Inflamed and sore gums: Has anyone else had an... - Thyroid UK

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Inflamed and sore gums

MiniMum97
MiniMum97

Has anyone else had an issue with the above? I have Graves and possible hashis. Was underactive when last tested and am on just 25mcg levo.

The inflammation however started in June/July with some redness around my front right hand tooth. At this point I felt very well and assume my thyroid levels were good as they had been slightly high and the two week period of wellness was just after starting on carbi. It was during this two weeks I first noticed some slight redness. Assumed it was a bit of gingivitis so brushed and flossed more and used gengigel.

In November, it started feeling very sore. Saw a hygienist who confirmed no sign of gum disease at all. She thought it was trauma so I was careful with it for a few weeks. Despite this it became incredibly sore and spread along gums. Sometimes tongue and inside of mouth would feel sore, stingy or burning but it’s mainly the area around my front tooth. Gums looks red and sometimes swollen (not everywhere in certain places). Sometimes my front teeth hurt and feel slightly numb and “click” about.

At the moment my mouth is sore generally and it hurts around the offending tooth and that tooth also is sore and feels a bit numb. But it changes all the time.

Prior to the redness starting in June for a long time (few years) I would periodically get a generally sore mouth. Gengigel would help soothe this and it wasn’t particularly troublesome.

Had emergency dentist appt on Xmas eve as it got extremely sore again the day before and she said change toothpaste and use corsodyl gel. Did this and it did not change although corsodyl soothes it temporarily. Have tried two diff toothpastes and using no toothpaste for a week or so and nothing. She said come back if it didn’t work and they will refer me in case I have lesions that she can’t see? Whatever that means?

Went back to dentist yesterday and saw a different dentist thinks who thinks it might be burning mouth syndrome or “general inflammation” and recommended a herbalist (although she is a homeopathic dentist do not sure how much I buy in to the latter explanation). My CRP is always within range. She did X-rays which were clear. She has referred me on my request as I want to be sure before accepting this is yet another thing I have to live with.

I have sebhorrheic eczema on my scalp and vaginally and pompholyx eczema on my hands.

Anyone have anything like this or any clue what it might be? Has anyone tried anything that has helped?

I’ve just had some vitamin levels tested which I intended to post about separately. My ferritin is still on the low side and my zinc is sub-optimal (from what I have been able to gather online) but in range. I can post all the results if that might shed any light.

70 Replies
oldestnewest

Based on my personal experience of sore gums...

Try high dose vitamin C, say, 1mg (1000mcg), twice or three times a day. if it hasn't helped within a week, then it probably isn't going to help.

flicka
flicka
in reply to humanbean

Vit C really good for me, do hope it helps

Sedum
Sedum
in reply to humanbean

And more if necessary is safe. See good, short video by Dr Andrew Saul on Youtube on Vit C. Vit C gets used or flushed out very quickly, it doesn't accumulate- that is why we need it daily. Suggest credence.org's vit C powder mixed with water. A sign your body is saturated is bowel intolerance.. if you are not running to the loo with that your body can take more. Sometimes building it up for a while then doing a daily, lesser dose is good.

MiniMum97
MiniMum97
in reply to humanbean

Thank you for the vitamin C suggestions but I already take 1000 - 2000mg a day (with my iron) so don't think it is that in this case unfortunately.

Bonjela ? VitD levels ?

Sedum
Sedum
in reply to Marz

Yes Vit D important. Even children need a lot. Most people are very short of it. The immune system cannot work without it. All cancer patients have a low vit D level. Suggest a Phillip Day/Credence.org talk if you can when he tours the country. This and much more explained.. great info

Marz
Marz
in reply to Sedum

As do Crohns and Gut TB patients - I have/had both 😊 Seen PD several times ...

MiniMum97
MiniMum97
in reply to Marz

Thanks. Bonjela may help with the pain so may try that. Am currently giving aloe vera (straight from the plant) a go as of today - it tastes pretty disgusting. Am using Neem floss for a few days which provides some immediate relief but the pain comes back. I have ordered some neem toothpaste with sea buckthorn and tooth powder which also contains probiotics to see if either of these help.

