Well I'm On high dose Armour. 90mg 2xs a day. My TSH 0.5 and my T3/T4 both got way lower not higher. Why is it Everytime I increase thyroid meds. The T3/T4 drop?! Do i not need meds but rather something else is going on not hypothyroid? I did have low Iodine months back. Not sure if am now. But I am gaining weight not losing and full of edema. When I stop meds I actually lose weight some. Also, my tsh was 4-5.5 for 2 years until dr upped meds and now it finally got lower on TSH. However for 12 years prior on dose I felt great fit skinny lean and happy. Now. No muscle tone nor able lose edema and look 60 at 36. No dr can tell Me why legs look this way. Aged wrinkled edema and cellulite all on front thighs and heavy sagging in entire leg from eight if fluid probably and butt is same way. I was always fit and muscle thin. Outta blue 2-3 yrs ago completely shifted on no dietary change. I was mainly vegan and still Mostly am. Never any corn wheat gluten or dairy. Please help!
My reverse T3 is under low level. But usually was around 1-2 points above low level
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Jo1884
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Can you post the actual blood test results with the ranges?
2x 90mcg of Armour isnt that high. I take 4x 65mcg per day of Acella -simular ratio of thyroid hormones. I think your 90 x2 is the equivalent of 3grains of Armour if I remember right.
However what is important is your uptake of thyroid hormones. So have you checked your B12, iron, ferritin & vit D. These need to be optimal not just in range or we cant absorb or convert our thyroid hormones as well.
Why do your hormones drop after an increase I dont know but it could be that your metabolism is slowly rising after each increase so you are using more thyroid hormones. Am sure someone more scientific will come along & explain.
You need your TSH under 1 and your thyroid hormones in the top third of the range, some people need them near the top of therange.
Post your blood test results then people will comment
However all my labs get lower every increase of thyroid med dose it seems. Nothing picks up t4. And t3 sorta low now when usually half way up and rt3 low but usually between 10-12
Your TSH isn't actually low, it's quite high for someone on 3 grains of Armour. And your FT4/3 are low - FT3 is too low. rT3 and TT3 are useless tests for your purposes and not worth doing. They don't give you any useful information.
So, looks rather like you're not absorbing your Armour very well. How do you take it? On an empty stomach, waiting at least an hour before eating, etc.? Do you take any other medication/supplements at the same time?
What do you mean: 90/60? Do you mean 90 one day and 60 the next? If so, that is wrong, wrong, wrong. You can't do that with NDT, it has to be a continuous regular dose every day.
I am 60 but don't look or feel it so I would be interested to know what you think 60 looks like? Your legs look like they are retaining water. What did your Doctor say about them? When I was under active my legs had a lot of goose flesh or keratosis pilaris on them. I tried to get rid of it by using a body scrub but nothing worked. This has now disappeared because my levels are better and I am in remission from Graves' disease.
I been looking scaly aged since 33. Wrinkled and bad thinned. I never been a sun person. Never smoked or drank and ate fairly clean i felt. Mainly began and raw foodest for years. Felt best. Then started eating meats and all this happened. Was lean strong healthy happy. Then outta blue swelled up bad and has only gotten worse since first started begging drs to help me and what is this? At 115# i was lean and muscle everywhere but legs were ripply dimply mess. Now 145# and cant see a muscle or feel on me. Im fluid head to toe. Drs kept saying its thyroid related. Yet got my number under 1. And they look same still. So fired dr cause paying for answers n help out ass, cause she looked at me and said no idea honestly and wanted to play guessing game with me. So sad
I have seen a few women who have dimpled legs and to be honest I have no idea how you can get rid of it. I have very slim legs so I am lucky but I used to hate them when I was younger because they looked horrible when I wore hot pants (the fashion in the 70s) My daughter has the same slim legs and we both inherited them from my mother. I wish I could advise you of a solution.
I sorry this happening young. I got this at menopause, is there a link too,wth your sex hormones just a thought? I developed like an apron when had always had neat waste etc amput weight on
The best thing that helped me generally was working with the leaky gut and probiotics, taking the vitamins up that we are told, to do plus don't forget magnesium, zinc all important Have you considered detoxing liver and skin brushing. I've been looking to do this as we can't absorb well if clogged up
And to have good fats, advocado, even peanut butter, coconut oil?.... I kept rigid and gluten free and it helped a lot at that point as like,you my tsh remains over Four Lots of good wishes
Ps. It's the whole,thing I guess, and has anyone mentioned adrenal link, difficult to treat I know, but sure it's in the same loop
I've been shown Paul Robinson circanan link (spellcheck). if,you have a Google, and there is u tube videos. And book
Basically it's not a difficult method but he does have a good point I'm proud to say I did think vaguely of,this idea myself but too unknowledgable
It's taking the t3 during night stand the time your natural release happens, have a listen as he says it has worked very well indeed for many, it's the missing link, and if course, this may bring the adrenals back into better sync too.
