Article in BMJ comparing diagnosis of Hashimotos in U.K. and Germany after working in both countries

[jamjar67]

Interesting but very upsetting to learn and why are things not changing in the U.K....I am newly diagnosed, my TSH was 9.3 and my symptoms horrendous and now to learn that much of this suffering could have been prevented!!!!!

bmj.com/content/345/bmj.e75...

[MissGrace]

A really clear and heartfelt article. It would be so helpful to us all if we were treated by a health profession with a thyroid issue. After all, there are plenty of us around.

[jamjar67 in reply to MissGrace]

This is all new to me but I am also shocked and saddened that this article was in the BMJ in 2012, it says some Endos agree and are making noise but nothing seems to have been changed..., I have 2 daughters and am now so worried about them !!

[Aurealis in reply to MissGrace]

Hi MissGrace, well we know now don’t we, courtesy of this site (and others) that there are plenty of us around. But I spent 20 years believing that I was the only one that didn’t fit gp expectations, test results and symptom wise.

The NHS has a lot of improvement due for thyroid conditions -

- Timely initial diagnosis

- Recognition of symptoms by GPs

- Optimal treatment

- Availability of treatment

- Availability of suitable blood tests eg FT3

- Prevention of development of secondary conditions arising from lack of

treatment or undertreatment of hypothyroidism

It’s an equality issue that needs addressing, we are being discriminated against, and we are predominantly women.

[MissGrace in reply to Aurealis]

Thank you for you reply Aurealis it really sums up the problems. We will make no progress until they at the very least accept blood testing TSH, T4 and T3 and treating the symptoms/patient not the blood test alone. Someone else on this forum once said we were probably better off before they established a blood test/assay for TSH etc. and went on symptoms. I can’t help seeing some truth in that. Oh the irony of a medical advance sending us backwards! 😱

[shaws Administrator]

This is not an uncommon experience in any way. I, myself, was told I had a 'web' in my throat which should be removed or I'd choke to death. After op the doctor didn't even have the courtesy to speak to me (which they usually do). When I saw him a week later he said there had been no 'web'. What was on the barium swallow then I asked but he couldn't respond to that question and off I went again on a long and neverending quest to know why I was so very, very unwell. However your money isn't returned.

Not one doctor or specialist I saw diagnosed me and I was given other diagnoses.

I diagnosed myself, finally, as I had to get assistance at an airport and the First Aider mentioned 'thyroid'. He could obviously see what no other medical professional did not. I had phoned GP and demanded a blood test form. I had to go straight to A&E from airport and was kept in overnight at the A&E, ran on treadmill etc. and discharged as 'probably viral with high cholesterol'. Fortunately for me my husband collected blood test request from surgery and I got my blood test - I had another Full Blood Test about two weeks previously and was told there was nothing wrong with me. I got another blood test and within two hours another GP phoned and said 'who gave you a blood test form, I said 'I did'. she said come and get a prescription - you have hypothyroidism. A word I had never heard of before. TSH was 100.

[Aurealis in reply to shaws]

Scandalous!

[jamjar67 in reply to shaws]

And I thought the first rule of medicine is ‘do no harm’ Hippocratic oath.... 🤔 this is scandalous!!!

[MaisieGray in reply to jamjar67]

Not every school of medicine asks it graduates to take the Hippocratic Oath - some expressly don't ask it, some have a modified version of the original, or a version of their own.

[Aurealis]

Hi jamjar67,

Thanks for posting this, I found the response to the article very interesting, but I can’t access the original article without paying. Is there a way?

[jamjar67 in reply to Aurealis]

Hi..., my daughter is studying medicine, I’m not sure if she’s a member of BMJ but if she is I’ll get the main article and copy and post it.

[humanbean in reply to Aurealis]

It's a very short article. It is available on sci-hub :

sci-hub.tw/https://doi.org/...

[DeeD123 in reply to humanbean]

That has made me so sad 😢

[Aurealis in reply to humanbean]

Sorry humanbean, I can’t access that either, it seems to be a site that uses a different alphabet

[humanbean in reply to Aurealis]

There are some internet providers who block Sci-Hub. Maybe you have one of those. I can read the link in English, although bits and pieces of it are sometimes in Cyrillic.

I would suggest you try using a different browser, but other than that, I can't suggest anything useful.

[Aurealis in reply to humanbean]

Thanks humanbean. I’m using safari on iPad.