I retested vitamin D in December and my level was 90 so not quite 100 but not bad so a guessing it's not that. Am going to do a separate post about my vitamin levels to get an idea of correct supplementation going forward more generally.

Marz
Marz
in reply to MiniMum97

I noticed on the Better You Magnesium Spray today that they suggest rubbing it into gums 😊 Didn't taste great. Have tried Tea Tree Oil too ! Your VitD is looking good 😊 I find a Dental Probe more effective than floss ...

MiniMum97
MiniMum97
in reply to Marz

Do you really use a dental probe?!?

There is a knack to flossing but I have it down! - Just do my front teeth which is easier than back - I use tepes for the back.

Not sure I fancy rubbing magnesium oil into my gums, that stuff stings on the skin!

Marz
Marz
in reply to MiniMum97

Yes I do - it's small and digs bits out where needed ! Floss - not that impressed ...

TSH110
TSH110
in reply to MiniMum97

I shove a clove in my lower lip gap by the painful teeth - very effective. I keep it there all day when the pain becomes intolerable! Oil of cloves is a traditional treatment fur tooth ache.

I almost lost my front teeth because of something like you are experiencing. Tried everything. What saved my teeth and gums was the WaterPik. waterpik.com/

Haven't had a problem in five years. I put two drops of bleach in the water trough. Dentist recommended that.

Thank you for your reply. It sounds as if you had gum disease which will cause recession and bone loss if left. If you have autoimmunity or other health issues you will be more likely to suffer from gum disease. I had reasonably bad gum disease in my twenties, and now have an amazing hygienist and have followed a very effective routine for a few years now to keep my gums and teeth healthy. I brush using an electric toothbrush (which has a light to tell you of you are brushing too hard and a timer) twice a day concentrating on the gum line. I use three diff sizes of tepe brushes at the back plus a special floss around one tooth as I have an implant. I use floss around the front teeth as the gaps are v tight at the front. To floss, you need to be very gentle, curve the floss around each tooth and make sure you take the floss high up under the gum line but without pushing or hurting your gums. The floss should be moved up gently twice, you should not use a sawing action - just move the floss up and down.

Anyway, I thought the above might be helpful to anyone who has gum disease who is struggling - I struggled for years. I now go to the hygienist every 6 months and she barely has to do anything as there is barely any plaque /tartar and rarely any bleeding. I was going to various hygienists for years and the gum disease kept coming back. It was only after seeing this hygienist that she finally showed me how to clean my teeth properly that the issue went away.

Another thing my hygienist has told me which was very helpful is you only actually need to remove the plaque from your mouth once every 24 hrs. The reason they recommend twice a day is in case you miss bits or skip a brush. After the bacteria has been present for 24 hrs is mutates into something much more aggressive and it's this that can lead to gingivitis and gum disease. She also explained that if you have autoimmunity you are much more likely to experience gum disease as if you are healthy and don't brush your teeth well, or leave it too long your immune system will probably cope with keeping the bacteria more under control, but if your immune system isn't functioning correctly then you have to really keep on top of your dental hygiene.

Anyway though this current inflammation is not gum disease. I've had this confirmed by my hygienist and two separate dentists. They don't know what is the cause hence my referral and this post!

Marz
Marz
in reply to MiniMum97

Having had my gut micro-biome tested I know I have the microbe in my gut that can cause gum and heart disease in some folk. Conversely I have high levels of another bacteria that is usually low in Parkinsons ... Having reached 72 - it's so far - so good. 😊

MiniMum97
MiniMum97
in reply to Marz

Where did you have your microbiome tested?

Marz
Marz
in reply to MiniMum97

With The British Gut research projectcand The American Gut. Now considering a re-run with Viome. Other companies do it too.

MiniMum97
MiniMum97
in reply to Marz

Oh yes, I've ordered the British Gut Project one - must get around to doing it and sending it in.

Perhaps you should try the WaterPik.