Just to add that the paul Robinson method is to support adrenals as says they need t3 and ndt is fine if used in his method but knock on effect has made people have wellness
He says it's pacifically if your morning cortisol is low. I just had a reread
Do you eat much soy? Since you prefer a vegan diet, I thought you might eat more soy. Soy can inhibit thyroid function, especially if you are low in iodine.
Thats what I think. But too. Maybe i dint have enough protein? Or cant absorb, so causes more issues? When was a strict vegan raw foodest i felt best. But everyone said not good.
So either it caught up to me and hurt me or i needed stick to it.
It can be trial and error sometimes but I am always trying to listen to my body to figure out what it needs or doesn’t need. If you felt better on your previous diet, what’s wrong with that. You can get quite a bit of protein without eating meat. I might have fish a couple of times a week And then for the most part follow a plant based diet. A protein shake or drink will supply you with a substantial amount.
I would do what waveylines has suggested. When I had those tested and then got them optimal I’ve been so well. Optimal is important though so near the top of the ranges but it can take time, depending on how low things are to get them where needed but they help your thyroid to work much better. If toyr doctor with test those levels then start a thread asking for advice. Lots of us need to supplement and it’s often for life. As thyroid patients we lose things rapidly so need to be checked often to find the dose that is helping once you are optimal. Been a life changer for me.
It appears that you are on the highest dose recommended for Armour thyroid at 180 mcg/3 grains. Are you taking your medication at the right time of day and on an empty stomach. Ideally you should take your tablets on an empty stomach early in the morning and leave some time before eating and drinking breakfast. I take my Armour at 6am with a glass of water and then I have my breakfast at about 8am. From my recall I am aware that thyroid medication should be taken 4 hours either side when taking iron and calcium supplements because these supplements can stop your gut absorbing the thyroid hormones. I don't take these supplements so I think I'm okay waiting 2 hours.
Ty. I take no supplements as all are perfect in blood. Always empty stomach.
My issue is not absorbing the medicine as I am obviously absorbing it the problem is my TSH gets lower and lower but my T3 and T4 get lower and lower so my doctor wants to slow my dose down and split it in half instead to get my TSH back up it doesn’t matter what my TSH is my T3 and T4 do not move up
No, your problem is your doctor, who doesn't understand thyroid. Reducing your dose due to the level of your TSH is wrong. Forget the TSH. When you are T3 it is going to be low, there's no way round that, that's the way it works. And, it's low for a very good reason: you don't need it! The pituitary has sensed that there is enough thyroid hormone in the blood, so has stopped producing it. Why would it knock itself out making a hormone that is no-longer needed?
Why do you think you're 'obviously absorbing it'? If your FT3/4 are getting lower, you're obviously not absorbing enough of it. If you were, your T3 at least would be higher.
And, what are your 'perfect' nutrients? Have you posted blood test results somewhere? If not, can you do so, please, and let's have a look at them?
You are right ... look at me .. in the past my TSH has been in range but I had loads of symptoms because my T4 and T3 was too low. The TSH means zilch imho.
This is not thyroid hormone resistance. The hormone doesn't even seem to be getting into her blood. Some sort of absorption problem, could be low stomach acid, leaky gut… Or, taking the hormone with something else.
What can i do? Stomach acid could be a problem. Can i chew pills or??? Im trying work on that. Was ...binge purging for a few years and stopped all of that as can. Not sure if it did anything to me or what?! ;( i did eat a meal daily or two n chips before bed. Soni held food down always too. It was a viscous sad cycle. Sorry. Just incase this helps me understand whats going on or if you can help me. Sorry. Ty
Unless you are deficient in some nutrients, I doubt it has anything to do with diet, either. But, low stomach acid would affect the way you absorb your thyroid hormone. So, have a read of this article, and try the home test at the end:
Hi, I can really sympathise as I was always very lean and a keep fit fanatic before I became hypothyroid. I have very thin dry, scaly skin and have tried everything. I also have oedema and my mothers legs when she was 66 years of age looked younger than mine, so I understand what you mean. I keep my legs covered up.
