Can depression and anxiety raise the tsh??

[ThyroidObsessed]

So... been hypo for 10 years now and after always feeling good on levo and also always having stable levels, all of a sudden 2 years ago my tsh shot up to 10 and ft4 still stayed at the top of range!! And at the same time this happened I got severe depression and anxiety... 5 endos later and still in the same boat high tag and top of range ft4... So was wondering if depression and anxiety can cause levels to do this, and if I took antidepressants would it help levels and symptoms.. I'm desperate now cannot cope anymore, I suffer mentally not physically....

[greygoose]

Not that I know of, no. But, it sounds like something has affected your conversion and you now have a low FT3 - unfortunately, ignorant doctors will never test it! Low T3 will cause symptoms like depression and anxiety. So, you really need to get your FT4 and FT3 tested at the same time, to see what's going on. You also need your nutrients tested, because low nutrients can cause poor conversion.

[ThyroidObsessed in reply to greygoose]

Thanks for your quick reply 😊...

To be honest they have been pretty good in testing my ft3, they test it every time they do the ft4 and tsh, and it stays around 4.66 (3.26 -6.8)... but they say its fine and just concentrate on trying to get my tsh down which then just pushes my ft4 higher and gives me weird mental side effects!.. all my vitamins are great I supplement and also eat liver once a week for my iron, and I have a great diet, currently training to be a nutritionist 😉

[greygoose in reply to ThyroidObsessed]

The FT3 is the most important number, so it's always good to give that when posting. If your FT4 is at the top of the range, and your FT3 is below mid-range - which it is - they you have a conversion problem. Your FT3 is too low for you. And just keep increasing the levo is not the solution because the higher the FT4 gets, the worse your conversion will get. Your TSH will come down when you reduce your levo a little and add in some T3. Your FT3 is not fine.

It doesn't matter how good your diet is, you're not what you eat, you're what you absorb. And hypos usually have a problem absorbing nutrients because they usually have low stomach acid.

[ThyroidObsessed in reply to greygoose]

Thank you... Yes this is what I thought, I'm hoping my next endo sees this too! 😏

[greygoose in reply to ThyroidObsessed]

We can always hope.

[shaws Administrator in reply to ThyroidObsessed]

I agree with greygoose that FT3/FT4 hav to be optimal - not just soewhere in range. Most of us are taking Betaine/pepsin tablets with meals and some take Apple Cider Vinegar in juice or water, for good digestion. I am sorry you are suffering with depression too, and low T3 can also be the cause plus, of course T3 can also be used for depression in those who don't have hypo.

[Hidden in reply to shaws]

I didn't know that! Isn't it dangerous because of the heart etc?

[shaws Administrator in reply to Hidden]

T3 is a hormone - and if we're hypo it is usually low in our blood. T4 (levo is an inactive hormone) T3 is the Active one needed in our millions of T3 receptor cells. It is not a 'medication' but an important hormone. Too much of course of any hormones most possibly may cause unpleasant symptoms i.e. have a fast pulse so keep and eye on pulse/temp and if either go too high, drop to previous dose.

[HughH in reply to Hidden]

Many doctors have the idea that taking T3 is dangerous to the heart etc. This is complete nonsense. Untreated hyperthyroidism or over medication to the extent that the heart is constantly racing is dangerous. Using T3 sensibly to overcome hypo symptoms is not dangerous.

The antidepressants and other meds given to those who are under medicated for their hypo are the real danger.

[Hidden in reply to HughH]

"Untreated hyperthyroidism or over medication to the extent that the heart is constantly racing is dangerous"

That's what I meant - that using T3 for depression on people who have normal thyroid levels might cause hyperthyroid symptoms

[HughH in reply to Hidden]

"normal thyroid levels"

Many people with "normal" thyroid blood tests have symptoms of hypothyroid, including depression. These people benefit from thyroid hormone medication.

The problem is that doctors rely too much on the blood tests and when symptoms are present they will attribute them to other causes such as depression, ME, Fibro etc.

[Hidden in reply to HughH]

Yes, that makes sense

[kferrer in reply to Hidden]

Studies show that it is not. Furthermore, thyroid cancer survivors who have to be on doses of thyroid hormone that suppress the TSH completely do not have any higher incidence of heart problems or osteoporosis that most other people. The major studies that linked thyroid hormone to atrial fibrilation were done on extremely unwell, elderly people.

[Teuchter]

Hi.

I have recently suffered a period of unbearable anxiety, caused by me "worrying myself sick", which is something I never really thought could happen, until I did it to myself.

This was caused by a TRIGGER: my brilliant stepdaughter hooked up with a guy who sounded bad, and it started to make me feel deeply uneasy.

