It's all.about the t3 after all to feel well, yes?
....so therefore upping the t4 will bring down my tsh to a reasonable number, I get this And appreciate now that the t4 may go over range in doing so....
But will the t3 go up because I'm adding more and more t4t4? Is this to be expected in most cases!
It doesn't seem logical to increase an already good level of t4 to over the range?
Has my conversion been not happening because the tsh is too high, that is, strain on the system .
Sorry, I know I'm a pain, but I cannot grasp this
I don't convert well this is a given, can this be just because tsh is high?
( not got the gene as have had the test )
Thanks in advance for patience -
Has anyone else had this please?
......HIGH t4 LOW t3 and HIGH TSH and who have gone on to obtain good t3 levels by adding levo over range ? And mainly felt well again......
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Jeppy
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If you take your FT4 over-range, it's possible that your conversion could get worse, because more T4 will be converted to rT3 than T3.
There are many reasons for poor conversion, but high TSH is not one of them. On the contrary, with good levels of TSH your conversion should be better. So, it's got to be 'something else'.
Have you had your vit D, vit B12, folate and ferritin tested? If so, are you supplementing anything that is sub-optimal?
Are you on a low calorie diet? About how many calories do you think you ingest in a day?
Have you had your cortisol tested?
Do you take beta blockers?
And, so on and so forth. There are so many reasons for poor conversion that the chances of finding what is blocking yours are pretty slim.
So, the only other solution is to obtain T3 and take that.
Normally it is the first port of call. But your labs are unusual. In your case getting your TSH down would mean raising your FT4 well over-range, and that won't help much. It's not that rT3 is a problem, it's just that less T4 will be converted to T3 when FT4 is too high, so it doesn't help. Your TSH is probably high because your FT3 is low. Both T4 and T3 affect the TSH.
Great struggle to loose weight for daughters wedding. 1 and half stones in 9 months stringent monitoring - yes put it back immediately by certainly not excessive eating
But over 2000 a day is above daily requirements for any woman surely ?
I just basically did all I could to support system in every way
Cortisol saliva
10.9. (6-20). Wakening
4.31. (1.5. - 7.6). 12
1.51. (0 - 5 ). 4pm
3.39. (0 - 2). Bed
Although bed was the day before the other 3 day ones!!! (There was a reason for this but told it may not be a good thing to do)
Huge stress situation over last 8 months (screaming in the car situation). So actually thought adrenals ,at not cope at all
I've stopped Adrenavive
It may sound odd decision, I just felt intuitively to give glandular she a rest
I've just bought relax well. L- tryptophan. B3. B6
I'm not sure the holy basil is a good idea, either. It's not that you need to reduce the bedtime level, it's that you need to increase the morning level. If the morning level rises, the bedtime level will fall back into place. By trying to reduce the bedtime level with holy basil, that will possibly have a knock on effect on the morning level.
So, try to always go to bed and get up at the same time. Have a high protein breakfast as soon as you rise. Make sure you get plenty of vit C - are you taking vit C? - and B vits - all of them, not just B3 and B6, get a good B complex with methylcobalamin and methylfolate - and plenty of salt. And, I think an adrenal glandular taken first thing in the morning would be a good thing. If that clashes with the time you take your levo, take your levo at night.
I'm not sure about the tryptophan, and ashwagadha could lower your cortisol even further.
Thankyou had so much conflicting advise. DHEA has gone from a three to two two in a year
Il just do as you say and stick with it The Medichecks Doctor,said it may be Cushing as my bed time cortisol was over as said I did it the night before
But think il echo some of this,to,endo, don't want to overload I didn't give him my cortisol results as think he may have put me in hospital,omg
He knows t Is near top, he seemed approachable when I said I've followed here so knew more than I wanted to know ,,,
Article in our Mail newspaper my daughter sent me, has TUK had it.
Medichecks' doctors are just as rubbish as any other NHS GP. They don't know about these things. Cushing's would be over-range all through the day, not just in the evening. You have typical adrenal fatigue, where the adrenals struggle to make cortisol in the morning, when you most need it, and when it should be at its highest, and only manage the higher amount in the evening, when it should be lowest. Cushing's isn't like that.
....at the beginning of my worst hypo symptoms, 2016, falling asleep weights ion eyelid type, vertigo, slowest brain ciogs over emotional etc st that time my levo was still in good range and tsh 5.3. And t3 still 4.
It's never budged really at all
Levo has stopped me being over emotional mostly, also stopped weights on eyelids and falling asleep so much which I find strange as how can this be and if course tsh has come down a little
Maybe it's the tsh reducing that stops,over emotional
So where was your FT4 when your TSH was 5.3? That's very high for someone on thyroid hormone replacement. Could you post all the results with their ranges, please? That would help. I can't remember them.
Why do you find it strange that levo has stopped some of your symptoms? TSH doesn't make you feel anything. It doesn't cause symptoms whether it goes up or down. It only does what it says on the box.
The doctor said I was borderline and didn't need treating of course bug... the symptoms I'd had for 15 yrs
So really like,you sadly, our systems had a lot,of recovering to make up as it isn't a switch is it?
