areas affected, eg eyes, brain function, yellow eyes could mean liver, Heart and circulatory pretty much the entire of me.
The yellow eyes i was connecting to the liver and not thyroid related but due to the nature of metabolic diseases could be a contributing factor if waste is accumulating, e g chronic constipation which i have. but auto immune related to lupus and other autoimmune diseases.
The concentrations of the hyper phase which you said the affected cells which had died in the attack would release there all into the blood.
You mentioned having cured there Hash's in the above quote, I was agreeing with you i also felt cured of my hash's and i too did not last, i was woken from a belief i could feel better permanently
I didn't say they were cured, I said they think they're cured. There is no cure for Hashi's. It will always come back, sooner or later.
Endorphins are released when we are happy and when we exercise
Yes, but they don't have a permanent effect. They soon wear off.
The immune attack i would guess would be all areas affected, eg eyes, brain function, yellow eyes could mean liver, Heart and circulatory pretty much the entire of me.
I've never heard of an immune attack that affected the whole body. If you have Hashi's, it only affects the thyroid. The attacks tend to be very specific. You cannot just assume that you have other autoimmune diseases just because you have Hashi's. I have Hashi's, but don't have any other autoimmune disease.
The concentrations of the hyper phase which you said the affected cells which had died in the attack would release there all into the blood.
I said the dying thyroid cells would release their stock of hormone into the blood, yes. But, you don't appear to have hyper symptoms.
I, in my naive state truly believed i was cured, now that you announce that Hashis can never be cured, i change my mind and announce that i truly thought i was cured of some of the symptoms that i was experiencing which truly felt like a cure at the time. I was aware that you had already came to that conclusion immediately whilst reading your text.
I agree endorphins do wear off and i guess thats why some people, energy permitting, become addicted to exercise.
Yes i was aware that specific autoimmune diseases only attack specific parts. I know the key is to stay suppressed to avoid immune attacks but i really did think my TSH was suppressed at my last blood draw yet still things have gone bad for me but i will not know what has gone wrong until i get my bloods done and then they will not check the antibodies to see if they have flared so not sure how i will know if the bloods come back normal and within good ranges. Did you not mention prior that you had issues with your hair falling out, is that not an auto immune response, forgive me my ignorance if i am incorrect.
Would i be so wrong if i assumed that after an immune attack on any organ that, that would also result in that specific organ also dumping its load into the blood stream which too would take time to clear. How long would it take do you think, would it depend on the size of the attack, the length of the attack ??? Any ideas.
i really did think my TSH was suppressed at my last blood draw yet still things have gone bad for me
It may well have been suppressed at your last blood draw. But, that doesn't mean that it still is. Because of the behaviour of the dying cells, levels of TSH, FT4 and FT3 can jump around a lot. And, after an attack, your FT4 and FT3 will suddenly rise sharply, causing hyper like levels, and therefore your TSH will become suppressed - but that doesn't happen instantly, because the TSH moves much more slowly than the FT4/3.
Eventually, the excess levels of T4 and T3 will be used up/excreted, and you will go back to hypo levels again, with hypo symptoms.
they will not check the antibodies to see if they have flared so not sure how i will know if the bloods come back normal and within good ranges
It's not about the antibodies. They move up and down independently of what's going on in your thyroid. And, there's absolutely no need to retest them once you've had a positive result. Their level doesn't tell you anything about your thyroid or your Hashi's. So, just forget them.
The blood levels could well come back in normal range (which doesn't automatically mean that they are normal!) if excess hormone has all gone, as mentioned above. So, no, you can't know if you're having/have had a Hashi's 'hyper' swing unless you manage to test at exactly the right time. But, it doesn't really matter. What matters is the level of your thyroid hormone (T4 and T3) right now.
Did you not mention prior that you had issues with your hair falling out, is that not an auto immune response, forgive me my ignorance if i am incorrect.
I did indeed mention that. Hair loss can be due to an autoimmune disease. It can be due to low thyroid hormones. But, I think what happened to me was malnutrition after a long illness and two weeks in hospital, where nobody cares if you eat or not, nor asks why you're not eating! Which I find inexplicable. But, my ferritin and B12 were low - they wouldn't test folate or vit D - and, after I had been supplementing them for a few months, the symptoms - such as hair loss - improved. My hair has improved a lot, now, since I started treating with castor oil, but it's still not back to the way it was before.
Many, many things can cause hair-loss, it's difficult, sometimes, to track down the cause.
Would i be so wrong if i assumed that after an immune attack on any organ that, that would also result in that specific organ also dumping its load into the blood stream
I'm afraid I only really know about Hashi's, and a little bit about Grave's, but I'm not sure that other organs have anything to dump. What were you thinking about? For example, there's no specific attacks, and no dumping in Grave's, it's a completely different illness, with its own way of progressing. Other autoimmune diseases have their own modus operandi, too. What would there be to dump with lupus or vitiligo?
How long would it take do you think, would it depend on the size of the attack, the length of the attack ?
So, I can't really answer that question in any meaningful way. But, if we're talking Hashi's, the time it would take for excess hormone to evacuate the blood would probably depend on how much thyroid was left to produce hormone. But, also on a lot of other things. And, on the individual. I'm not sure any scientific studies have been done on it, though, so it would probably be impossible for anyone to generalise, they can only talk about their own experiences.
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