After a couple of weeks, I started to feel nervous, jittery, only sleeping 2 or 3 hours a night, and hardly eating at all.

I THOUGHT Id messed up my tablets or so something: it felt like I was taking far too much thyroxine. I THOUGHT THESE WERE TWO SEPARATE PROBLEMS: but actually, the worry caused the physical symptoms.

After a terrible fortnight of feeling like a gun was pointed at my head 24/7, I had to STOP TAKING MY THYROXINE for two, weeks, until I calmed down a bit, and have only restarted on HALF my previous dose.

I suspect that the scare sent my adrenaline production through the roof (adrenals and thyroid work together).

I don't know if you've had such a trigger (you might not have CONNECTED it with your anxiety and thyroid problems, as I didn't at first), but I just thought I'd put my story out there in case it rings any bells.

All the Best

Geoff.

[Hidden]

You have written so many posts you certainly sound anxious why not try meditation they is probably a centre near you where you can learn it.

[ThyroidObsessed in reply to Hidden]

I continually do meditation every day to no avail, my depression and anxiety is not like your typical symptoms, mine are very strange indeed, even my therapist discharged me saying she could do no more as it's my unstable thyroid levels causing all the strange symptoms, and that she was gonna write to my end and explain this...

[jimh111]

Depression usually lowers TSH. There are some possibilities.

Your conversion seems to be very good because your fT3 is staying stable as your fT4 and TSH changes, this is how it should work. Pushing your fT4 higher will cause a switch from type-2 (D2) deiodinase to type-1 deiodinase(D1). You don't want this because D1 is a defence mechanism to prevent fT3 going too high. D2 takes place in the brain and other organs, it maintains the correct T3 levels in the brain.

Can you remember the sequence of events, did TSH shoot up before or after you got severe depression and anxiety?

Sometimes antibodies can interfere with TSH assays giving false high results. If you were fine and your depression / anxiety came on after your levothyroxine dose was increased as a result of a high TSH figure then it is quite likely you have been made thyrotoxic as a result of a misleading TSH assay. If this is a possiblity the doctor should talk to the biochemist and request a different assay. Your doctors should also monitor your pulse and other signs to see if you are clinically hypo or hyper. They shouldn't rely on the blood tests.

It's important to determine whether you have signs and symptoms of being under or over-active. Anxiety is a symptom usually associated with hyperthyroidism. If your pulse is rapid and strong you may be hyper. If it is weak and slow then hypo. You can try holding your hands out in front of you and looking for a fine tremor (hyper). Your doctors should have done these tests but they are often not carried out as the doctors become obsessed with the blood tests. They really need to work out whether your clinical presentation suggests hypo or hyper.

It's possible that you do have poor conversion and if so this is likely to be brought on by selenium deficiency. You could try supplementing with 200 mcg selenium for a few months to see if it restores your blood test results ... and makes you better!

If there are reasons for your severe depression and anxiety (life events) then I guess it's possible it is affecting your pituitary response but I've only heard of depression lowering TSH. You would need to discuss any antidepressive treatment with your doctor.

Another possibility is that your pituitary is putting out too much TSH because either it is not responding fully to thyroid hormone levels or there is something wrong with the pituitary such that it is over secreting. It would make sense for the endocrinologists to have measured other pituitary hormones to see if they are normal. If they haven't done this I would ask them why.

I think the best way forward is to get a clinical assessment of whether your signs and symptoms suggest hypo or hyper. Also look back and see if there was any life event that might have triggered depression at the time and also whether you had any kind of truama to the head which might have affected the pituitary.

[ThyroidObsessed in reply to jimh111]

Hi, no there was no trigger at all in fact it was Xmas eve when I just had a mental breakdown I went into a severe anxious depressive state it was He'll, my dose of levo had always been the same for 10 years, the only thing that changed was my levo brand, and my tsh shot up to 10 but ft4 was still top of range... 2 years later and every brand trialled I'm still in the same boat been up and down with doses even in 5mcg bits at a time, but to get my tsh down to below 1 like it always was, my ft4 always goes way over range to do this, and I have severe mental disturbances like paranoia and ocd it's horrible...

[shaws Administrator]

It is against the LAW for us to be refused to get a copy of our own blood test results. My surgery charges 30p a sheet. 'Normal' is not the same as Optimal - and ours have to be optimal.

[Hidden in reply to shaws]

It's also now illegal to charge, isn't it?

[shaws Administrator in reply to Hidden]

I am not sure as they might charge for paper/ink. There's a big difference between 30 pence and £10 as another surgery wanted from a member.

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

[Hidden in reply to shaws]

It seems as if my surgery is one of the better ones for that. If I ask the receptionist just prints out a copy on the spot, no question. I was really nervous the first time in case she refused. Very pleasantly surprised!