Years upon years of struggle and strain in fact so the way I view it
I imagine my gland isn't too bad? Will this be right?
Because my numbers aren't worse?
I do believe I'd had degree of hypo since a teenager, I remember feeling the and and brain fog
And of course post natel depression is a mix of all the hormones being in disarray for a while until they sorted themselves out again
Of course at meno there is no returning to your norm, downhill slide which is what happened to me.
Carol,Cauderman tv presenter talks,of her switch going off at meno, this is exactly how I felt
She takes bio identical hormones and back to old self she says
So if, after all this, my switch is still off. I will be marching to Wimpole st too. Money permitting
Her aim is to get nhs to use them instead of horses urine
But first I need to deal with today, if I dig out old results however there is no record of what I took, although I couldn't get past Twentyfive levo until Dr P gave me adrenwvive
I imagine my gland isn't too bad? Will this be right?
Which gland? Why wouldn't it be too bad? I don't follow you, there. Your TSH is too high, and your FT3 too low, and you have symptoms. Sounds pretty bad to me.
Can you post your actual blood test results, including the vitamins and ferritin (including the ranges)?
If all other tests are in the part of the ranges where they should be, to increase your FT3 without increasing your FT4 any further, the easiest route (if you can get it) is to take T3. If you cannot get hold of T3, but can get hold of NDT, then the alternative (which I am currently doing) is to reduce but not stop your thyroxine and add some NDT. In either case, make slow changes and wait at least 6 weeks after changes before repeating blood tests.
In my own case, today is day #100 since I took control of my own medication. I had high cortisol levels (over range) previously, and high RT3 levels (near top of range). By switching to a combination of thyroxine and NDT and tweaking the doses, I have increased my FT3 to top of range, am in the process of getting my FT4 to near top of range, and have reduced my RT3 dramatically. My cortisol has improved, now mostly in range, but not entirely. As for TSH, it's dropping, but although I monitor it, I'm not hugely interested by it. As for how I feel, after an initial period of serious fatigue, I am now feeling better than I have in years. Weight is reducing slowly too. Depending on how things go, I might take my FT3 just slightly over range, to see if that gives me my mojo back, but if I do it will only be slightly over. Having said all that, it would definitely be slightly easier maths to work with just T3 and T4 rather than NDT and T4, but in practice the cycle of getting blood test results and tweaking doses would be much the same either way.
Levothyroxine is T4 only and is an inactive hormone. It's job is to convert to T3 - which is the Active hormone - and it is T3 that is required in our millions of T3 receptor cells in order for our body to function as normal.
Sometimes we cannot convert T4 to sufficient T3 and they used to prescribe a T4/T3 combination which helped relieve symptoms. They no longer prescribe T3. I believe only an endocrinologist can but the cost of T3 has risen by 6,000% over the past year.
However you mean to continue, make sure you are doing it safely, i.e. any increase has to be very gradual and take note of clinical symptoms and the relief of them.
It is very difficult for even endocrinologists to prescribe T3 as the cost is prohibitive now. It all depends on several factors I believe i.e. whether or not the patient can convert T4 to T3 or have 'thyroid hormone resistance'.
I assume if a 'private Endo' is consulted and he gives a prescription for T3, it is the patient who will have to pay.
...yes but I would report somewhere I needed it, not a personal attack as such, but then, maybe TUK have done this
I'm happy to say now that I don't convert much, as level not budged in over two years whatever I have done although I don't feel quite as horizontal so to speak!
I can offer to send over all my bloods, if he replies which I'm hoping he will out of coutesey
On the other hand, how can they refuse if you not converting..?
Is there a good reference to point me too pls, anybody, to back up the required level of FTthree for well being .? So I can have it at the ready if responses say mine is adequate
I mean T4 combination/T3. NDT contains T4, T3, T2, T1 and calcitonin and because it's made from pigs thyroid glands, it is more conducive to the human body than a synthetic. Many feel well with NDT or T4/T3 combination.
I think it is better to consider our clinical symptoms and as they are relieved we feel much better. That's the purpose of replacement thyroid hormones, that we feel well again.
Jeppy, you would have to put up a fresh post asking where to source NDT. Your post will then be closed and if members have information, they'll send you a private message.
I'm not medically qualified but if we change from levo to another thyroid hormone, we take an approx equal dose, i.e. 100mcg of levo for instance is around 1 grain of NDT. We take note of our symptoms and the relief of them and gradually increase by 1/4 tablet every two weeks. If you feel over-stimulated drop back to previous dose and hopefully that's your dose. If symptoms return you increse by 1/4 tablet.
The main factor when taking thyroid hormone replacements is to relieve all of our symptoms and we feel well again i.e. normal health. Also make sure vitamins and minterals are optimal.
NDT works for many and it was also the only replacement that saved lives after 1892. It was prescribed freely up until the 1960's when the introduction of TSH and levothyroxine were introduced and levo has now taken over from doctors knowing clinical symptoms and the patients being given NDT which was slowly increased until symptoms resolved. NDT contains all of the hormones a healthy gland would
Some of us on the forum have had to trial several different methods before finding the right one. Keeping in mind that thousands do o.k. on levo and will not be on this forum.
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