Low carb diets...???: I really need to find out... - Thyroid UK

Thyroid UK

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Low carb diets...???

66 Replies

I really need to find out more about this.

A couple of days ago, I got my lab results back and they are clearly indicative of insulin resistance: fasting glucose 110 mg/dL (ref 70-105) and fasting insulin 18 uU/mL (ref 2.6-24.9; should be <5 according to several low carb forums I've visited).

Anyway, I thought that going low carb could not hurt, so I just decided to eat leafy vegetables to get some carbs, and then just proteins and healthful fats. After all, I've read so many books and articles swearing by the wonders of low carb diets and how all of a sudden they saw the light and all that...

But, four days in I'm suffering terribly. Some LC advocates say you need to suffer only to end up feeling so much better when your body learns to burn fat as fuel and not carbs, but I am wondering when is that day is going to come...if ever??!!

I don't want to end up on diabetes meds such as Metformin, but realise I need to do something about my glucose and insulin levels if I don't want to end up with full-blown diabetes 2. I don't know if the cause is hypoT (Hashi's), cortisol, sex hormones, diet, or a any combination thereof, but I would like to know if anyone else has felt worse when going lc...? If so, is that normal and to be expected as lc experts claim ("Carb detox"), or is it a sign I'm eating too few carbs for my needs...but, then again, does someone with insulin resistance need carbs at all...?!

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66 Replies
Nanaedake profile image
Nanaedake

The websites for diabetes have excellent dietary advice.

Lalatoot profile image
Lalatoot

Hypos need carbs!

Fruitandnutcase profile image
Fruitandnutcase

I became T2 as a result of taking steroids for rheumatoid arthritis. I bought a really good book called Reverse you it T2 Diabetes written by a Dr David Cavan plus a blood sugar meter - I mean how can your u I prove improved our blood sugar levels f you don’t know what yours are on a day to day or day or even a meal by meal basis?

By doing what the book said I was able to work out the foods that spiked my blood sugar and eliminate them from my diet.

I found the DietDoctor.com website very helpful - they offer a weekly online course with lots of helpful information about being LC, HF I didn’t have any problems at all with starting LCHF, never felt weak or ill or hungry. I would recommend it to anyone wanting to take control of their blood sugar levels.

Jazzw profile image
Jazzw

“Keto flu” by the sound of it. The first time you go low carb is the worst—it never seems to be as bad again (you’ll gather I’ve done Keto on and off for years). You should be through the worst of it in another day—if you can hang on that long. Low salt can cause issues—some on low carb sites swear by having a cup of oxo in boiling water (or similar).

Diet Doctor is excellent for advice if you haven’t found it already.

in reply to Jazzw

That is a brilliant website.

JMN2017 profile image
JMN2017

Hi Hidden

Yes, it sounds like 'carb flu', which you will get over very soon. However, to avoid it, I would've suggested reducing the carbs a bit more gradually, so your body doesn't react and feel like you've experienced

If you really feel rotten still, then have some carbs and then reduce them a bit more slowly. Having said that, you'll possibly be feeling a bit better by now so it's up to you re taking small quantity of carbs

Well done for cutting out the carbs - you should notice a big difference in your glucose levels :)

NWA6 profile image
NWA6

Sounds like low carb flu! It can’t be awful!! When you take out those sugars your body and mind have a paddy! 😂 5-7 days should be all it takes. I know it’s tough but if you’ve done it for a few days now just keep going! Low car. Is great for T2 and you may be able to reinstate some level of higher carb in the future, just do it slowly to find your limit and if you do then it’s best done after strenuous exercise (the type where you got your heart rate elevated and a bit of a sweat on)

humanbean profile image
humanbean

I would agree with Jazzw , it sounds like you are suffering from keto flu.

This is what I've used for it :

tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/p...

I use a heaped teaspoonful in a mug of boiling water, stir very well then drink it. Cool it down with some cold water after stirring if you need to. :)

One thing to be aware of is that it is essential to eat enough when on a low carb or keto diet, particularly enough fat. If you don't eat enough fat, and don't eat sufficient protein, and you have cut your carbs a lot you will be starving.

