I am somewhat of a fanatic about the use of free amino acids and amino acid derivatives, because those substances have helped me in 3 major ways: muscle/connective tissue repair, immune system improvement, sleep quality. Recently, I came across this article from Izabella Wentz:
Researching NAC, I've found it is a general-purpose way of improving health and battling disease, because it replenishes the body's supply of antioxidant glutathione. What I would like to know is: who here has used NAC, what dose have you used, and what has it done for you (WRT thyroid, or anything else)?
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Eddie83
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Hi greygoose I hope I'm not hijacking this post but I've recently had trouble with my breathing. Shortness of breath particularly at night. Have thought it was stress related but having read this, is it common with Hashimotos? I will buy some NAC. Thank you
Breathing problems, shortness of breath, can be due to so many things. It's a question of elimination. Just being hypo can cause it. So can low iron/ferritin. I appear to have ruled out everything but I still have it. So, NAC was a last resort.
What kind of reaction, to alcohol, do you have? I have hashimoto's hypo & I have reactions to alcohol, but not all the time. Unsure why it's hit or miss.
I was “prescribed” it when I was first hypothyroid and getting a lot of parasthesia and numbness. And apparently it can help with parasthesia. It didn’t work with me but being properly medicated (ie on thyroid meds) did. Interestingly I became hypo again recently but didn’t get the parasthesia but bodies are strange.
After I looked up "parasthesia", I realized that's the name for what I experienced during and after chemotherapy. At first I thought it was an allergic reaction (it felt like itching all over my body, moving around). Then it occurred to me that it might be a form of pain from nerve damage, often a side effect of chemo. My oncologist recommended I talk to my neurologist about it. He prescribed gabapentin, which I continue to take 3 times a day.
PS I also was prescribed Gabapentin 300mg three times a day just 2 weeks ago. I already feel it's helping my nerve pain AND my mood. Happy it's helping you also.
I hope you are doing well coping with cancer. It is hard. I had larynx cancer in 1984 and uterine cancer in 1999-both with surgery and radiation. I'll be 75 in March and still trucking along. 😊
Thank you. Yes, I am doing well. Early in 2014, I came down with pneumonia, and they saw something on the X-ray that made the doctor order up a CT scan. On that, they saw a small nodule in my left lung. The biopsy determined the nodule was non-small cell Squamous cell cancer. I then had surgery to remove the lower lobe of my left lung. While removing the lobe, the surgeon found adhesions between the two lobes. He cut these out and, like all tissue removed during surgery, sent them to the lab. These were found to be a second type of cancer, adenocarcenoma. I would have been all done with treatment had he not found the second type, and it was too late to make sure surgically that they got it all. I was referred to an oncologist for chemotherapy. Since completing treatment, all my CT scans have come up NED (No Evidence of Disease). I had a run of good luck -- good luck that I had pneumonia, because that's how I was diagnosed at Stage 1. Lung Cancer is so deadly because most cases are not diagnosed until Stage 4. Good luck that the surgeon found those adhesions when he did. FWIW, I had quit smoking 5 years before. I was only able to do so by switching to vaping. I was 63 then. I am 73 now.
You have an amazing story. I would just offer a slightly different perspective based on our common experience.
Instead of luck I like to think the Universe was watching out for us. Both of my cancers were picked up in entirely accidental ways as were yours.
My larynx cancer was picked up by an Ear Nose and Throat surgeon I was assigned to work with one day in the O.R. I normally never worked with this surgeon and didn't particularly like ENT cases.
But several nurses were out sick with flu and we were all reassigned. I was bitching and moaning about having to do lots of little short cases (lots of turnover, much more work). I usually did long cardiovascular cases where once started there wasn't much to do for several hours,
I was setting up the doctor's first case and he came in, noticed I was hoarse and asked why. I said I don't know-probably getting a cold. He said No, you're not. You need to be seen at once. Three days later I was having surgery. He could tell by the type of hoarseness there were tumors on my larynx.
I'm happy you are doing well. Here's hoping we are around and healthy for quite a while.
I'm going to revise my comments above slightly as I am getting a little parasthesia but nothing like I was previously. Not relevant to the question but felt I needed to clarify.
I take 600mg NAC most days for help clearing gunge in my lungs (i.e. making it thinner and easier to cough up) and to reduce breathlessness. I don't take it unless I think I need it.
With my frequent 'flight of ideas' this question popped into my brain. I understand that gunky, thick, phlegm (lungs) also has a mucin component. Would it necessarily follow that NAC would help the excess mucin associated with lymphedema?