Thanks for your reply. My teeth and gums are v clean (with current regime of tepes and floss) with no signs of gum disease so I don’t think the waterpik will help in this case. I imagine it may really help do remove debris from between teeth if that’s your issue and tepes/floss are no good or don’t work. Thank you.

The water pik removes invisible bacteria as well as debris. Since you and your dentist cannot find a cause, I wouldn't discount the pik entirely. BTW, I did not have gum disease, just a pocket accumulating bacteria in one spot. Good luck.

If you had a pocket, that does suggest gum disease. You can have gum disease/pockets around only one tooth. I don't have any pockets, this has been checked by two dentists and hygienist.

deardoctor.com/articles/und...

TSH110
TSH110
in reply to MiniMum97

Great advice on the gum disease stuff esp the 24 hrs thing I feel less guilty for only being able to face teepee flossing once a day!

Did you mean you are on carbimazole? It might be a side effect. I had a weird skin problem when I was on it, even when my levels of T4 were reasonable, although they were mostly all over the place. Sadly I resorted to Thyroidectomy but that is another story. The skin problem cleared up immediately.

MiniMum97
MiniMum97
in reply to Hennerton

Hi Hennerton. Thank you for your reply. I am no longer on carbi but the inflammation did start interestingly just after I started taking it. I've not been on carbi for a number of months though.

Hennerton
Hennerton
in reply to MiniMum97

I wonder if Carbi has reduced some of your immune resistance and your body has not yet recovered. Remember the warning about a sore throat and seeing your GP immediately? Maybe worth asking for a blood test to look at all those names I normally skip hastily over like lymphocytes, leucocytes, etc, which in my case are usually quite low but I have no idea why and my GP never seems to care. How are your iron levels and ferritin? Also zinc? Just a thought....

My very odd blisters on my feet went away after TT and my Endo had no idea what caused them but I was always convinced it was carbimazole.

PS. Just seen on another post that your ferritin and zinc are not good, so my suggestion is now definitely to deal with those and slowly your body will recover,

My teeth used to feel like they were marching around my mouth when I was untreated with overt hypothyroidism. I got jaw problems as well. It resolved once I was optimally medicated but it has started up again with pains in my front teeth/gums but mainly in the left. The teeth are in excellent nick but I have awful gum disease. I have not found a solution to it it starts at hurting at 5:30 pm every day so I Suspect it could be hormonally induced by whatever switches on at that time of day. Sounds like you have a great dentist mine would be root canaling and ripping out teeth at the first opportunity no consideration for me having hypothyroidism 🙄 pity my Polish dentist went back home he was brilliant. I am going to try some of the vitamins others have recommended here. I hope you get it sorted, mine is really miserable pain.

MiniMum97
MiniMum97
in reply to TSH110

Hi TSH110 - thanks for your reply and sorry to hear of the problems you are having with gum disease - i can sympathise as this pain is horrible. You should have been referred to a hygienist or specialist periodontist (if the disease is severe) as under your gum line will need properly cleaning out and you won't be able to do that yourself. Hygienists are generally private but periodontists can be seen under NHS with a referral. The teeth should not need removing because of gum disease (unless the gums are too far down the line to save the teeth). You might find my post above helpful in terms of how to properly clean teeth (as directed by my amazing hygienist!), but you definitely need to see a hygienist too. My inflammation is not gum disease sadly as I would know what to do with that!

TSH110
TSH110
in reply to MiniMum97

THanks 😊 i do see the hygienist as well as the dentist. He is wonderful and gets the junk out every 6 months. Pity the dentist is not in his league.

I get mouth problems. Really sensitive gums, tongue hurts, I’m sure it is a variation on burning mouth. I have also started getting cold sores on the roof of my mouth. Always in the same place - they take a week to go away and are incredibly painful. Like the rest of you when I go to speak to the hygienist or dentist about it they always say everything is fine

I visit the dentist once a year and the hygienist every three months for a scale and polish. I also use a waterpik and TePe interdental brushes and my dentist and hygienist always comment on how healthy my mouth is. Annoying when I think how bad it feels at times.