I would recommend the Diet Doctor website as well. Here is their article on keto flu :

dietdoctor.com/low-carb/ket...

in reply to humanbean

Why would Marigold stock powder help with keto flu?

Soy (although apparently not fermented soy) blocks thyroid receptors, so that wouldn't be helpful if hypothyroid.

humanbean profile image
humanbean in reply to

Being a stock it has quite a lot of salt in it. And salt is something that people lose when they first go on a keto diet. People could just as easily drink salt in plain water. But taking it in stock makes it more palatable.

Low salt makes people feel awful.

in reply to humanbean

Salt for sodium & a banana or coconut water for potassium.

Collywobbles64 profile image
Collywobbles64 in reply to

Make sure you use Himalyan Salt or Celtic sea salt and not ordinary table salt.

in reply to Collywobbles64

How about Alp Salt (Alpensalz?)

Collywobbles64 profile image
Collywobbles64 in reply to

I don’t know about that salt. If it’s natural with all it’s minerals it should be ok. It’s table salt that has undergone processing and is pure sodium that is no good.

in reply to Collywobbles64

It's this one:

bad-reichenhaller.de/en/pro...

vocalEK profile image
vocalEK in reply to Collywobbles64

In the U.S., they add iodine to table salt. There is a huge area around the Great Lakes where there is very little iodine in the soil. Thus people who were eating mostly locally grown vegetables were getting goiters. This huge area is also called the Goiter Belt. Guess where I grew up. Yup, Goiter Belt. Guess what I stopped eating when pregnant with my first child. Yup, salt. (Never had a goiter, though.) Got used to cooking without salt and for decades I didn't even put salt on fried eggs. Many things taste overly salty to me, such as mayonnaise. In 2014 I was hospitalized. They took blood every day. Every other day they would come in and tell me I was low on sodium. Then they would take away my water pitcher. I guess that was easier on them than giving me some salt. But my mouth became so dry that I couldn't eat because I wasn't generating enough saliva to swallow. Finally (and ironically if you ask me) they had to give me Ensure (a liquid diet).

Ruthi profile image
Ruthi

I went keto 3 years ago now. I do feel very much better, lost weight, and it cured my migraines which was an unexpected bonus!

One of the side effects of keto is that you tend to lose electrolytes much faster than when eating carbs and these need to be replaced. The recommended dosage is

400mcg elemental magnesium (from malate or glycinate ideally)

About 1.5 tsp of added salt (I just add generously to food and chuck ha quarter teaspoon in with loads of water to wash down)

About a quarter tsp of Lo Salt daily.

Just taking some salt should make you feel heaps better almost instantly.

There are keto calculators online to help you work out what you need. And I recommend joining a support group for advice on supplies. I admin one on facebook called Keto UK Advice and Support.

For the last year I've been nearer paleo than keto, which gives me a bit more variety but my headaches are creeping back so I'll be full keto again when I get home from a family visit. It's easy once you know what you are doing!

vocalEK profile image
vocalEK in reply to Ruthi

I've been low-carbing for 2-1/2 years. Have gone from 220 to 178 lbs. Did not know about the salt angle. Thanks for that info.

Gymgirl profile image
Gymgirl

This guy talks a lot about insulin resistance.....

youtu.be/wBsnk2PtPeo

Dr Michael Mosley was the doctor who devised the 5/2 diet... he did a new one recently which I can't recall how it works, but it's all geared towards reversing T2 diabetes. He was pre-diabetic and has reversed it with the 5/2.

Good luck xx

janey1234 profile image
janey1234 in reply to Gymgirl

You're right...he now has 3 phases. The FAST800 where you eat 800 calories for a number of weeks, then move to 5:2 (5 days eating a healthy Mediterranean diet without counting calories & 2 days calorie counting up to 800) and then finally eating a healthy med' diet full time.