[diogenes Remembering]

Well, here we have it in a nutshell! That in thyroid matters as in too much else medical, the UK is a backward (2.5nd-world if not 3rd-) country. My German colleagues too would be amazed at this sheer dereliction of duty and the ignorance shown. What annoys me more than anything else is the sullen refusal to rethink matters here until dragged kicking and screaming (sorry, got it wrong, it should be quietly abandoning without admitting fault) into a reality pioneered elsewhere. I think there is a particular British disease. It is a tendency to make and adhere so tightly to oppressive rules as to strangle any initiative. In this country, if someone proposes a rule for action, the reaction is to jump up twice as high and simply overkill the problem with unbending bureaucracy. So in medicine and medical practice "guidelines" (rules).

[humanbean in reply to diogenes]

There is also a peculiar disease of the British in many situations : The belief that the British Establishment can never be wrong and all those "Johnny Foreigners" MUST be wrong.

Note for anyone non-British : Calling anyone non-British "Johnny Foreigner" was something that allegedly happened during the World Wars, although it might only have happened in stupid comedies, I don't know. I wasn't around at the time.

[MaisieGray in reply to humanbean]

Johnny Foreigner is an Indie Rock band from Birmingham ...... 😉

[Kitten44]

Utterly depressing, but I can relate. Like the author, I've a family history of hypothyroidism. My sister lives abroad and is on T4/T3 combination therapy. I think her TSH was barely above 4 when diagnosed. Medication is available over the counter there.

Here I am in the UK, TSH increasing over the years, symptoms too, 3st weight gain (despite having been a keen gym goer all my life). After I thought I found a decent GP willing to treat me, now the TSH has dropped, the "guidelines" are inescapable, and arguments of scientific evidence completely ignored. How sad!

[humanbean in reply to Kitten44]

Just out of curiosity, which country does your sister live in?

[Kitten44 in reply to humanbean]

Mexico

[humanbean in reply to Kitten44]

Ah, thanks. Could you ask your sister what brand of Levo and T3 she takes. It's always useful to know the names of brands that are good.

[Gilbo72]

I was trialed on Levo by my lovely family GP who knew me well and new I was not right when my TSH was about 5. He then diagnosed me fully, continued the prescription and gave me a medical exempt card. I was on Levo for 9months. When I moved house my new GP was an old fart who didn’t know me from Adam. He refused to repeat my prescription by saying ‘if you have a thyroid problem I’ll eat my hat’, and then sent me on a 5 year journey of seeing every ‘specialist’ you can think of except an endocrinologist. All my test results came back normal except for a raised TSH and positive thyroid antibodies. He ignored all that, ignored the advice of one consultant who told him ‘I think she has an autoimmune disease, labelling her with CFS will be very unhelpful’. In the meantime I had very little hair left, thick scales down the front of my shins, my fingernails were falling off from their beds, I could barely get up in the morning, I felt like I had the flu 24/7 for years. I couldn’t function, couldn’t think, felt so low, my rings in my fingers hurt as they cut into the water retention I had, I did not recognised the old, round face that looked back at me every morning. He finally diagnosed me with CFS and then referred me to the ME clinic which I attended for a year. He did not tell them about the thyroid connection and so they gleefully concurred that I was another poor sucker who had got ME, a condition of unknown cause and no known cure!!

Ironically during my time there, I mentioned that I had been on Levo and that worked for me. The clinic (not the GP) referred my to the endocrinologist. Saying that ‘ooh yes, we could trial you on Levo, quite a few of our patients have responded well to levo’!!!! (Good grief!) finally the endo I saw prescribed levo and wrote to my GP saying ‘ her previous symptoms were most likely due to untreated hypothyroidism NOT CFS... and she probably has a conversion issue.’ The old fart GP ignored all that too. He hates the fact I’m on levo and regularly tried to reduce it. Every time I went to him with a symptom he would say ‘well you have ME.’ He is a horrible man and has stollen my kids childhood memories of their mother from them. It’s appalling that he made assumptions that I was neurotic, depressed, anxious, lazy rather than listening to what I was telling him. (Or what the consultants were telling him!)

Phew! X

[jamjar67 in reply to Gilbo72]

Omg!!!! So many terrible stories..., and unbelievable haw one GP can undo another’s recommendations without taking the patients symptoms into consideration..., I’m not long diagnosed so this is all new to me.., I’m shocked!!!