Success with T3 Only for Rt3?

[Advocate1]

Hey guys,

I got another round of doctor visits lined up this week.

I’ve been dealing with Euthyroid Sick Syndrome most likely since my last testosterone cycle at the end of 2015, though just found out about it several months ago.

I wanted to know if anybody has had any success with non thyroidal illness and using t3?

I did t3 only early in the month for about a week but the endo I recently saw said that the 10mcg I was prescribed was utterly useless and I should discontinue, so I did.

They told me that treating Rt3 with t3 wouldn’t necessarily be beneficial, but I think at this point I have to try.

I’ll be seeing an immunologist this Wednesday, and an endo tomorrow who tested everything under the sun for my thyroid.

I know I need to find the underlying cause for my conversion issue, but I seriously doubt if I’ll be able to find it.

I’ve read that steroids can induce low t3 levels and I know t3 is needed for GH production. Is it possible I’m caught in a vicious cycle, needing optimal t3 to use GH but needing GH to induce t4-t3 conversion?

Regardless, I need to get this fixed so I can live my life cuz I haven’t been able to do that for several years.

If anybody has had success on t3 protocol, could you please tell me your regiments?

All general advice is welcome as well. Thanks!

[greygoose]

If you don't take any T4, and your thyroid isn't making any T4, and you're taking T3 only because you're hypo, your rT3 is obviously going to go down to zero - you can't make rT3 without T4. (Some is made in the thyroid itself, I believe, but I'm assuming your thyroid is no-longer working.)

However, that will not solve the problem. It won't improve your conversion of T4 to T3. As soon as you start taking T4 again, if you haven't solved the real problem causing rT3, then the rT3 level will rise again. It's not the rT3 causing your conversion problem.

However, you're right about the GH. Have you had that tested? Seems to me the only way out of that vicious circle is to take T3. A lot of people are very happy on T3 only. But, obviously, 10 mcg wouldn't be enough. I take 75 mcg T3 only because I cannot tolerate T4. But, T3 only is not a permanent 'cure' for high rT3.

[Advocate1 in reply to greygoose]

Yeah, if anything it would be a temporary cure. Or at the very least my solution of choice going forward.

I’ve had people on forums mention pituitary issues, but I don’t know what exactly could be wrong in my pituitary. GHD makes the most sense but with quality IGF-1 levels I don’t know how that’s possible. I don’t necessarily fit much of any other pituitary deficiencies and there’s I don’t know if there are hypothalamic specific disorders.

Maybe I should try and find an endo that would do an MRI.

But like I said, if anything I’ll do HGH. Maybe a few months of hgh could cure the problem incidentally, especially because of the healing properties it could have on the tissues in my body.

I could take t3 but I wouldn’t be surprised if it didn’t work, it’s basically a 50/50 shot.

Hopefully I’ll be able to get some answers soon.

[greygoose in reply to Advocate1]

Why do you say T3 wouldn't work? It would do its job - you can't ask more than that.

I'm not that sure about the IGF1/HGH link. I understand that they don't test HGH directly because the tests are unreliable. But, when my IGF1 came back very low, my doctor said, 'oh, not surprising, that's because of low vit A, hypos usually have low vit A.' So, I said, 'is HGH caused by low vit A, too, then?' 'Oh, no,' he said. So, if my low vit A causes my low IGF1, then how do they know that my HGH is really low. Or am I missing something here?

But, if your HGH isn't low, then it's not that that's causing your poor conversion. Have you read the STTM list of possible causes of high rT3?

"Beta-blocker long-term use such as propranolol, metoprolol, etc. See this study.

Physical injury, a common cause of increased RT3

Illnesses like the flu, a common cause of increased RT3

Starvation/severe calorie restriction is known to raise RT3. See this study.

Diabetes when poorly treated is known to increase RT3. See this study.

Lyme disease

Cirrhosis of the liver (page 38 here)

Fatty liver disease

Any other liver stress

Renal Failure (page 38 here)

A fever of unknown cause (page 38 here)

Detoxing of high heavy metals"

And that's not a complete list. Frankly, it's a wonder everybody doesn't have high rT3!

[Advocate1 in reply to greygoose]

Well the reports I’ve read online have both people and doctors stating that treating NTI with thyroid hormone isn’t recommended. Then I also read how t3 only could be beneficial.

I’ve read reports where people have been on t3 only and felt like awful. Felt like they couldn’t think clearly and were unable to function for a bit of time until the t3 cleared.

Taking t3 only in the presence of Rt3 is truly a crapshoot, it may work for some, others not so much.

And I’ve read the list of possible euthyroid sick syndrome possibilities up and down. It never really feels like I fit any of the descriptions, no matter how many times I’ve read them over.

I truly wonder if I altered something genetically or if I damaged the tissue around my thyroid. Do I have resistance to thyroid hormone syndrome. It seems that the possibilities are endless.

[greygoose in reply to Advocate1]

Sorry, what is NTI?

I've just had a quick glance at your post posts, and I'm not sure I understand your concerns. Your rT3 wasn't that high.

It could be that T3 only isn't right for you, but from what you've said, T3+T4 didn't do you any good, either. And, T3 only, or reducing T4 and adding T3, will only 'cure' high rT3 is the cause of high rT3 is poor conversion. Your conversion isn't very good, admittedly, but your FT4 wasn't that high, and neither was your rT3.

However, your TSH was much lower than it should be, which would be why someone suggested Central Hypo - a problem with either the pituitary or the hypothalamus. What tests have your doctors don't to rule that out?

I also think it's Central Hypo, looking at your results. But, it is hypo, not just Euthyroid Sick Syndrome. And, it's certainly not rT3 causing your problems.