I alternate between Himalaya Botanique toothpaste which has everything that could possibly irritate removed or if my teeth are feeling sensitive then I use Colgate Sensitive for a while and when things are particularly bad I gargle with salt water, I think that helps although I also use Gengigel rinse. I take 1000mcg vitamin C every day plus vitamin D&K combined and a B complex.

I’m in remission from Graves. Maybe it’s a side effect of thyroid disease. It’s not much fun though and not helped by the fact that sinusitis gives me toothache like symptoms too. X-rays show there’s nothing wrong with my teeth so it’s antibiotics from the doctor which I hate taking but sometimes when home remedies fail there’s no option but take them as a last resort ☹️

That's interesting that you are also in remission from Grave's and have similar problems. Thankfully I've never suffered from cold sores (although who knows what's going to go wrong next!), your experience sounds horrible!

I know Grave's antibodies causes inflammation behind the eyes, so I was wondering if they they could somehow attack the gums too, but I can't find anything to support my random theory! Interestingly as I mention above, the inflammation of my gums started almost immediately after I started on carbi, but has continued and gotten worse since I stopped it so not sure I can blame that? Also I did have general soreness in my mouth for a long time way before my Grave's started.

I am trying Aloe today, but am also going to try salt water too. I've used gengigel for my general soreness before and it was very helpful but it doesn't seem to be touching this.

That is interesting. The ulcers sound dreadful I used to have a gob full - agony . I had short bouts of hyperthyroidism interspersed with linger periods of hypothyroidism. My symptoms were quite mixed too cold but anxious, exhausted with angina, mouth ulcers jaw problems and teeth that aches like hell, chronic urticaria on my shins so itchy is scratch till I bled etc etc , I had no goitre, and was as thin as a rake they did think I had Graves initially but I was eventually diagnosed as atropic autoimmune thyroiditis. I think these mouth/teeth problems must be thyroid related or why are we all getting them?

MiniMum97
MiniMum97
in reply to TSH110

Yes definitely seems to be a theme.

I have exactly this from time to time. Dentist says it’s gingivitis personally I think it’s oral lichen planus (I have also had an episode of vaginal lichen refereed for and no definitive diagnosis) so I think it’s all connected and flares up from time to time. My levels are all well in range and I am careful to keep up my nutrients. I too have just bought a waterpik and my gums feel so much better. I also use lots of Vit C when it flares. I think certain foods, stresses etc affect it. It’s horrid and very very sore when it flares up so I do feel your pain. I have three monthly checks at the dentist now because if it where he checks my mouth so I’m hoping I’ve got all aspects covered but with this disease who knows what’s next? Best wishes x

Have you had your levels tested for vitamin D, B12, folate and ferritin? Classic symptoms of deficiency x

Hello Yes I have recently had my levels tested (Dec). My ferritin has been lowish for ages, can't seem to increase it. Trying lots of different things. D is good as mentioned above. B vits look OK. Am going to do a separate post re these to ask advice about supplementation going forward.

As someone who actually had their teeth wobbling and feeling loose - I would say this is a sign of severe Vitamin C deficiency - what isn't realised is that the adrenal glands have the highest amount of Vitamin C in their process because it is needed. One of the symptoms of scurvy is what you are prescribing - if you are out of sync with your thyroid hormone then your adrenals will be grabbing all the C it can - it may also cause other symptoms like scars widening. I know I had this happen to me - it was frightening. Suggest you take Vega 1,500 mg of Vitamin C - it is one I highly recommend. I am a thyroid plus diagnosed adrenal insufficient patient by the way.

Thank you for your suggestion but I already take 1000-2000mg of vit c everyday with my iron.

Might be worth trying liposomal C. I used to take up to 10g of vit C at one time so could just be worth increasing: 1g is probably a minimum amount to take

I’ve had inflamed gums since July but the dental service is so good for those of us that can neither sit or stand that I am still waiting for help. But dry mouth is associated with Sjogrens, swollen gums implicated in IBD and obviously there are the issues of infection/deficiency.