His books aren't just about weight loss, it's about the effect of foods on our whole body including the brain. Highly recommend his FAST800 & BLOOD SUGAR books (plus recipe books) which explain everything in a really easy-to-read and understand format. I personally am 4 weeks in and it's totally opened my eyes 🙂

McPammy profile image
McPammy in reply to Gymgirl

I’ve just watched this very enlightening video. The bit that struck me was that my friend has noticed over the past few years that she has skin tags appearing on her trunk area and is puzzled by them. I’ve just sent her this video to watch. I hope this can help her realise that she’s becoming insulin resistant. She has loads of skin tags now. Maybe if she improves her diet it will help her skin tags and prevent possible diabetes in the future. Her cholesterol is very high too. And she has a poor diet of too many sweet things.

A reply to everyone:

Yes, I'm familiar with Dietdoctor, one of Sweden's great exports alongside ABBA and IKEA:-)

One of his disciples, a former hardline low carber, recently published a book called "Let beans change your life". He did that after becoming convinced beans are not like other carbs and can actually lower blood sugar levels from diabetic to normal and help people lose weight and keep it off (and this is someone who used to live on steaks and butter and not eat any carbs at all after being diagnosed with diabetes and being able to go off meds on lc).

His coauthors both lost a lot of weight adding beans to their lc lifestyle. One of them has diabetes 1 which made him blind at a young age but, after adding beans, he is able to control his blood sugar with very little insulin. His girlfriend (who, like me, has insulin resistance) lost about 20 kg on lc then hit a weight loss plateau. When she added beans she lost another 40 kg effortlessly and to date has literally halved her weight. The other coauthor has noticed a remarkable decline in menopausal symptoms after adding beans and fermented vegetables (sauerkraut etc) to her diet.

That sounded encouraging to me as I love beans and chickpeas and find them very filling compared to pasta and rice. It sounded like a great idea to replace those foods with beans. So I followed their advice and added 200 ml of beans daily (100 with lunch and 100 with dinner). I don't know if that was not long enough, but my latest labs are disastrous and higher than ever: fasting insulin 18.0 uU/mL (ref 2.6-24.9; should be <5 to be optimal) and fasting blood glucose 110 mg/dL (70-105). Last year, they came back at 13.4 and 90 respectively.

My current problems (much worse than before I was diagnosed with Hashimoto's 19 years ago) started after I was treated with high doses of steroids (IV and pills) for six weeks after being diagnosed with autoimmune encephalitis. One doctor said when told of how much I had been taking: "But those are bodybuilding doses! No wonder you've gained weight!"

Sure, but I had no choice if I wanted to rid myself of symptoms that initially led doctors to misdiagnose me with epilepsy and put me on anti-epileptic drugs with horrible side effects and no benefit whatsoever. Since the steroid treatment, all neurological symptoms are gone, and I'm off AEDs, but it seems the steroids messed me up pretty baldy...my BG and insulin levels are in the pre-diabetic range, I've put on almost 30 kg in the past twelve month (the steroid treatment took place in Sept '18), and I feel hyper on any dose of NDT but display a strange mixture of hyper and hypo symptoms: increased sweating, nervousness, moodiness, fatigue, increased sensitive to sound, weight gain, high blood pressure (causing my GP to put me on meds), racing heart, increased hunger...some of those you'd expect to see in someone who's hyper, others in a hypo person. I suspect cortisol is somehow the culprit (or at least one of the culprits) and am currently waiting for the results of my diurnal saliva test.

It's very disappointing when you've been well for years on a given drug (in my case, NDT), only to see a strange host of symptoms appear with no apparent connection. I hope my hormone doctor whom I'll be seeing in three weeks will be able to, because conventional doctors seem to see no connection between thyroid, adrenal, and sex hormones. To them, you are hyper if your TSH is below range, period.

As a desperate measure, I've gone off NDT and back on T4 only to see if that helps with the most bothersome hyper symptoms. If low cortisol is the problem, then that would explain why I seem unable to handle T3. I am not sure how high cortisol affects thyroid hormone. All I know is that I was diagnosed with adrenal fatigue when I first went to see my hormone doctor eight years ago (based on a 24 h urine analysis), so if I currently have high cortisol, then my once tired adrenal glands must have gone into overdrive after I was put on high doses of glucocorticoids. Not sure how likely that is to happen, though...