[Advocate1 in reply to greygoose]

i meant NTIS for non thyroidal illness syndrome.

And you might be looking at my latest bloodwork from when i got off thyroid medication.

Before i did thyroid medication, my tsh would fluctuate between 1.2-1.8 on any given test.

I don't know how my rt3 was before starting armour, but maybe it lowered rt3 a little. My free t4 is usually mid-high.

i havent read anything about central hypo and rt3 or poor conversion. Plus if it is indeed central hypo, how do you go about treating it if thyroid hormones arent the way to go about it persay.

[greygoose in reply to Advocate1]

I agree with diogenes. But, you have no proof that it is NTI. Who said it was? Your FT3 is very low, but your FT4 isn't great, either.

If it's Central Hypo, you treat it exactly the same as primary hypo - thyroid hormone replacement.

Have you posted your very latest results?

[diogenes Remembering in reply to Advocate1]

Taking T3 when having NTI is DEFINITELY not supported. NTI has caused a fall in T4-T3 conversion to protect the body in times of stress from unnecessary high levels of metabolism. A kind of "hibernation syndrome". Taking T3 will try to reverse this, when the body needs all the rest it can get.

[Dawid86 in reply to greygoose]

Hi, i am on t3 only from 9 months increasing my dose from 37mcg to 80 mcg last 2.5 months, my rt3 is still high, very high, i feel little bit better, but not a normal life!! Very tired and sleep so bad. My total and free testosterone are very high like a 19 years old man. My ft4 1.5month ago was 0.17 0.6-1.76. So how is it possible?!

[greygoose in reply to Dawid86]

Sorry, still don't have any answers for you - not that you will accept, anyway. I think it was all said in your last two posts.

[Catania1]

See my response in this thread starting with “I actually have a conversion problem too...”

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

Hope that helps!! Bottom line—taking T3 is NOT useless! Even 10 mcg will help (many are on small doses like that!). T3 is needed for so many things to work properly in your body (e.g., you can’t properly absorb the iron in your diet without adequate T3...and when you’re anemic, your body does what? It goes into panic mode and produces more RT3 (and less T3), creating a vicious cycle. It’s a crucial hormone.

[Advocate1 in reply to Catania1]

Thanks for the reply!

I don’t think taking t3 is useless but it’s also not a guarantee, like I said it’s probably 50/50.

Plus the reasons for thyroid conversion issues differ from person to person. My issue stemming from AAS might have a different effect with t3 then yours in which your deficiency is too much cooper.

Regardless it is something that I’m definitely considering. I’ll try to get a full panel of bloodwork for vitamins deficiency as well as my whole body. Plus I’ll try to get an mri just in case it’s a pituitary malfunction.

How often do you dose your t3? And what times of the day?

[Catania1 in reply to Advocate1]

I started on 10 mcg a day (one 5 mcg tab in the morning and a 2nd 5-mcg tab around 11 am—both on an empty stomach and away from iron supps for optimal absorption). My Free T3:RT3 ratio is still way below 20 (it should be at least 20 and mine is 10) so my doc increased my dose of T3 while we continue to address the underlying causes of my conversion problem. (Google “Stop the Thyroid Madness rt3 ratio” for more info on this.) Now I take 20 mcg a day (one 5 mcg tab at 7:30 am, two 5-mcg tabs around 9:30 am, and one 5-mcg tab around 11:30 am before I begin eating for the day at noon—I do 16/8 intermittent fasting to keep prediabetes at bay). In addition to copper overload (very common in women b/c estrogen causes copper retention—in fact, I highly recommend adding serum copper and zinc tests to your next labs, especially if you suffer from common symptoms of copper toxicity such as anxiety, depression, adhd, or cognitive decline—ratio of copper to zinc should be 1:1 for optimal brain health), my T4 —> T3 conversion problems are also due to severely low ferritin levels. Labs/docs will tell you that ferritin as low as 10 ng/ml is “normal,” but this is FAR from optimal, especially for thyroid health and hair growth). Ferritin measures your iron stores. In general, women need a ferritin level of at least 40 to stop hair loss and at least 80 for regrowth to begin. (Mine was 17!) And guess what? Without iron stores, your body can’t make T3. It’s all connected! More on this subject at Stop the Thyroid Madness website. (No connection to them personally—just learned a lot from that site and their books!)

[Advocate1 in reply to Catania1]

That actually seems early, dosing in the morning then 11:30. Doesn’t t3 lose its potency after several hours?

And do you actually feel better? My libido has been shot, and I know I need to get my t3 up if I want that to happen (though no other doctor seems to think so.)

I think I’ll try t3 again, maybe get up to 15-20mcg and stay there and see how it goes.

I know that t3 increase SHBG which isn’t ideal since mine is high. I’ll look to supplements with boron, maybe even proviron too and see how that goes.

[Catania1 in reply to Advocate1]

The T3 does wear off after a few hours, but I’ve found that if I take it with ANY food or supplements, I basically get no effect at all, so I stack mine in the morning while I’m fasting so I actually absorb what I’m taking (others may be different though and be able to absorb their T3 with food—I can tell I’m not absorbing it when I take it with food though because my temps don’t go up). T3 has helped my low libido for sure. Not 100% back to normal yet, but I actually find myself THINKING about sex sometimes now!! Wow!! What a concept right?? Lol. My ultimate goal is to fix the underlying causes of my conversion problem (excess copper, low ferritin, insulin resistance, possible infections) so that eventually I can wean off of the T3 as my body heals and goes back to making its own T3 (instead of converting my T4 to RT3). Best of luck!