I eventually found Gengigel, apply to the inflammation, and biotene dry mouth gel, both help. Hope you get somewhere.

MiniMum97
MiniMum97
in reply to cwill

Thank you for your reply. I don't think it's Sjorgens as I don't have any of the other symptoms like dry mouth. Gengigel I've used before but it's not working :-( I have just been referred and been told it's likely to be about 6 months!

Hey there, MiniMum

I've just answered you but on a previous post about being " fed up " sorry - was reading your history and forgot to update screen to your most recent post.

Don't know how to " lift and replace my reply to current question " any help please from administration ?

Thank you in advance

Penny

SeasideSusie
SeasideSusieAdministrator
in reply to pennyannie

Sorted for you :)

MiniMum97

Hey there MiniMum

So, as I understand it you were being treated for hypothyroidism and more recently have had further blood tests including antibodies and are now diagnosed with Graves Disease.

So I'm with Graves and post RAI 2005 - then became hypothyroid + thyroid eye disease + Graves. The thyroid is the victim in all this, not the cause - Graves is an autoimmune disease condition and as such, it is for life.

I became very unwell about 5 years ago - I had no saliva causing terrible pain within my mouth. My dentist suggested Sjogrens - seemed a " fit " asked doctor for referral.

Lip biopsy negative but rheumatology diagnosed low ferritin ( 22 ) -

Referred to gastro - for endoscopy and colonoscopy - I had had both procedures years earlier, prior to this diagnosis, with no undue problems - I expressed some reservation regarding my mouth pain and dryness but was assured it would all be ok.

Endoscopy aborted due to no saliva with which to swallow scope - ( I did say so ) !

Trolley swung around and entry into my bum, and guess what - shock horror, same excruciating pain - I fainted waking up attached to a heart monitor and a drip in my other arm.

Sent away - no bowel cancer rebook for barium meal - ?

I have had dry, burning mouth for some 2 years - no saliva - I believe this to be either the consequences of drinking radioactive iodine and / or Graves Disease.

I have received no help from my doctor, suggesting I suck ice cubes -

Sofa sat and virtually housebound for several months - I found this wonderful site -

I was on Levothyroxine but from what I know now, undermedicated.

With ferritin at 22 I was not able to utilise the Levo so compounding my problems.

I had had continual diarrhoea for 3 months on the iron tablets.

I then started trying to eat liver, whizzed down into a paste as I couldn't bite or eat solids, my mouth pain too awful.

Elaine Moore's book - Graves Disease A Practical Guide - extract -

" sicca syndrome similar to Sjogrens Syndrome may occur in Graves Disease patients following RAI ablation " _ well that's where I am, is it Graves or is it the RAI side effects ?

It's 2 years on, my mouth is almost back to normal, I've saliva, I 've had to have several extractions, and now a bridge fitted in the front bottom jaw.

I presented my findings to my doctor and endocrinologist but am now at an impasse having had no answers and a refusal for combination of T3 + T4 as suggested in the

above book = I thought I was trying to help by doing with this research but seem to have alienated me even further from my Nhs doctor.

I am now self medicating with NDT and know this is the right way for me.

Elaine Moore has this disease and had RAI - there is a website - USA protocol -

Your thyroid and How to keep it healthy - Dr Barry Durrant Peatfield another goto-book.

In my research I also can across Burning Mouth Syndrome -

Causes listed include - hormone changes, problems with the immune system, nutritional deficiencies, thyroid problems. I know you can read anything into anything, and maybe I'm clutching at straws, but that's all I have as no medical professional has ever attempted to help me get well.

I'm still wanting answers, but some days find it all daunting - probably need to up the my NDT ?

Sorry to have gone on a bit, it's a truly confusing situation, we are disabled by TSH reads that are not appropriate for those of us with autoimmune conditions, then most likely left undermedicated, and then have to resort to research and medicating ourselves.

Thanks for your reply and sorry to hear about all you have had to go through. Did the liver in a paste work to improve your ferritin? How did you eat it? Did you cook it?