Somehow, it feels like I'm back to square one, and I am feeling more and more like a beginner when it comes to hormonal imbalances...!

Angel_of_the_North profile image
Angel_of_the_North in reply to

There are quite a lot of carbs in legumes, but my friend who reversed his type 2 ate a lot of lentils, so there's probably something in that.

Nico101 profile image
Nico101 in reply to

High dose steroid treatments can take 2 years to recover from. They're an absolute nightmare and mess up your adrenals a lot - they mess up a lot of things, actually.

Once you know your cortisol levels you can take adaptogens or Adrenavive to help encourage cortisol production. Or something like Holy Basil if it's too high when it should be lower.

But don't blame yourself; it is likely the steroids that messed you up.

I'm alarmed that a medical professional doesn't know the difference between anabolic steroids (the ones bodybuilders take) and glucocorticoids. There are many types of steroids - vitamin D is one - but a doctor ought to know the difference for christ's sake!

Also, adrenals and thyroid work together - you mess with one and it can affect the other. You may have to readjust thyroid meds once you start dealing with your adrenals. If your thyroid has been negatively affected, then your high BP could be as a result of that.

in reply to Nico101

Thank you so much for this, Nico101, it's both very informative and reassuring at the same time!!!

I have no idea how adrenal glands react that were already fatigued when subjected to higher doses of glucocorticoids...I have read that, in a healthy person, the adrenal glands should resume their normal function pretty soon after going off pred but, then again, maybe mine were already weakened to begin with...which could be a possible explanation if I develop permanent problems after short-term use only, whereas long-term use of steroids is most often said to be problematic, whereas short-term use isn't...

Even if there is no such thing as "T3 pooling", one thing is certain: I seem to have developed an oversensitivity to T3 since going off steroids. I have tried to lower my NDT dose to no avail...I'm now back on T4 only temporarily until I sort things out but, already after a day and a half without T3 I am feeling somewhat better, not sweating as profusely and I can no longer feel my heart race. So, whatever the reason(s), I think I'm better off staying away from T3 right now.

I have read that, if there is too little cortisol, the body will make cortisol out of progesterone. That could explain why my most recent progesterone labs came back very low, although I'm on HRT. Using an online calculator, I found out my E/P ratio is 27, and anything below 100 is indicative of estrogen dominance. I am wondering if my very low progesterone levels mean my body has been using progesterone to make cortisol...?

As for doctors's ignorance, it never ceases to amaze me...many doctors seem to know less than their patients which is frightening!!!

in reply to Nico101

Speaking of ignorant doctors: my GP had never heard of T3 and T4. She said all she's ever tested is the TSH...She had to look them up, then said she sees no reason to test them as the TSH, in her words "tells me everything I need to know"...I am very relieved she is not responsible for my thyroid treatment...!

Nico101 profile image
Nico101 in reply to

I think if you look around this forum you'll find that is what most people's Drs tell them. I had my own tests done and informed my GP I had Hashi's.

in reply to

Ha! Have you been tested for gluten and grain intolerance as this is linked to Hashimotos. Histamine flares can be present even if you are not intolerant to gluten. You might find you have food intolerance to dairy and eggs as well as grain. Some interesting articles can be found on suzycohen.com who is a pharmacist and explains in detail how the histamine flares occur and how they might be controlled so your immune system and gut are not damaged.

in reply to

Thanks for the link! No, I have not been tested for any food intolerance.

annnsandell profile image
annnsandell

I must admit that I tied low carb diet and ended up with bad diarrhea and terrible stomach pain. You might think about why you might be insulin resistant or prediabetic. I looked at diabetic diet advice and found apart from one piece of cake a week, my diet was better than they recommended although, I now look at what type of bread etc. and rarely eat potatoes. I never ate very much and always had trouble losing any weight. Do you have lots of exercise, I do. I don't think my doctor believed it wasn't poor diet or a lack of exercise until she listened and did some tests. They found I had Polycystic ovaries and that mucks up your insulin/sugar levels. A Testosterone test helped to prove the condition but it will depend on your age. Added to which I have never been convinced that thyroid meds make up for changes in metabolism. No easy answers though sorry.

in reply to annnsandell

There are no easy answers I'm afraid...:-(

What puzzles me is that I managed to lose almost 30 kg effortlessly a few years ago, after adding 500 mg of berberine to my main meals. That was after being diagnosed with insulin resistance, and reading an article about how berberine had proven to be as effective as metformin in several studies. And it proved really effective for me.