When I was on armour thyroid many years ago, I took the armour thyroid by placing the tablets under my tongue which seemed to help. My tablets were withdrawn when they stopped prescribing armour and t3 medication
I am currently on levothyroxine 100mcg and thybon henning 10mcg per day and I am having bloods done next week to check my levels. I was feeling well, fluid retention was not as bad and I was losing weight but everything has changed, so I am presuming my levels are not where I feel best.
Sorry I can't help much but you are not alone. Greygoose has a wealth of knowledge as do others who can help.
I very much doubt the pituitary would have anything to do with it. Do you know what your blood levels where when you were diagnosed? Your TSH is low because you're taking T3. The pituitary has sensed that there's enough thyroid hormone in the blood and has lowered its production of TSH. That is perfectly normal. Why would you want more TSH? It doesn't do anything much, not when you're taking T3.
Jo1884, I think if it's really true that as you increase your dose then your freeT3 is reduced consistently, then this is a puzzling issue. You'd need to have about 4-6 blood tests in a row to show it was really happening. I've found that sometimes my freeT3 has stayed the same or dropped slightly a few times as I've increased my dose, but as I keep increasing it eventually does shift.
The first step is probably just continuing to increase and see where you get to. You can ignore the TSH once on thyroid hormone replacement, and just look at the freeT3. Many people will end up with a TSH more like 0.05 or undetectable by the time they feel well.
As others have said, leaky gut and digestive issues are the first thing to look into. Some hypo people really need animal fats and meat, even though many are tempted to be vegetarian or vegan.
Unfortunately it's very common to do well on a certain dose for years or decades but then quite suddenly have a big change in needs. This happened to a friend of mine when he was around 30.
If you've got each set of results I suggest making a new post and including all the thyroid results laid out in chronological order, clearly labelled with the thyroid dose at the time. People will be able to comment on that, but can't really tell much just from a description of the figures.
Unfortunately doctors often stand in the way of getting better and trying all the doses we need If there is anything unusual going on you will almost certainly have to self medicate or find a naturopath who can prescribe. Doctors just don't do more than the basics
It might be that you just need to keep on increasing, as it seems like symptoms justify it. I think the most times I've ever increased with no change in freeT3 is six. Although I was close to the top of the range at the time. When close to the bottom it might be a bit of a different story.
My natural path dr outta pocket coat me $200 monthly i just fired for lowering my dose and saying she has no idea whats wrong. Impulsive. Yet took 3k from me. Grrr
A+ blood type. In their theory it’s best to not eat meat and be better to be a vegan and it actually stands true for me I feel best eating just vegetables. I’ve been working on gut for months it seems like everything comes back to Gut. but it just doesn’t work for me. I don’t know why, but I do have the MTHFR gene, so you don’t filter things out properly I Hear?! But my chinese dr said not worry. They dont even know about it fully yet.
A+ blood types are proven to be healthiest as vegans. So
They say and I def felt greatest. Everyone has me feeling dont have enough protein maybe and thats why im flabby. I was never flabby mainly vegan or strict
I try to eat really healthy ... I am not gluten free because it made no difference to me. I eat real butter, cheese, meat, fish and plenty of fresh vegetables. I rarely eat bread because I do not like it. I think I need to eat more fruit because I only eat apples, bananas, grapes and strawberries. I have noticed that since eating seedless grapes my skin looks better and fresher. What is your diet like?
Hey Jo. I used to be on armour, 4 grains actually. As you take Armour, t4 and t3 in it both reduce your tsh, which stimulates secretion of t4 and aids conversion of t4 to t3. This is why tsh gets reduced, your own t4 output as well as it's replaced, your tsh gets lower as your ft4 and ft3. Basically, it seems you need more armour. I was in the same situation as you. Then something has changed and had to reduce to 3 grains years ago while 3 grains previously were not enough. Sometimes 1/4 of a grain can cause a dramatic shift in your levels as you get closer to optimum.
Your leg - i have the same - hypo water retention.
My tsh is lower than yours, 0.06, and I'm still swelling up because I'm still hypo, my ft4 is below mid-range and ft3 is just now coming up to higher in range.
It might be something you need to try, it's up to you. Your tsh is not suppressed at all and out of range low. When did you have you tsh and fts higher and what were they? I mean if you felt much better, then maybe go back to it? It's all trial and error...
