Over medication symptoms and odd pulse

[liaratsoni]

Hi everyone,

I already posted about issues that have recently started with T3 and they have continued to get worse. I have been on 75mcg levo and 10mcg T3 for months and was fine but not yet optimal as still felt constantly tired and had some digestion issues. However over the last few weeks I seemed to start having more and more T3 issues and over the last week I am certain I am overmedicated - I can't get blood tests due to the current situation but on the 10mcg I am now having visible shaking/tremor, periods of extreme anxiety, constant sleepiness, mild headaches and feeling like I'm out of my body, difficulty focusing my eyes, shortness of breath/air hunger, insomnia, overheating and waking in the middle of the night in a hot anxious sweat and strangely slightly bulgy hand veins. After a horrible night the other day I didn't take any T3 yesterday and still had some lingering issues but otherwise felt much better - I also felt much less sleepy and like a normal person! Today I took 7.5mcg (ie 2.5mcg less than normal) but I have had a return (though not as dramatically strong) of the symptoms and am feeling very uncomfortable.

As mentioned when I started thyroid medication I was underweight with hypothyroid induced gastroparesis and got worse on the first few months of levo only until I had an incredibly low BMI and weight for my height but over the last month with T3 I have been gaining back my weight in addition to seeing my vits and mins shoot back up to normal after being rockbottom for years. Nothing else has changed so the only thing I can think is that me gaining weight and eating a normal amount of calories has upped my conversion and with the added T3 it's too much (I seem to respond very strongly to thyroid hormone with each increment of T4 or T3 taking me up the range a fair bit.) Aside from the issues above I actually feel the closest to normal I have felt in years and like I'm almost there. I know really I need to get my bloods tested but for now is a decrease of 5mcg - so only 5mcg of T3 a day an OK amount to decrease by to try and resolve the symptoms? I still have just over a stone of weight to gain before I reach the minimum threshold weight for my height so I'm wary of stopping t3 altogether incase when I (hopefully) gain weight I end up needing a little more.

The only other thing of note is that my pulse is very odd. When I wake up its 60 and after I eat in the morning it goes up and oscillates all day between 68 and 80. It then always falls at night back to 60 but over the last few weeks its often been lower and yesterday (when I took no t3) it was 52! Is it normal and OK for it to oscillate this much? I thought a pulse was normally steady throughout the day.

Thank you all for you continuing help!

[Hidden]

Yes best to pull back on the T3 if you are getting adverse symptoms. I'm wondering how your cortisol levels are - have you ever done an 8.00 a.m. blood cortisol test or 4 point saliva test? Granted it's not possible to do that at the moment but it could be important, as those reactions to T3 sound very much like adrenaline reactions, and that would happen if your cortisol is too low. T3 needs sufficient cortisol. If there isn't enough, your body makes adrenaline as that's the only way it can cope.

What time are you taking your T3? The only thing I can think of trying is to try a very small (say 5 mcg) dose of T3 a couple of hours before your normal get up time. So say you normally wake at 7.00 a.m., you would take your 5 mcg T3 at 5.00 a.m. This can help boost cortisol production. If you feel worse, then obviously stop. Have you read any of Paul Robinson's books? The Thyroid Patient Manual explains a lot about how thyroid hormones work and what is needed for that in terms of adrenal function, vitamins and minerals.

[liaratsoni in reply to Hidden]

Hi thank you for the response! I had cortisol tested because my endo suspected secondary hypothyroid and he said my cortisol was normal but the test wasn't brilliant as it was a single blood test at 12.30pm. I think I have definitely had cortisol issues in the past - when I started T3 I had issues with headaches, internal and external shaking and a slightly faster heart rate and I would ocassionaly wake in early morning with a higher heart rate and warm and I had to increase T3 very slowly. This feels a bit different as for the first time I feel otherwise a LOT better and these symptoms are much stronger - I have never had the out of body air hunger symptoms before. I had been taking high dose vit c for a few weeks beforehand too. That is interesting about the 5mcg in early morning! I will look into Paul Robinson too! Thank you

[Tel3s]

Hi, do you take the brand Tevo Levothyroxine? The symptoms you have sound very similar to what I experienced, when taking the brand Tevo. On doing some investigation I found out they replaced Lactose with Manotol and that the French had done the same a while back but was made to change back to the original ingredients, due to side effects. I am now on North Star and feel 80% better. Hope this helps x

[liaratsoni in reply to Tel3s]

Thank you for the reply! I did have a horrible reaction to TEVA horrendous nausea and reflux so I always make sure to get mercury pharma 50 + 25 which I do well on. x

[endomad]

I agree read Paul Robinson book. T3 and Ndt all highlight adrenal problems. However as I am often saying t3 is not a magic bullet it is not a cure all for thyroid problems. It does not mean a short cut to wellness without all the other parts of the jigsaw in balance. It is normal for pulse to increase with activity however it sounds like you don't feel well, if it makes you feel worse then either lower dose or leave it. That is a big list of unpleasant side effects and reactions to t3, if it were me I would be looking at everything from scratch, especially your low iron as it wont have changed dramatically in 28 days. Food mood supplements activity sleep medication everything, do you keep a daily journal?