SeasideSusie
SeasideSusieAdministrator
in reply to MiniMum97

Minimum

You've replied to me, did you mean to reply to pennyannie

Yes I did, thank you for tagging her. Many thanks

Yes, I fried the liver quickly in olive oil and butter, then whizzed it all down with some Hellmans. I ate a large spoonful everyday at breakfast, my ferritin went up from 22 to 45 within 6 months, and I just kept on going, reaching 70 + 6 months later. Whereupon I felt a lot better as then, the levothyroxine was at least giving me some help.

I started off buying fresh liver, either pigs or lambs and cutting it up and getting very bloody in the process. Recently found Asda has small pots of frozen chicken livers, clean and ready to go straight into the frying pan. Less hassle, less strong a taste, but I hide most of it in the Mayo.

Ooo! That's a good idea. Not sure I could stomach it at breakfast, but maybe in the evening. How much liver to mayo ratio - did you try and get your 200mg of liver over the week? Did it taste OK? When you say a large spoonful, did you mean a dessertspoon? I wonder if you could use it in sandwiches or as a "side" to a salad - or is it really just something you need to get down you?

I wasn't able to eat in the conventional sense of the word. I had a dry burning mouth, no saliva, and the pain was excruciating. I had no taste buds to talk off. Saliva contains a natural pain relief that is 6 x stronger than morphine.

I was beside myself - with the pain cold rice pudding, custard, all straight out the fridge, soups and whizzed down liver pressed against the roof of my mouth, as I felt I couldn't bite, my mouth feeling like concrete. When my saliva started to reappear, I had to have several teeth extracted and a plate fitted in my bottom front where 3 teeth had to come out. Ultimately 7-8 teeth have been extracted but I'm getting on ok now - my taste buds have changed, I only eat very bland food.

Liver pate is a common dish.

Oh I am so sorry - it sounds absolutely horrendous. How awful for you. Am glad it is getting slightly better, but sounds like a horrific experience for you.

Thank you - I am a lot better, just to be doing this is amazing, compared to where I was 2 years ago.

There's a completely tasteless toothpaste called Oranurse that you can buy online.

Also Weleda make a children's toothpaste (or gel) that is meant to be non-irritating, though I found that it did irritate.

Thank you for this. Were you aware that Oronurse contains parabens?

Am waiting for some Neem toothpaste to arrive, will def check out some other options if this doesn't work

I have Oral Lichen Planus Autoimmune disease. Worth a google

Hi Thank you - yes I"ve look at this and my mouth doesn't look like the images. You can barely see anything just some slight redness around the gum where the gum meets the tooth.

Hi

Sounds as if you need high levels of vitamin C and to start detoxing from all the chemicals/drugs you can which drain the body of C and other vital nutrients like B and trace minerals. Normal toothpaste has fluoride which is bad for the thyroid. Harsh mouthwashes are bad too. Your skin problems can be due to the body trying to detox itself-it often comes out from the skin. I have a tendency to high T4 and thyroid issues. I cut out potential personal care toxins 20 years ago, and changed to mostly organic food. The more I bother with intense nutrition the better I feel. I managed to avoid endo suggestion of carbimazole when there was an acute problem, with intense nutritional support for 3 weeks and levels returned to normal. I less and less see drugs as an answer. How many people on here take drugs and more drugs and feel properly better? Side effects can be as bad or worse over time.There is even more I could have done and I could be more consistent.. but I feel better than I did 20 years ago, by far. I have been in a bad place at times dealing with all this, and only have to get lazy for things to start getting worse.. I use personal care/toothpaste, and nutrients from zest.sisel.net and from Credence.org (magnesium citrate and VitC powder).

MiniMum97
MiniMum97
in reply to Sedum

Thanks for your reply. I too avoid toxins in personal care products and cleaning products wherever possible.