I have mild lymphedema in my lower legs. None of my docs seem to be able to get on top of this so I figure it's up to me. All suggestions appreciated.
I did have one referral to the lymphedema clinic but they wanted me to come for 3 x weekly massage/physical therapy with quite expensive copays. I can do this myself. I did get a soft dry brush for the brushing recommended.
Not exactly thyroid-related but everything is connected in one way or another.
I've seen it suggested a few times that NAC helps reduce levels of mucin in lymphedema. Sadly, I haven't come across any posts from people who've tried NAC for this purpose and found it worked.
Thanks so much hb. This is good enough for me. Am headed out tomorrow to my local store to buy. Will look for Swanson brand and start with 600/day then work up??
Lymphedema seems to be one of those illnesses that isn't too interesting to most doctors. The attitude seems to be 'live with it.' Maybe because it isn't a big moneymaker for doctors in general.
It appears to be a good money maker for hospital lymphedema clinics though. When I went for my consult everything they wanted to do cost big bucks: ongoing high copay physical therapy, custom support stockings that cost the earth. I use my own but their perspective was anything I would find on my own for a good price wouldn't be as effective as theirs.
I get so tired of all the moneymaking #^%$ often built into healthcare here.(US)
The maximum dose I've ever seen mentioned for NAC was 2400mg per day in divided doses, i.e. 600mg, four times a day. I have no evidence to say this is safe or effective for anything though.
Interesting I have some oedema on my ankles/feet that started when I was first hypo. Doctors don't know what it is/cause but I also have tendinopathy in both achilles, so they are guessing it's that. Due to continuing poor health I am not able to keep up with the exercises that may fix the tendinopathy. I have however bought a dry skin brush, but wondered whether that did actually have any effect on your lymph system or it was internet bunkum/psuedo-science - so was dry brushing recommended to you by the lymphedema clinic?
No. It's not bunk, Don't mean to get off topic-but maybe I'm not. I understand more people have lymphedema (lymphoedema) than previously thought.
As I look around at the residents in my senior living I've noticed many of them have red and swollen lower legs that could be lymphedema. My docs have said diabetic neuropathy, peripheral artery disease, cellulitis , etc but no one really thinks it's lymphedema. But I do and I am usually in tune with my body. Most likely for me it is a combination of diabetic neuropathy and lymphedema.
The clinic recommended the dry brush and had an expensive one I could buy. A nice therapist was very helpful showing me things I could do at home when I told her the clinic charged too much.
I went to Sprouts(US) - I think any health store would have dry brushes- and bought a soft bristle brush about 10 inches long with very soft bristles round in shape and about 3 inches in diameter at one end of the brush.
The procedure is you gently brush up your leg (for me-ankle to knee) in an upward motion toward the heart. The touch of the brush should be very very light almost like a butterfly or very light fingertips. This encourages the movement of thick mucin up and out of the cells. Tip: If you are brushing your arms or abdomen always brush toward you heart.
It is not permanent but I do it when my legs feel heavy, achy, and are hurting. I only have to do it about 5 minutes until the pain from the swelling is relieved enough to be comfortable. Mostly I do this at night if my legs wake me up.
Sorry to hog the thyroid site for this but maybe others have the same problem.
By the way, I just took a moment and joined the LSN (Lymphoedema Support Network) here on Health Unlocked. It is my 3rd forum and only glanced at some posts. I did see where in the US some studies are pointing to the Ketogenic diet as helpful for us. Will read indepth later on today.
Hope this helps. I'm anxious to get on top of this because my legs interfere with my sleep.
I went keto in April as a last resort and 7 stone surplus to requirements which were hanging on like grim death! I have had a real issue with fluid build up in my calves and ankles but sticking to keto significantly shifted it. I fell off the waggon for most of December and it all came back but a strict january finally took a while to kick in then suddenly I started peeing for england, I literally dropped half a stone of fluid in 3 days and several inches off each ankle and calf. None of my old shoes fit. I do have a spongy patch of what I think is mucin just below each knee which appears resistant and if further weght loss doesnt sort it may well give NAC a try. I have also managed to give nearly three stone the boot after failing to lose an ounce for years, so worth a try.
Thanks Phoenix. I'm really happy you shared about the keto diet. I've looked up the diet and it seems like I could dot his.
I got my NAC t)oday. And tomorrow will go food shopping. The LES (lymphedema site talked about keto. I am at the point I am willing to do what it takes to get on top of this problem.
