Hi all! Yay, my doctor gave me no problems Yesterday May 1st of changing my meds to Armour due to the horrible side effects of Syn/Levo. I'm starting on the lowest dose of 15mg.
Who else is on Armour?
What brand do you use if not Armour?
What dose did you start on and end up on before your numbers leveled off?
Any side effects, do you like, love or hate it?
If there were side effects what did you end up on that helped?
What dose did you start on and end up on for the meds other than Armour before your numbers leveled off?
I'm in the US so the grain dose will need to be converted so I'll know what that equates to.
By the way, I have another post, Synthroid/Levothyroxine Cough, which I provided my story if interested to see how I ended up here and a wee bit more of an update. I will continue to update that post as the journey continues. Also, I'm asking the questions not to compare myself or what my dosage will or will not be as I recognize we all are different. I'm just curious about other's experiences because there's still much to learn from others.
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ilovecruises
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I haven't tried Armour, but I do like RLC's nature Throid & WP Thyroid. The latter seemed a little stronger, though I haven't tried the newest batch to compare. No negative effects with these aside from me taking too little, changing ratios too fast, or missing my mouth in the morning. I did have a problem with Thyro-Gold (much burning & itchiness) & Thyroid S (slight burning), but lots of other folks are fine on these so it's me.
I started on a 1/4 grain of WP & worked up through a few hiccoughs. It didn't work that well until I stopped eating soy. I feel best on a mix of NDT & T3. 60-70% NDT mid-winter, & reverse ratio, or T3 only for a while in summer. Nutrient co-factors are important as I've lowered my overall dose by 1/6 since I started sublingual then injected B12.
I've no idea what my numbers are as I can't afford the meds & tests, so go by how I feel day to day & week to week with regard to increasing & lowering dose. Temperature, appetite, & how many times a day I need lip balm are my barometers.
We all need different amounts, so there's no straight comparison with how much someone your size & weight etc, will need as it depends on so many other factors. I do find it odd that I take a higher overall dose than someone I know that's half my size again that had a TT, though not that I have fewer symptoms.
I just learned about WP via research but in this group most have spoken/takes Armour or a version thereof. I realize a lot of factors go into the amount, mixtures, combination and such I'm just interested in everyone's experience. I learn from so much just from hearing just as learning about RLC which I'd never heard of until your mention.
If not being too personal why aren't you able to get the testing/bloodwork? And by grain I'm figuring that you're in the UK? What does grain equate to as it relates to the dose in the US?
Using grains as a unit of measurement for NDTs is perfectly common in the US. Your dose of 15 mg is a quarter grain, 30 mg is half a grain, and 60 mg is a grain, and so on. This link provides a useful conversion chart getrealthyroid.com/conversi...
Sometimes the grains were “converted” as 60 milligrams; sometimes as 65 milligrams. Although 65 milligrams is closer to an exact conversion, 60 is simpler number, especially if you need to divide into half and quarter grains!
You see things like Aspirin – often in 300 and 325 milligram tablets. This is a conversion of five grains of aspirin. Some companies used 60 milligrams to the grain – hence 300 milligrams; others use 65 milligrams – hence 325 milligrams.
You can see products that contain 65 milligrams of elemental iron, 65 or 130 milligrams of caffeine, 325 milligrams ferrous sulphate, and such like.
(You really didn't think the dosages were precisely calculated for your health, did you? )
I am hoping/praying that this is the med that is going to do my health well! Thank you for that information.
You can look up the content online. I use Thyroid s for one grain this contains 39mcg of T4 and 9 mcg of T3 most of the NDT's are roughly the same but look it up anyway.
I take 2 grains which is 78mcg of T4 and 18mcg of T3.
Most people on here take more but I find that I am well on the 2 grains, split into 1 x 6am and the other taken at 2.pm well away from food and any drinks other than water. I have no thyroid either it's a learning curve in more ways than one, but keep at it you will get there. I forgot when I started it was half of a grain, increased every two weeks by another half and so on.
Yes, someone linked the conversion guide and I'm taking well below what others seem to be taking. I do take into consideration, however, everyone will take, start and end on different dosages. All of this interesting and a learning process. Thanks for the response.
I've had a thyroidectomy (TT), and found NDT far better for me than the synthetics. But I am also pretty resistant to thyroid hormone, so the synthetics hardly worked for me at all.
In general NDT is one of the treatments people fight to get on to, so you're lucky to be able to get it prescribed.
Yes! I was super excited that she didn't question or give an answer like we can try but...and I went into the conversation by saying I know doctors aren't to keen on prescribing NDT and to my surprise she said okay, lets try it!
Syn/Levo didn't do well for me at ALL!!!! So, I'm really hoping this is the miracle med for me. Thanks for the response.
Ilovecruises...you have no thyroid and your only taking 15mg armour? That's not enough meds. Anyway i'm in US and thyroidless and have been on 2 grains (60mg) of armour since last year and just in case you don't know this each grain only contains 38mcg T4 and 9mcg T3.