There are no quick fixes, it takes time to get vitamins and iron optimal, your tests a month ago are low. You say you need to gain weight and have constipation, coconut oil is good, it will add healthy fats/calories and aid transition. Whizz it up in warm water with a weight gain (high protein high carb powder) as a warm drink twice a day. Coconut oil also good for leaky gut/malabsorbtion, you should also look into making your own kefir to get tummy in balance. x

[liaratsoni in reply to endomad]

Thank you! I always measure my pulse when I have been sitting resting for at least 10 minutes. My last ferritin was 89 (15-250) which I thought was a good level? I do keep a detailed daily journal to track symptoms. My constipation has improved a lot recently too and I am gaining weight at a good pace and I've already gained back nearly 10 pounds so far! I am feeling so much better like I am almost there and this only started in conjunction with what I said above so it feels like something has changed in my uptake or production of T3! lts a balancing act trying to fine tune it without blood tests and as I keep gaining weight haha! x

[endomad in reply to liaratsoni]

If you are keeping a detailed journal you already have your answer, you say your reactions are to the t3. I would consider those bad side effects, especially the shaking insomnia and over heating. Did you have ecg and bone density scan before prescribed t3 what was your cortisol result?

There are so many variables and we are all different so must learn to listen to our bodies, it's all trial and error but if your basics like vits iron and cortisol are not optimal then your not starting from a good position. It's like untangling a ball of string, it's all connected.

[liaratsoni in reply to endomad]

Yes thats why I was concerned about them though the insmonia and overheating only started over the last week. I didn't have either but I had an ecg on the 3rd of march and it was fine. No ranges were given but cortisol was 241 at 12.30 midday. Yes I definitely agree! I was started on the T3 without optimal vits etc purely because I was so ill - The gatsroparesis was so bad I couldn't eat and had deteriorated dramatically so I had to get some T3 in me. The fact I am feeling so much better otherwise right now makes me think ironically it may because somethings finally going right! It's typical of my whole journey that I can't get blood tests now when I really need them though haha!

[endomad in reply to liaratsoni]

241 for mid day is within range. Blood tests are only part of the picture. Ecg 6 weeks ago so that's recent. I'm surprised they didn't do bone scan, you are more at risk of osteoporosis if under weight and some think t3 is another factor.

We must all make our own decisions health wise, I personally would be reducing or removing t3 if I had those top 3 over medicated symptoms, at least until I had sorted everything else first. It's difficult when you feel so ill, you just want to feel better and you want it quickly. My thyroid was removed and it took few years to undo the damage that under treatment and wrong meds did. It's like keeping 10 plates spinning, drop one they all crash.

[liaratsoni in reply to endomad]

Thats really good to know about the cortisol though I agree! Yes thats what I am doing - the symptoms seem to have gradually escalated over six weeks and reached a awful peak right now so with nothing else having changed I think a reduction/removal of T3 is necessary and I will see if I continue to feel so good! It really is a balancing act and I think the longer you've been left without treatment the more simultaneous problems you develop!

[Debimmm]

Hi, I agree with all above comments. I too did not get on well with Tevo brand and many side effects including the blurry eyes, by way of coincidence I was at an opticians appointment when he noticed in the eye health check my muscles at the back were very relaxed causing the blurry vision a symptom of under medicated thyroid and referred me to GP, however it was actually how I was absorbing the medication because my body did not like the filler in Tevo. My reaction was malabsorption.

In your case I think it maybe Reverse T3 you have too much and could stop all T3 for a few days to let it clear ( listen to your body) then reintroduce 2.5mcg for 4 days and increase every 4-7 days towards your dose or stop where you feel good, but give it time to react and for your body to feel any benefit before increasing again.

RT3 is horrible and we have a tendency to start to produce RT3 in times of prolonged stress because of the link to cortisol. You need to clear it from your system completely to see how you feel, only you will know when you start to feel better but probably around the 7 day mark or more likely after a couple of nights of a good quality sleep.

Good luck 🍀

[liaratsoni in reply to Debimmm]

I too had an awful reaction to TEVA so never take it! It is interesting because these last couple of weeks I feel otherwise pretty great and when I didn't take the T3 2 days ago after the issues I felt almost normal. Thats why I wonder if too much T3 is the issue. Before I wasn't converting at all and I think my body was likely in increased RT3 mode as I had been hypo for years and with my low bmi/inability to eat or absorb nutrients and shot adrenals everything was a mess! But now that I am gaining weight, eating normally, vitamins are all good etc I wonder if my body is now diverting more of my T4 into T3 and that plus the added T3 is just too much - I was already 70% through the T3 range when I wasn't converting on 10mcg T3. I'm definitely going to take your advice and listen to my body - see how my body feels with the reduced T3 and responds to a tiny increase! Thank you

[liaratsoni]

Ah thats really good to know that the fluctuation seems normal! I don't worry about it too much because it seems not to relate particularly to my symptoms - last night I was back to 56! Just something I was curious about! Thank you

[SilverAvocado]

Liaratsoni, If you've done well on this dose for some time and then quite suddenly started to feel overmedicated then it sounds like a Hashimoto's flare up. Do you know if you have Hashimoto's?

The thyroid gland stores hormone as well as makes it, so as the illness slowly destroys the thyroid, sometimes excess hormone can be dumped into the bloodstream causing a sudden uptick in hormone levels. Some people are troubled by these very often and they last a long time. For others they are a rare occurrence.

Unfortunately there isn't much discussion on the forum of how to manage them, and I don't have Hashimoto's myself so have no experience. But it sounds like you are doing everything right, observing and recording symptoms, and adjusting your dose. If it is a flair eventually it will subside and levels should return to what they were before.

The only other thing I could think of that might cause a change in hormone needs is the hot weather we've recently been having. Some people need a lower dose in the Summer, and then increase again when it starts to get cold.

[liaratsoni in reply to SilverAvocado]

That is a really good point that I didn't think of! Its still up in the air whether I have hashis or not but it's interesting because last year in the middle of being at my worst I did have a period where I suddenly got a bit better for a time - before meds - then got worse again. I guess as you say I will just have to wait and see what happens! I did think of that too as I live in south england so we usually get the warmest of the weather! I will be interested to see what happens when its (supposedly) gets cooler again next week!