I kept my new, lower weight for three and a half years by just eating and exercising normally. It was only after I was put on high doses of cortisone that I started to gain weight again, and now I seem unable to lose it. It's like the cortisone somehow messed me up, but I cannot quite figure out how...hopefully, my doctor will be able to provide some insights.

I have been reading a lot about PCOS after being told last year I had several ovarian cysts (right before my 50th birthday). I had read about the supplement Hyponidd and how many PCOS sufferers saw great improvement on it. I found out that the difference between ovarian cysts in general and PCOS is that, when you have the latter, you have high levels of androgens. My testosterone levels are low, and especially my bioavailable testosterone is very low, according to recent labs, so I don't think that PCOS is a likely diagnosis in my case.

I have been exercising rigorously lately (jogging, walking, aerobics) but have read that can backfire and cause cortisol levels to rise, so I have cut back and now only take daily walks and go to an aerobics class twice a week. It seems jogging can be particularly stressful to the body...

in reply to

I could add that I have been overweight since my teens. I started on a diet for the first time when I was 15, and I have been yo-yo dieting for most of my adult life since. Diagnosed with Hashimoto's at age 31.

Looking back, I realise that although I ate what my mother considered "a healthy diet", it consisted of lots of low-fat foods (margarine, low-fat milk and cheese) and lots of carbs. We had rice or potatoes with every main meal and I remember that, back in the 1970s, the nutritional advice provided by doctors was to limit egg consumption to one egg a week and my mother abided by that. So, looking back, I would say my daily diet back then consisted of 60-70% carbs, a little protein, and very little fat (hardly any of it saturated).

Nico101 profile image
Nico101 in reply to

If you've had a diet like that for your formative years and yo-yo dieted for the rest of your life, it is likely that you have badly messed up your gut biome and it needs resetting. I'd read up on resetting the gut biome and you can find out if you have any carb-related triggers like candida, or parasites, SIBO, low stomach acid - that kind of thing. Everything starts with the gut after all.

in reply to Nico101

True! I will look into the things you suggest.

sue_b profile image
sue_b in reply to

As Nico says, I have done a microbiome reset. I didn't run any tests before hand but a couple of years later when I did a stool analysis my microbiome was in pretty good shape.

Great book, The Microbiome diet ( R kellman) tells you about all the different supplements you need to take to go . The only thing that was difficult was sourcing the right combo of supplements, I had no major adverse effects.

A friend of mine reversed his type 2 diabetes by going low carb (not keto). He said it was hard to begin with as he'd been eating a lot of pasta and other processed carbs. He said try moderate carbs to start with (around 100g rather than 30) with mostly veg rather than fruit (which is what you were doing).

in reply to Angel_of_the_North

Yes, that sounds wise as I believe that going keto can be too much for some of us...!

jjf255 profile image
jjf255

I agree with all the other comments that you are going through Keto Flu. I have been low carb (keto) for years. You must drink a LOT of water because initially that is what you are losing ...water weight. This also causes a drop in potassium and magnesium...so you need to supplement. Adding more GOOD fat like avocados, avocado oil, olive oil, salmon , coconut oil is also helpful. Don't go crazy with the protein. Too much protein can keep you from getting into ketosis. Adding a little extra sodium at this point can help get over that draggy feeling. You can always drop back on the sodium as you feel better.

humanbean profile image
humanbean

Your problems with gaining lots of weight and feeling hyper despite being hypo are probably caused by the high doses of steroids you were given, not by the thyroid treatment you are using. In effect, taking lots of steroids for any reason will create a condition similar to Cushing's Disease if the doses are high enough.