Thanks again. Always glad to hear any other tips you find are working for you.
Thanks for your replies, very helpful. I'll make more effort to brush then if there's something in it. Didn't know about how light it had to be so will change what I am doing. Thanks!
I sometimes get very painful shins/ankles. If you press them it’s excruciating. Sometimes they feel a bit tight. I read this is caused by mucin build up exactly, which is the same as mucus.
It’s not supposed to be deposited in your ankles like that, hence the pain etc.
I try to massage them myself and rub in with magnesium oil.
They’ve improved more since stopping gluten, dairy and sugar. Also I no longer take anti inflammatory meds like I did. Used to pop tons of soluable aspirin for my migraines.
Now just make turmeric tea and plonk tiger balm and an ice pack on my head. Wishing you well.
Thanks. I do some of these things too. And I believe it is thyroid-related.
I also have atrial-fibrillation caused in part by poor thyroid management. Our lymph system is considered part of our vascular system so all is inter-related but rarely treated as such.
One of the things that makes medical care harder than it has to be in my opinion is the total segregation of body systems with different specialists having their own individual piece of the pie (and often guarding it zealously.)
Our body is one big system with different branches (like a tree) and a problem with one branch affects all the others.
As usual, just my take on things. But it's more and more the patient's responsibility to see we are treated as a whole. Difficult to do.
Sorry about the AT - my mum had that. Are you on blood thinners or BP meds? She had both. Sadly never diagnosed with her obvious thyroid probs. Keep well
Actually my a-fib is very stable and controlled. I was diagnosed in 2011 and after the usual early bumpy journey here is where I am today:
In permanent AF; had a successful Pace and Ablate in 2016; am on no cardiac meds;was on Coumadin (self-tested) until January 2018. At that time I chose to have a Watchman device inserted (a Left Atrial Appendage Occlusion) so I could stop taking anticoagulants. This worked out well and now no longer need the coumadin. I also don't need any BPmeds. The only med I take that is AF-related is 40mg of Lasix daily.
I also take T3 and T4for hypothyroidism. And my AF doctor is fine with my TSH staying below 1.0.
And I'm fanatical about my salt intake. It's been over 2 years since I have been treated for any heart failure symptoms. I keep my salt less than 1000mg/ day-more like 800mg. Low,I know but it's kept me out of heart failure and my last EKG in December showed no changes in over 2 years.
So no current AF problems. I don't even think about it every day. I'll be 75 in March and don't worry about AF anymore.
I'm so sorry your mother never got the care she needed. We're lucky AF care has come so far in recent years. Unfortunately I believe thyroid care has a way to go mostly because many doctors aren't interested in changing their views about testing and prescribing.
I've taken it off and on for years. It's an antioxidant and people always recommended it for lung or bronchial ailments. I haven't had one of those in decades so I guess that is how it has helped.
Hi Eddie83, I too take 6000 mg capsule daily. In my case it was for helping my liver as due to car accidents I took for years pain killers which deplete glutathione. Ultimately it helps allover & I feel the difference.
I take Lamberts NAC 600mg, largely because I have a very sensitive digestive system , I have taken Glutamine for a month or so, which helped, but decided to try the NAC, and there is now a big improvement, not only to my digestion, but also to my general well being !
I was recommended Swanson brand for having very little odour (thanks Humanbean). I've just ordered a new bottle. HealthMonthly was the cheapest that I could find
I started taking NAC in May when the Acumen Mitochondrial Test showed that my body isn't clearing toxins. NB I am diagnosed with ME/CFS, not hypothroidism but there are a huge number of similar symptoms.
I immediately had a surge in energy - it seemed that I had more oxygen going round my body - so I was confident that when I had another Acumen test the results would show an improvement in toxin clearance. Unfortunately, the opposite was the case and the rate of clearance was actually worse! This was a huge disappointment.
So, maybe NAC was helping in one area of health, but not in the area I was expecting. Or perhaps I'm not taking sufficient amounts.
It won't harm to give it a trial and see what happens as it does seem to have multifunctional benefits (so long as you're not contraindicated).
I'd be interested to see where people source their NAC as maybe I should be getting it from another company.
Hi just read side effects said anyone on a cancer drug, I have octriatide for liver Inj ever 28 days needs to b careful as it can stop cancer drug from working. I also have problems with taking meds make me sick. Just wondered if anyone has any ideas. I have neuroenderine cancer in liver which affects thyroid tried everything nothing works d x
I have taken the 600mg NAC in order to boost Glutathione levels, but honestly have never noticed any difference, just sort of take it on faith. Would you mind telling me what amino acids you found helpful for muscle/tissue repair?