Armour is not a miracle thyroid pill I like the ease of just 2 pills Vs. 5 synthyroid/cytomel combo I was on and I have less reactions with Armour although what I use to think was a reaction to synthyroid was in fact undiagnosed hives that I developed after thyroidectomy felt like my skin was on fire (random).
This is so interesting because I had a TT 11 weeks ago and I was getting hives with Synthroid. Did you have Graves or Hashi? I had Graves. I ask because there is research that suggests a relationship between both Graves and Hashis and the development of hives after thyroidectomy. I get them every time my dose of Synthroid is changed! They do go away after a few days once I am on a stable dose. I haven’t seen hives reported beee and so I went in a research binge. If you are interested I will post link. Sending good thoughts your way!
I never realized the connection between hives and thyroid disease until recently when I found myself in the emergency room with a severe hives outbreak and it suddenly dawned on me what I always thought I was having and allergic reaction to every thyroid medication I took and what I actually was having was hives from who know what.
I'm not sure if I had Graves or Hashimoto disease prior to thyroid cancer diagnoises I believe I might have had a combo of graves and Hashi if that is possible, I would flip flop back and forth with weight gain bathroom issues to not being able to keep weight on and horrible aniexty attacks.
I also have autoimmune problems that are unrelated to thyroid....I'm pretty much a medical anomaly...lol.
I feel you! I am a “zebra” in medical terms as I always have weird reactions to medication and until the MDs see it for themselves they don’t believe it! Now of course they do and treat me accordingly but it’s not easy when you present with unexpected and not often seen symptoms. Our endo docs here don’t see hives often so the assumption was I was allergic to something in Synthroid. Who knew?
I can relate, when I told/tell the doctors of my side effects you can just see they're skepticle. Like the cough I have my endo thought because I still had it even though I stopped taking the synthroid it wasn't related. I told her I'd agree if I didn't get this same cough and it didn't go away everytime I take syn or took levo. The problem is the cough is the last of the symptoms to go and tends to linger even after I've stopped the meds.
I'm just glad that didn't deter her from letting me try the Armour.
Yes, and I prefer to start with the lowest dosage and go up. I recognize that I'll have to increase at some point but right now I'm good and as we continue to look at the labs we'll follow suit with the Armour. And if it's not the Armour then we'll move on to another combination of something until the right med(s) are found that I can tolerate.
I'm with Graves post RAI thyroid ablation in 2005, becoming very unwell about 5 years ago.
I was on monotherapy with Levothyroxine before I started self medicating late last year.
My dose on T4 ( Levothryroxine ) was only ever 100 - 125 mcg daily and I was monitored on TSH blood tests.
I felt better on 125 T4 but my TSH would be suppressed and so my dose would be reduced to bring it into the guidelines despite my symptoms becoming worse.
I was offered anti depressants as a consolation prize ??
Just to say a fully functioning, working thyroid would be supporting you daily with approximately 100 T4 plus 10 T3.
Late last year I tried T3 / T4 combo - 100 T4 + 6.25 T3. I felt an immediate benefit, my brain and cognitive functions feeling like a light switch had been turned on, felt energised.
I over medicated myself on 100 T4 + 12.50 T3 - very anxious, not good, very unwell and strange for about 7 days.
Stopped T3 and went back on 100 T4 for about a month.
Early this year I started on NDT - Thyroid S.
I dosed very slowly, starting with 1/4 grain and am now on 1+1/2 daily, taken at 4.00am.
You dose to symptoms, and when you take a smidgeon too much you'll know, and then you reduce back down to the previous dose and that is exactly what I have done and where I now stay.
I'm still a work in progress, as we all are.
T3 /T4 combo did work, I messed up - NDT is " smooth and kinder on my body " -
T3 was a bit like being in the fast lane - on NDT I'm in the middle lane, and am ok here -
I need to increase my stamina and strength but am more " back in the room " - in control and not restricted by the blood test results and Levothyroxine.
I don't think there is any point in comparing one person's dose and QOL with another's.
Just go with how you feel, dose to symptoms, and trust yourself.
In the UK there are very few doctors prescribing, or knowing of NDT and most of us are forced into a DIY regime.
Thank goodness for this amazing site and to the help and support offered by a bunch of amazing people, willing to share knowledge to empower us to help get our health back on track.
I thought it was just in the US that doctors are not willing to prescribe NDT. No, I'm not comparing I just like hearing other's experinces because I gain knowledge, information/insight on how others combine, links to articles etc. I am quite glad in my research I came across this site as it's helped in my going to my doctor armed with informaiton about Armour.
My doc in the US had no problem prescribing although being an Integrative Medicine Clinic probably helped. The endocrinologost I'd had previously was stuck on levothyroxine. So I found the Integrative Clinic. Here in the UK it's a nightmare to get. I finally got a doctor to prescribe it but it's double the cost of what it would be in the US. Pharmacist said it's because of the import expense. In the US my insurance covered it.
Hi AGen! Thank you for the response. I have never heard of an Integrative Clinic. I'll have to look that up. Yes, I am with University Hospitals and Cleveland Clinic. I wasn't satisfied with the endocrine with UH, so I decided to check out one at CC and so far so good. I do, however, have great doctor PCP, GYN and ENT at UH so they're not all bad. I am a big believer of self-advocacy and you move on until you find a doctor that won't treat you like a number.