But as you say, 30p is next to nothing for ink and paper

[Highland49]

Hi ThyroidObsessed,

Do you know your vitamin B12 level before you started supplementing? It's quite common to have thyroid issues with B12 deficiency. The B12 deficiency support group charity has a good symptom checker on their webpage. As greygoose has mentioned, it's getting the nutrients absorbed that's the difficulty and if you lack the intrinsic factor to absorb B12, your cellular level will still be low. Supplements will falsely raise your blood level. Both under active thyroid and B12 deficiency can cause depression.

[ThyroidObsessed in reply to Highland49]

Hi yes I haven't supplemented b12 for about 8 months now, I eat liver once a week instead which has significantly raised my b12 folate and ferritin, I have never had a deficiency as at my lowest was 350 (120 - 800)...

[Highland49 in reply to ThyroidObsessed]

The serum blood test is not the best indicator of how much usable b12 you have in your body. Anything under 500 can cause symptoms. That's brilliant that you've not supplemented for all those months as, if you decide to have other tests done for pernicious anaemia, they should now be accurate.

I hope you get some relief from your symptoms soon.

[Dontdoit]

My physician told me stress definitely causes my levels to change and causes anxiety and depression. It’s the indo system and way it works. I recently had an emergency where my husband was hospitalized and I felt terrible, (hypo) she increased my dosage and I was better during this stressful time period.

I used to have anxiety attacks and be sad before being diagnosed with hypothyroidism...since taking my Levo and getting my levels right it’s all gone, except when put under great stress.

Just giving you my experience with hypothyroidism and anxiety.

[Dragon5]

I began eating 4-6 Brazil nuts a day for Selenium and Zinc (too many will create toxicity; I’ve read some eat 3 to be safe; I also refrigerate them). I took store bought supplements for those nutrients for a while, but worried about proper balances, as they have to be in balance with other nutrients or can be an issue. Nutrient specific food is a great way to keep the balance. I think this has really helped and I’m feeling pretty good. I’ve also gone to a low-to-moderate carb and gluten-free, processed food-free, caffeine-free, high vegetable/fruit diet. I cut out alcohol except for an occasional glass of wine. I drink chamomile tea with honey. I’m eating whole eggs as they have the proper balance of nutrients needed for hypothyroidism as do oysters and other specific seafoods. Liver once a week is also said to be helpful. I take a high quality refrigerated probiotic, digestive enzymes, apple cider vinegar tablets, Magnesium Citrate, turmeric, fish oil, B-Complex, Vitamin C, D-3 5000 iu and an Alive multivitamin. I’m on 60 mg of Amor Thyroid. Exercise helps. I really feel a lot better when I’m hiking outdoors...the vitamin D has an amazing impact. I’m hoping to lower my supplement intake with this food and outdoor exposure/exercise regimen.

[Dragon5 in reply to Dragon5]

And yes, in answer to your question, if my system is off, it triggers other issues and changes in my environment (life stress, travel, seasonal, food access) affect how my thyroid is regulated.

[Hidden]

I definitely would NOT recommend meditation to anyone for anything ThyroidObsessed

[Lily288]

I have to agree with Geoff's letter below because I too had not connected my anxiety or worry that had caused my TSH to shoot up. Well it did and also fear and worry does cause our body to react with all kinds of weird symptoms and will no doubt also affect the adrenals/thyroid to go whacky.

However, I did not stop taking my Levo that I'd been on for years completely, but I rather lowered my dosage. I remember my doctor wanted to up my dosage but I told her that I had cut it down because I'd gone hyper!? ( I thought I'd turned hyper but the thing is, it turns out my Levo dosage was too high.). What was causing my anxiety does not matter but it was an intense situation. I know that worry can make you sick in many ways and no doubt does cause our adrenal to mess with our thyroid problems. So, I cut down to half my dosage and voila, I began to feel better physically and I then later, I cut my dosage down to a quarter of my dosage. I felt much better but most importantly I had been working on my problem because it is imperative to do so. Somehow recognizing our worries will help our body adjust. It's amazing how our body is affected by our emotions.

I suggest though, that we should not yield or add to our worry by having our doctors prescribe us antidepressant or any other pills. One reason is that they'll interfere with your thyroid dosage so that'll worsen or complicate our initial problem. And also, we should not start adding more worry by what we eat or not eat because the thing is that, it is the worry and anxiety that was causing your problem in the first place.

[ThyroidObsessed]

It seems i was pushed over the edge and now I'm in a mental institution ☹

[lucylocks in reply to ThyroidObsessed]

Are you, if so I am so sorry to hear that.

Please let us know how you are.