I am in the U.S. The primary product I use is NOW Amino-9, a blend of 9 free aminos that are essential (i.e. which the body can't make), in proportions similar to what some research council has recommended. The branched-chain aminos in this blend are probably what help tissue repair, and you could probably get that effect by taking just those. I have also used (separately) some other non-essential aminos/derivatives, including glutamine, n-acetyl tyrosine, arginine, ornithine, 5-htp, on an occasional basis. I have experimented with NAC for 6 years, but have recently started taking it at 500mg daily because there is clearly a feeling of well-being associated with it.
Thanks very much for your response, I am in the U.S. also, and familiar with the NOW products so hopefully I can find that. Dealing with ongoing tendinosis problems, I asked my ortho if I needed more protein, he said "no", but I am going to give this a shot since physical therapy has not helped.
MDs seem to be clueless about amino acid issues. What I have used as a criteria, is the Total Blood Protein (TBP) test, which has a normal range of about 6.3-8.2 g/dl. My TBP sits around 6.1 if I do not supplement. I asked my doc to research his healthy patients to see what their TBP is, and he concluded that TBP in the upper part of the range (7.0-8.2) is what his younger and healthier patients have. There are other more elaborate tests, but the simple TBP test seems to be adequate for me. The Amino-9 product comes only in powder form, so I mix it into a small cup of a 12-strain organic kefir, eat that, then chase the taste with a small amount of fruit juice. I encapsulate it at home for travel. The bottle recommends doses of 5 or 10 grams per day, but I use 2 tablespoons (about 13 grams) per day.
Eddie, how clever! I just dragged out my blood tests to compare Total Blood Protein, as well as calling a Life Extension counselor where I get my tests done. (They have a pricier Amino Acid Profile Test, but like you say, this TBT may be sufficient!) My latest level was 6.5. She said more optimal is 6.9 to 7.4
Interestingly, if your blood test also shows your Albumin and Globulin, they total to the Total Blood Protein number. Low Albumin could be associated with malnutrition or absorption problems for your protein.
So an Amino-9 review did say it tastes nasty. Thanks for tips on how to drink it!
I took the LE amino acid fractination test also. The counselors were very unhelpful about explaining the results, and recommending what to use, to normalize the results. A syndrome I have experienced before: docs who want to order tests, but don't know what to do with the results. ☹️
Yes, I agree some of these tests are going beyond the scope of the Health Advisors. My inquiry today required a "senior" health advisor, and she had to stop several times to look up answers to my questions. She actually didn't recommend the Amino Acid Profile as she thought my numbers weren't bad enough, just beef up the protein, collagen, amino acids etc. and she recommended Wellness Code Muscle Strength & Restore which only has one branched chain AA - HMB a very bioactive form of leucine? What do you think of that one? I think your 9 sound better, if I can just manage to drink it down. LOL
A problem is that digestive power wanes with age. So if you are a senior, you can spend $$$ on food-based protein, but if your digestive system can't process food-based protein efficiently, you won't get the higher amino acid levels you need. I learned this lesson well before I reached senior age, because I had gluten enteropathy that wasted my gut; I had severe amino acid deficiency by the time I was 45, but not a single doctor noticed this. As for BCAAs, I think you want all of leucine, isoleucine, and valine; those are all in the Amino-9 formula because they are essentials. It's not clear to me why that health advisor is recommending just one BCAA.
Okay, I had to look it up. lol This one BCAA in supplement form is called HMB, supposedly for targeting muscle damage in athletes and muscle wasting in the elderly and sick.
The info I've found says that HMB is a metabolite of leucine. But that info still suggests that you need the full BCAA trinity: leucine, isoleucine, valine, although one source says that leucine is the most important of the 3.
Yes, I've used it for thinning mucus as I had sinus problems and poor drainage which was settling into my stomach and giving me nausea. It also helps people with TMJ (I was getting that at the same time). NAC seems to 'use up' Magnesium and B12, as I was getting low Mag / low b12 symptoms on it.. so worth bearing that in mind. Otherwise, though, it's certainly one worth keeping for short term use when required e.g. after a virus, or longer term use if someone has a lung complaint or liver problems, or Endometriosis, even PCOS (which I've been reading about). NAC also is said to reduce insulin resistance.