Wow I thought it was just me and although I look after my teeth I thought I wasn't doing it well enough. Now reading all these posts it seems as though it could be all connected. About time graves caused something else 🙄

MiniMum97
MiniMum97
in reply to purple64

Your dentist or hygienist should be able to confirm whether the cause of your inflammation is gum disease or not. If gum disease, you may just need to adjust your cleaning routine (see my post above for my fab hygienist's recommendations that cleared me of gum disease. If it's not gum disease then yes it appears there is more than one of me! At least we are not alone I suppose! Fruitandnutcase above is in remission from Graves and reporting similar problems. Maybe it is a Grave's thing :-(

I am going to try a few things and report back if I have any success. x

I suffer from this off and on. Here are some things that have helped me:

*Upping zinc intake

*Gargling and swishing in mouth with coconut oil and Himalayan pink salt is (very soothing) and antifungal/ antibacterial

*Gargling with warm salt water after brushing with non flouride paste

*Taking a yeast cleanse herbal formula

*Laying off sugar or greatly reducing it

Note: When I was younger there was a UK remedy that was available here in the states called Tcp Antiseptic solution. We swore by it. It could be used for anything. We would dilute in warm water and swish in mouth. It healed and helped numb pain. It was taken off the shelves here long ago, and is sorely missed. Give it a shot if it's still available to you. It's some good stuff 😊

Theoutsiders
Theoutsiders
in reply to Ell17

It’s still available, and helps with my sore mouth.

MiniMum97
MiniMum97
in reply to Ell17

Yes I am wondering if it's my sub-optimal zinc - am going to post separately about this as I think you need to be careful taking zinc supplements especially when ferritin is low as I believe zinc supplements can lower ferritin from a bit of reading I have done (so not 100% sure of this, for clarity).

I've noticed it annoyingly does seem to worsen if I eat sugar so wonder if it has a fungal element. I need to bite the bullet and stop sugar for a few days to test it but find this extremely difficult as I also have low mood and am very tired as my thyroid hormones are still low.

I'll try the TCP! thank you.

I like Ell17's reply - I was going to suggest a similar course of action.. but will add this ..

Neem and Tea tree mouthwash by The Neem People is pretty good (available from Dr Sarah Myhill) it's anti-fungal and anti-bacterial.

Also, Co-enzyme Q10 levels are often very low in people with gum disease. Try taking some with fatty meals. It blocks histamine as well as helps the heart. (Gum disease is linked to heart issues.)

justvitamins.co.uk/blog/coe...

Have you ever considered that your problem is histamine related - there seem to be a lot of allergies going on with you.. ? My daughter has this and she cannot eat cooked meats (more than a day old), most fish, anything pickled or fermented, alcohol - if she does her mouth and throat tend to swell.. As a standby she'll take an antihistamine, but it's not a long term solution as antihistamines also suppress production of DAO. Quercetin is looking like a promising solution for those with the problem.

Trying a low histamine diet could be the solution - there are books available on this. The reason is due to low levels of the enzyme that renders histamine harmless. DAO enzyme is made using several things including zinc (your levels are low) and B6 and vitamin C. Some probiotics are said to help, but others can make it worse, so you have to do some research..

healthline.com/health/hista...

dietvsdisease.org/histamine...

MiniMum97
MiniMum97
in reply to HLAB35

Hi Thank you for your reply. Yes I liked Ell17's suggestions too.

I've looked at histamine intolerance before - I will only consider this as an absolutely last resort. I think my husband may leave me if I start on another new massively restricted diet! And I say that only partly in jest. I've been low fodmapping for a long long time, much longer than I should as I concurrently started to develop an underactive thyroid making it difficult to reintroduce. So on top of how my general ill health has affected our relationship and our social life (and everything) generally, the one main thing we enjoyed doing together - eating out - we have not really been able to do for about 3 years. We bought take-away at the weekend for the first time in as long as I can remember and it was lovely and I didn't get any gut symptoms the next day - yay!

I've not ordered the mouthwash, but have just ordered some Neem toothpaste and tooth powder.

The inflammation I have is not gum disease so not sure Co-enzyme Q10 will help from what I've looked at?