Are you still taking steroids? I'm assuming you are? Unfortunately, if you were on high doses of steroids for the autoimmune encephalitis it may have permanently shut down your adrenals and permanent steroid treatment may be your only choice. (So I'm not suggesting you stop taking steroids because that would be suicidal in someone whose adrenal glands are not functioning!!!)The thyroid may be able to restart (to a limited degree) if it has been suppressed in someone with hypothyroidism, the adrenal glands don't restart once stopped from doing their job.

I have naturally produced high cortisol, although it isn't high enough to be diagnosed as Cushing's. As a result I have always found it hard to tolerate thyroid meds because I feel hyper on tiny doses.

in reply to humanbean

Thank you so much for this valuable input!

No, I am not on any steroids or adrenal

support ATM as I am waiting for cortisol saliva results.

humanbean profile image
humanbean in reply to

Well, it will be interesting to see if six weeks of steroid treatment has had a permanent affect on your adrenal glands. Let's hope not. You might find this link of interest :

betterhealth.vic.gov.au/hea...

in reply to humanbean

Thank you a lot, HumanBean, really interesting and helpful!

I will post my cortisol saliva results on the forum as soon as I get them.

in reply to humanbean

So, you mean you produced a lot of cortisol without any drugs or supplements? Interesting. That is not at all how it was for me. I was diagnosed with adrenal fatigue about ten years after being diagnosed with Hashimoto's, and never had any signs or symptoms of high cortisol until I was treated with high doses of steroids last year. That's interesting to know, thank you, because my recent problems to handle any amount of T3 (from NDT) started AFTER I was put on high doses of steroids...another piece of the puzzle, maybe/hopefully.

Thanks again for your input!

humanbean profile image
humanbean in reply to

Yes, I produce more cortisol than necessary without any artificial drugs. I take an adaptogen (Holy Basil) most nights which lowers my cortisol enough to allow me to sleep. I started off at a high dose (8 capsules) and then slowly reduced over the course of several months. I currently take 2 capsules per night, and can't reduce it further than that without getting symptoms I attribute to high cortisol.

I think that my high cortisol is caused by chronic pain.

in reply to humanbean

But you have not been diagnosed with Cushing’s syndrome...? Have doctors offered any help at all?!

humanbean profile image
humanbean in reply to

I've never sought a diagnosis. I still have a circadian rhythm to my cortisol output. In Cushing's that rhythm is lost and people have very high levels of cortisol 24 hours a day.

See this graph :

static1.1.sqspcdn.com/stati...

in reply to humanbean

OK, that explains it. I have been reading about Cushing's, but cannot find any info about developing it as a result of taking steroids. If anything, steroids at high enough doses will suppress the adrenals, not overstimulate them...so I doubt they would go into overdrive after being suppressed...do you agree?

humanbean profile image
humanbean in reply to

1) People don't develop Cushing's as a result of taking steroids.

2) Taking steroids, if the dose was high enough, could mimic Cushing's.

3) Taking steroids, if the dose was high enough and went on long enough, would suppress the patient's own cortisol output. (Please note - I couldn't define the phrases "high enough" and "long enough".)

3) When steroids are stopped, patients should be allowed to stop slowly so the patient is weaned off and their own adrenal output is given the chance to recover (if possible).

4) If steroids are stopped abruptly, or the patient is weaned off too quickly, they may develop signs and symptoms of low adrenal output or adrenal insufficiency.

5) A patient who has been on high dose steroids for long enough to reduce or suppress their own cortisol production permanently will probably need steroids to be prescribed for life.

in reply to humanbean

Thanks, that's very helpful and confirms what I always believed; that is, that you don't develop Cushing's from using steroids.

I did go from 1 g prednisolone IV for five days to 100 mg pills overnight, and that was quite a shock to the body. From there, I decreased it gradually, from 100 to 80, from 80 to 60 and so on every week until I had weaned off it completely.