I think it may be a bit problematic with regard to histamine issues as it tends to encourage histamine release, so for people like my daughter that have got histamine problems, it's probably not very good to take for too long, at least not during a time of seasonal allergies.
It may just be me, but I was getting a lot of peripheral nerve twitches and some muscular aches and cramps on NAC. I take a truckload of Magnesium these days, so I don't use painkillers any more. I also came off b12 for several months to find out where my baseline has settled.. it's a lot better than it was, but there is room for improvement, so I've resumed taking it, but at a lower frequency than before. It actually seems to work better that way, I'm finding. I don't generally need NAC these days (less infections in general) but I keep some for my other half who gets a chesty cough most winters.
Thanks. I'll give the NAC a try mainly to see if it helps the lymphedema. I also take magnesium taurate or glycinate mainly for a-fib so will bump that up. I currently take B12 shots every 2 weeks as levels were low.
My sister has good results with sublingual B12 so may consider adding this if my levels start drifting down. She has terrible absorption problems as she had early (1984) weight loss surgery, Back then they took out quite a lot of small bowel, rearranged the stomach, etc. Thank goodness they have developed much less invasive, effective procedures now.
Just done some digging on the b12 deficiency symptoms from taking NAC.. Basically to a certain degree NAC works similarly to metformin and metformin has been documented in causing b12 deficiency.
Thanks HLAB. I saw that and since I give myself B12 injections q2 weeks I'm thinking I may do weekly for a while til I can get my Endo to check my level- maybe in a couple of months.
My levels tend to drift down and my Endo is good about checking them.
I also have a hard time keeping my Vit D up. I do this by eating 8 oz liver weekly/religiously. I have a lot of abdominal damage from radiation some years ago so try to avoid iron pills.
I think our bodies are like 1000 piece puzzles-we fit one piece correctly and two fall off the table and hit the floor.lol
I also encountered a histamine issue with Alpha-Lipoic Acid. Noticed my face would get red and itchy when I drank a small glass of wine. When I stopped taking the ALA with my evening meal, no more red-faced drinking.
NAC / N-Acetylcysteine is one of the (acetylated) amino acids most people can benefit from. Before and during endocrine illness, I've used a huge number of different amino acids, some with results, most with very little.
It can cause an upset stomach, so I recommend food or milk/fat with it. I didn't notice great improvements to cognitive function, however I can say I felt overall healthier when taking 600mg with each meal (600 x 3, 1800mg per day).
Oral bioavailabilty is pretty poor, so higher doses are required to boost glutathione effectively.
Personally, I only use it when I take paracetamol (Glutathione prevents the liver and lung toxicity that comes from it's metabolites). I also use NAC if I am drinking any more than a couple of units of alcohol.
The primary benefit of NAC (AFAIK) is to the lungs and the liver, particularly when using drugs/medicines known to deplete Glutathione.
Thanks for the alcohol tip. Apparently NAC has the effect of "sponging" up the (cancer-promoting) aldehydes that result from drinking alcohol. I suspect that an extreme negative reaction to even small amounts of alcohol (like I've had) is a clue to use NAC.
I take 600mg 2x day . It's a precursor to glutathione to begin with . And Glutathione is a life saver . It boosts the immune system . It's great for the liver and it's Great for the lungs . If I get colds or have coughs I raise my NAC to 3x/day . NAC should be in everyone's vitamin arsenal . Don't leave home without it .
Irina I use the one from Pure Encapsulations . It's a bit pricey but I find it to be the best . Just make sure to take it with food otherwise it can cause stomach upsets .
I was told to use up to 1000g/day taken in the morning and at night of NAC. My functional medicine doctor gave me this info. I cannot say how it has helped because supplementing with many things, cutting gluten, dairy, soy, and GMO have all had tremendous affects on my symptoms. I have hashi's and am without meds currently.
NAC is typically used for (has been for at least 50+ yrs) CF patients; it's also used for acute acetaminophen (tylenol) poisoning; ethanol poisoning. Yes, also used to help produce the body's own glutathione. Much depends on the situation the NAC is being used for to determine the correct dosage(s) to use. If it is used for the above mentioned here it would then be case specific & dosage tailored for that individual person and their presented condition. Should you use this NAC for general purpose to aid the body to produce glutathione for 'antioxidant' purposes etc; as you stated in your post..... Most go with and sell it at dosages 600 mg per capsule. For the purpose you're using it for (antioxidant etc; benefits) here, the dose is 1 capsule daily --(the 600mg capsule).
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