Yes and thank God my insurance covers the meds at least so far. The only drawback can be when certain meds you're required to get a 90 day supply in order not to pay the regular price, which can be a problem if you don't even know if that med is going to work for you. Like now, I've stopped taking three and am on my fourth.
I'm also in the US and just 2 weeks ago had to switch from Natures Throid to Armour do to the nationwide shortage of Nature. My Doctor kept me on the same dosage 120mg ( and from my research was correct) and the first couple days felt like it was a little stronger which scared me but now I'm feeling pretty good on it almost like it's working better. I've been on this dosage for 10yrs and my levels seemed to be fine but since being on this forum I realize I shouldn't be trusting those numbers. This is a great place for info and I'm learning a lot. Hope this helped!
Absolutely it helps! This site does help too and provides great information. I'm still in the learning stages and you have 10 years in already. I've seen some people who in 10 years or more in are still trying get their levels correct and still having side effects and that is definitly what I'm trying to avoid.
And this is why I asked for other's experiences because you learn so much and then you see others connect on something else like the hives connection from a responder above. It's all so great.
It will be interesting to see what I end up on and if it will have to be a combination of something else. I just hope when increasing I don't have the side effect issue or that I don't actually have to combine anything else. Just being able to stick with one med would be optimal!
Yes my mistake, 38 x 2 = 76 you would never think that I went to a good Grammar School and mathematics was my best subject.
I also had a thyroidectomy two years ago. I started on Levothroxine but didn't feel well. I changed to Naturethroid, 48.75 mg, still having weak muscles and crying a lot. Now I'm taking NP Thyroid, started at ,60 mg. And have added 15 mg., So a total of 75 mg. Now. I'm finally feeling all over better! I like the ndt because they have t3 included naturally. Hope this helps with FYI. I am also in the U.S.
Hi Leftbehind! Thank you for the response. I hadn't read crying as a side effect, that sucks. However, I was balled up in a fetal position crying when I was on the second try of levo 100. I'm glad you feel better.
I'm learning that there are several NDT's available too. Initially, I'd heard of Armour, WP, Naturethroid and Westthroid. You've added NP. What is the actual?
I had half my thyroid out in the US and am on 75 mg of Armour. Love it but can't get it here under insurance. Out of pocket is 275-400.00. I take a 60mg tab and a 15 mg tab. I can order it from the US but would have to pay 194.00 I am currently looking at Thyroid-S
Sorry and kind of ridiculous I'm just seeing this. However, you took the time to respond so I am going to take the time to do so as well.
Funny, thing two years later I'm still trying to get stabilized and yesterday my doctor just changed my dose to 75mg per day. I'm currently having sleep issues which I posted about last night.
Wow! It's ridicoulous how expensive these drugs are. I wish I could get extra and send to you. My 30 day of 15mg was only $13. It also is wasteful when trying to figure out what's best because I have two bottles of levo 125/100 and one bottle of syn 25mcg just sitting in the drawer because they made me super sick.
No problem I've had that happen to me as well on FB (received a message months-yrs later) I am ok now as I've been taking Thyroid-S. Same ingredients and dosages as Armour. My labs have been good.
Great post! Very informative replies that are so helpful. I too am trying to find my optimal dose of Armour. Been at it for just 3 months. Thyroid removed 10 years ago and currently trying to up from 1 1/2 to 1 3/4 grains.
My question is how do you know when you increase if the symptoms will pass as u get use to the increase or if you don’t need an increase?
I’m trying to add 1/4 grain and don’t know if I should push through the insomnia and anxiety symptoms or bail on the increase?
Just wondering how others feel during an increase on NDT.
Hi Knittergirl3! So, first off I've just today been able to log in to this account the was a password issue/blocked email, yadda, yadda, yadda. Well now I can respond, so I've been increasing my Armour and I've not had an issue. I started with 15mg (I'm in the US) and I'm currently on 90mg+30mg daily and still fine. A few weeks ago I was taking 90mg/4 15mg equaling 150 which my endo doc wasn't too happy about because I increased on my own due to the symptoms of muscle aches, tenderness and stiffness, especially in the shoulders and hips, joint pain and stiffness
swelling of the small joints in the hands and feet which I attributed to not having a high enough dosage.
I informed her of the symptoms and may increase and she told me to drop back to 90mg/15mg daily, however, in the process I couldn't get a prescription for the 15mg's due to timing but I could get the 30mgs which is why I'm still just a bit higher than what she wants. I might add that in the time of messaging her and hearing back I'd run out of the Armour so was off a couple/few days and the aches stopped. She did mention;
"Being really undertreated or overtreated with thyroid hormone can cause some people to have arthritis discomfort.
She was really undertreated, and now most recently has self increased the dose to such an extreme that she is frankly hyperthyroid.
Both extremes can make a person feel poorly.
I suggest we try to target the normal level -- and I am trying to do that by now lowering the dose."
Now it could be coincidence that I stopped having the pain or she could be correct that I self medicated a bit much but for now I'm following her lead again. Oh and I've not had the insomnia of anxiety.
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