I suspect my own adrenals have been at least partly suppressed for years, ever since I was put on 4 mg of Medrol daily for adrenal fatigue in 2011. I stayed on it for four years but never really felt the same after weaning off it (I did so because I was afraid of long-term side effects). So my theory is that my adrenal glands were already struggling when I was put on high doses (certainly suppressive) of pred last year. That may very well have knocked them out. I am not on steroids ATM and still alive, so they must be able to produce some cortisol...but, apparently, not enough for complete symptom-relief. I also believe that's the reason I don't seem to handle T3 anymore, after doing great on NDT for years.

I'm fortunate to have an alternative doctor who treats adrenal fatigue. Most doctors, I believe, would only prescribe steroids to someone with Addison's disease. I know many conventional doctors don't believe adrenal fatigue exists so won't treat it.

humanbean profile image
humanbean in reply to

Have you ever seen this link?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseud...

Edit : It isn't a very good link - it doesn't mention exogenous steroids as a cause of pseudo-Cushing's, although I'm sure it used to.)

And for information on tests performed by endocrinology departments you should bookmark this link to the Endocrine Bible :

imperialendo.com/for-doctor...

(Personally I prefer the pdf version.)

in reply to humanbean

Great, I cannot thank you enough for all your help with this!

I assume that drug-induced "false Cushing's syndrom" would go away once you go off steroids, just like symptoms caused by drug-induced hyperthyroidism will disappear when the thyroid hormone is reduced or stopped?

humanbean profile image
humanbean in reply to

That would be my understanding of the situation.

Don't forget that I have no medical training!

in reply to humanbean

I know, but you do seem more knowledgeable than many doctors I've come across:-)

humanbean profile image
humanbean in reply to

I should add that the thyroid will bounce back far more easily and completely than the adrenals will from the over supply of the relevant hormones. The adrenals may not recover at all in the worst case scenario.

in reply to humanbean

Yes, I have noticed that the thyroid somehow always seems to kick back into action.

in reply to humanbean

In this context, I've been wondering: is HC a better option than pred or Medrol? My doctor tends to favour Medrol as it's longer-acting so can be taken once daily, plus she says it does not cause water retention the way HC tends to...but can you say that HC is no better or safer than pred or Medrol, just like NDT is not better or safer than synthetic thyroid meds...? Or should HC be one's first choice, as it's multi dosed so mimics normal circadian rhythm? All, as far as I know, tend to shut the adrenal glands down, and I'm not sure pred or Medrol do that more than HC?

humanbean profile image
humanbean in reply to

When it comes to prescription meds for adrenal problems of any kind I can't help at all, sorry. I simply don't have the knowledge.

in reply to humanbean

No, I understand that! Sorry, my previous post was not clear, my question was not specifically intended for you but anyone with knowledge about this!

However, I just stumbled upon this article which makes me less afraid of taking synthetic meds long-term or permanently (if it turns out I need adrenal support):

scielo.br/scielo.php?script...

sue_b profile image
sue_b in reply to humanbean

Hi humanbean, I also have naturally high cortisol but not Cushings. It follows the correct diurnal variation but is just high. Would you mind passing on any insights you have about it? I have hashi's too. Thank you.

humanbean profile image
humanbean in reply to sue_b

I don't really have any major insights into naturally high cortisol levels (or unhealthy cortisol levels not otherwise caused by obvious disease or steroid treatment).

They are probably caused by stress. However, when most people think of stress they think of having to deal with a bullying boss or a child who won't sleep and cries every night for hours or something like that, but often stress is blamed exclusively on the patient's mental health, as if the patient is to blame for their own situation.

But stress can be caused by loads of things, some of which are under our own control, some of which we can influence and some things we can do nothing about. Stress can be situational, emotional, psychological, physiological or physical.

1) Doing too much or too little exercise.

2) Eating a poor diet or eating too little/too much food

3) Nutrient deficiencies and/or being malnourished

4) Depression

5) Addiction

6) Eating disorders

7) Severe kidney or liver disease

8) Inadequately or wrongly treated hypothyroidism and hyperthyroidism

9) Recent surgery, illness, injury or infection

10) High oestrogen levels

11) Being overweight

12) Grieving

13) Abuse of any kind

14) Pregnancy

15) Using hormonal birth control.