I have oral lichen planus which is destroying my gums which can get very painful and bleed etc. Consider a toothpaste that does not have sodium laurel sulphate and this is a killer for gums. I used sensodyne

MiniMum97
MiniMum97
in reply to Keithwday

Hi I already use (used) a toothpaste with no SLS (also sensodyne). Thanks for your reply.

Hi. Happy and HEALTHY new year to all. I don't come to this site very often but, when I do, I try to help. Sorry to hear about your gingival problems.

I would try 2000 mg of vitamin C. The one I use is by American Health and it is Ester-C and not ascorbic acid. Ester-C is absorbed better and is milder in the stomach. I was taught that it is wise to build up to the desired dosage by adding 500 mg every 3 days. That means that u would have to buy 500 mg capsules to start. If it is more cost effective to buy 1000 mg capsules, start with 1000 mg and stay with that for about 7 days before increasing to 2000 mg. The reason for the gradual increase is to avoid any stomach distress. I know that can be common with the ascorbic acid form but not so much with the ester-c form. I prefer capsules to tablets as there are generally less ingredients such as fillers and binders. I would continue with the ester-c for 1-3 months. If u see a difference, or not, vit-c is a great antioxidant. 2000 mg is a good daily dose but some cut back to 1000 mg for daily maintenance for general health benefits.

A waterpik water flosser is a great tool to have and use. I suggest the round head toothbrush. I am not convinced that a sonic toothbrush is any better. I would continue to manually floss even though I use a waterpik. Check with the manufacturer to see if you can add some saltwater to the water well. If it is ok and won't damage the unit, I would dissolve the salt in the water prior to adding it to the water well. If it is recommended that u don't add saltwater, rinse with a small amount at the end of the day, before bedtime. As an aside, I have found that I sometimes get stomach aches which I have determined are from the bacteria in my mouth. This happens when I get lazy and miss a few days of flossing. However, If I floss and use the warm saltwater, the stomach ache disappears.

I don't know for sure about this next bit but I will pass along what I learned years ago. I used to read and hear on talk radio shows that CoQ10 was good for gum problems. I prefer Jarrow Formulas, Inc.

Ubiquinol QH-absorb. The ubiquinol form is better absorbed, etc. and Jarrow is a reputable company. This is primarily a supplement for the heart, to keep it healthy. The effect on the gums may just be a little known byproduct.....dunno. I don't hear much about it these days but I used to hear that one should consider their weight when considering the dosage. I am sorry but I can't recall exactly what was suggested. It seems to me that it was 100 mg if you weighed about 100 pounds (7.14 stone) and 200 mg of you were closer to 200 pounds. I guess it would be safe to follow package directions :-) I don't expect that you would see quick results. As with most supplements, it can take anywhere from 1-3 months to see change.

Please, remember to consult a physician before taking any supplements, especially with pre-existing conditions. Unfortunately, there are not too many around who know both traditional and alternative medicine (not in the states, anyway). I am sharing some things I have learned over the years and hope the info proves helpful. All the best.

MiniMum97
MiniMum97
in reply to kishlan

Thank you for your reply. I'll have a look at the ester C vit C and Co-enzyme Q10, although I think the latter is good where you have gum disease which I don't have, just inflammation cause unknown.

kishlan
kishlan
in reply to MiniMum97

Hi. The ubiquinol qh absorb, when taken regularly, is supposed to help prevent gum problems. So, if that has any truth to it, that plus the ester c should help. I forgot to mention how important it is to take a probiotic. It should contain 10 strains and at minimum, 10 billion. If you can find Vital-10 by Klaire Labs, that is good. It is a powder and only need 1/4 teaspoon. I mix it in small amount of water, maybe 3 oz (90 ml). I take it before going to sleep. Your gum problem could even be as a result of too much bad bacteria in the gut. I hope u find something that helps.

Thanks everyone for your many and helpful replies. Sorry it has taken me some time to come back to you. I've been struggling lately mentally and physically and wanted to take time to review all the posts properly. Will try to respond to each post.

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