I wouldnt say felt better. But had less edema. My freet4 been low low for years. Nmw my tsh has been. T3 usually too half tom23/5. But now inder half and t4 lowest been despite now tah was 0.05 last month now its 0.8. Amd she wanted to have me lower dose. Though i felt ok. No palps or
Anything. But insomnia is bad again. I didnt think tsh that low was poasible to have low t4/t3. I though lower TSH higher t4/t3 got
I have insomnia now, I can't fall asleep, also no palpitations , but I am bloated and have stiff legs and arms from all this weather retention. You may have absorption problems because you are hypo, the only way this will get better if you are optimal. This is why I think I was able to take a lot of armour and then once it all got better I didn't need as much. I am not sure what else I can say, it's all up to you.
Many thyroid sufferers have low stomach acid. How can your body absorb proteins and active B12 if stomach acid is low. Take apple cider vinegar diluted before each meal. Check to see if you have Helicopter Pylori in stomach. Vit B6 and zinc great for increasing HCL.
All ruled out. And i cannot handle vinegar smell. I flip out over smell. So that’s out. If theres 1 smell i cant deal with its that i legit cry still to this day if near me and or I smell it. If not cry i snap. So will pills work?
When i take too much of any kind of thyroid med I retain so much fluid and my leg muscles turn into jello and I get cellulite all over. That was one of my main problems physically when I was hyperthyroid. After I had a thyroid ablation it killed my thyroid and I started taking synthroid my legs will lose the water and they will look so much younger as long as I keep my TSH between 3.00-4.00. I know that seems really high but that’s where my body is happy at. No matter what the t3/t4 levels are. The tsh never usually lies. It’s very accurate. So if you go lower than 2.00 with a tsh than I think sometimes it’s the side effect of the thyroid replacement causing the problems in people not the actual levels if that makes any sense. Hyperthyroidism causes fluid retension in legs and muscle wasting especially in the thighs and upper arms. And when that happens you get the bumpy appearance that you are seeing. Trust what I’m saying. I lived 15 years with hyperthyroidism and 10 with hypothyroidism.
Ty. So how much meat? Whats wrong with eggs lentils and chickpeas nbeans? All started when i started eating organic chicken and turkey again. Whether connection or not not sure
Thank you so much so by the look of my lab do you think maybe cut the thyroid medicine out? It’s crazy you say this every time I increased my thyroid medicine my thighs get some more swollen and harder to get the fluid out and my liver just takes a hit I stop at all my thyroid and everything feels better but my thyroid levels get worse and I do get tired. My hands turn yellow on thyroid medication my liver gets elevated they say it’s normal… But off meds I getting none of this it’s crazy because my Chinese doctor said my thyroid should be around three if he would work to get me there if I went his way I’m scared to death obviously to be hypo. But being 4-8 tsh for 2-3 yrs i was bigger n full fluid too. When that. My t3/t4 were higher, except t4 was always on low end! I just wished could lose the weight. Its awful i eat same as dis for most part. 14 years felt great and was great then 2/3 yrs ago adrenals got awful which im hearing was from under medicated. Or was it more dont need meds? So hard to fig out. Just wanna lose this fluid. How outta blue this happening?
Ultimately I think you need to try either reducing or increasing, you won't know until you do it. Why wouldn't you go with your gut feeling then if you say it's most likely due to armour? Have you ever tried taking t4 only? Also, if you are hesitating and want to be sure, go for cholesterol blood test and sex hormones binding globulin shbg - if cholesterol is high, you are not overmedicated, if shbg is elevated - you may have too much armour. This normally helps me to understand and I do have high cholesterol, I'm cold, edema etc .
Ive never tried t4 only since a kid. Hmmm crazy cause i say guts i dont need meds but need healing. Only issue have is hairloss and edema weightgain. Now dry also
Low thyroid levels cause lower calcitonin, which disrupts bone modeling, so it can cause brittle bones studies have shown low FT3 causes loss of muscle tone. Maybe, because your dose wasn't optimal for so long, it caused these disruptions. They are also doing studies that show, potentially, that T2 has an affect on adipose tissue (fat) and, again, since you weren't getting as much, may have contributed. These are the main reasons I'm thankful I've been on Armour for 22 years. I just wish I had known this sooner, since my Dr has kept my T3 low because of her belief that it would prevent osteoporosis.
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If there is anything unusual going on you will almost certainly have to self medicate or find a naturopath who can prescribe. Doctors just don't do more than the basics 
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