16) Poor sleep quality, too much sleep and too little sleep

I got most of the above from this link :

draxe.com/health/endocrine-...

but I added to and edited the list a bit. I'd score the article as a 7 out of 10. :)

As for ways we can help ourselves, well, we should be doing what we can to fix the above issues if possible.

1) Optimise nutrients

2) Eat enough, and make sure it contains natural fats and enough protein. Cut down on nutritionally empty foods like sweets and cakes. Replace the calories you cut from your diet with healthy food.

3) Do some exercise - swimming, yoga, walking, but don't overdo it.

4) Try to optimise thyroid treatments - unfortunately we are often at the mercy of doctors.

5) Try to get sufficient sleep - but this advice has always driven me nuts. I've had life long insomnia, and being told I should get plenty of sleep makes me want to become violent. I want to scream "HOW?"

You could try various adaptogens. They have a reputation for "balancing cortisol" which, in my opinion, is meaningless. In most people, adaptogens lower cortisol.

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

drhealthbenefits.com/herbal...

sue_b profile image
sue_b in reply to humanbean

Wow, that's pretty extensive! Thanks :-)

FancyPants54 profile image
FancyPants54

Shudder! I literally broke myself by going low carb. People call it keto flu and say you have to get through it. I say run a mile and eat a balanced diet. I felt like I had flu for at least 3 weeks. I never lost a pound more in weight. I developed signs of hypothyroidism and not long after I lost all my energy. I’ve been ill for 8 years now and gained 5 stone.

Although I am currently eating less refined carbs than I used to do, I will never go “low carb” again.

I am currently using a diabetic medication to help overcome insulin resistance and to improve leptin sensitivity so I know when I have had enough to eat. It’s working very well and I’m eating way less than I used to do and I’m not hungry or craving anything.

I urge you to be careful of the way you feel.

I am aware that my experience will not be a popular view on this page.

humanbean profile image
humanbean in reply to FancyPants54

I'm perfectly happy to accept that going low carb doesn't work for everyone. If people don't get well from keto flu fairly quickly with the usual suggested simple treatments then I don't think they should persist, and should increase their carbs again.

Another option worth considering, for any person worried about it, is to reduce carbs fairly slowly rather than in a "big bang" way, and see if that helps.

Rhsana profile image
Rhsana

Bone Broth should help! Just bought some from these guys - coombefarmorganic.co.uk/?gc...

If you don't make your own you need to make sure the one you do buy is frozen as it needs to be fresh with no preservatives. R x

I have type 2 diabetes and went on a similar diet known as ketogenic. With diabetes you are more likely to have diabetic ketosis so you might feel ill. I was told to drink plenty of water after ketones were found in urine . I had to have some carbs for muscle function so I used vegetables such as seeds carrot and beetroot and some fruit such as apples. As my blood sugar would not go down and was threatened with insulin and had problems with too high uric acid which can give gout metformin is not advised for kidney problems or for liver or IBS, had to change my diet to reduce hidden sugars added in squashes as sweeteners even in O calorie drinks. Many of these sweeteners raise sugar in the liver. I had to remove most grains egg and ordinary milk. Healthcare providers recommend low fat yogurt but all milk yoghurt soft cheeses contain lactose. Removing grains except for oats which are ok for my food intolerance somehow reduced my blood sugar levels. Oats contain betaglucan which lowers blood sugar. As I was overweight I managed to lose weight and arthritis improved. My blood sugar went to normal as well as blood sugar. If I were you I would change your diet to meat fish and vegetables including potato and a little grain that suits you and cut down milk sugar by going lactase free. Eating blue berries or strawberries with a little single cream is a great and a little teaspoon of sugar sprinkled over fruit is ok for some. I use a little demerera sugar with coffee or a sweeter such as canderel . Go back to doctor as diabetic ketosis can make you very ill.

in reply to

Very interesting and informative post, thanks!

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