I’m currently taking 200mcg cynomel but I’m not losing any weight. Dr Morris who has since retired advised I could take up to 150mcg 2 or 3 x a day.
I used to take ndt but I struggled with weight issues then too. I do not eat enough to be putting on weight so I know it’s definitely not my diet.
What can I do to lose weight? I’m tempted to keep increading t3. I know I will get replies saying this is not a weight loss drug but I know of many people who took high doses & lost weight.
I’m due to have my adrenals checked too as it’s been just over a year since my last test which stated my cortisol levels were high throughout the day.
I currently take blue bonnet 27mg iron capsules x 4. Today I started taking D3 too & have ordered b12 as I was a little low in that.
Thank you
Written by
Hippyhappy234
To view profiles and participate in discussions please or .
200 mcg is a very large dose, especially as you did well on much lower doses before. Liothyronine is not for weight loss, it's wrong to abuse it. Are you sure you are not eating a lot? It's very easy to snack and have calories you don't notice. On the other hand I would not advocate excessive dieting.
More important is to get a good amount of exercise, not short intensive sessions but regular movement throughout the day. Excessive thyroid hormone, particularly T3 causes long term cardiac damage that shows up in later life as atrial fibrillation and stroke. It's a question of getting your thyroid hormone levels right, the minimum dose to resolve hypothyroid signs and symptoms and then adressing weight gain as a separate issue.
Jim111 you should really not parrot scare tactics about T3 without giving evidence to support your views. Ask the knowledgeable admins on here about why you shouldn’t over exercise - experience will tell you that your T3 levels will crash if you overdo it! As for telling people who are suffering from Hypo weight gain that they should watch what they are eating is standard GP speak that goes along with “ take exercise” when they have no answers for struggling patients. That is why they have to come here to get answers
lidoplace, Are you honestly saying excess thyroid hormone does not lead to atrial fibrillation (AF)? Honestly, you have never seen any research? I don't present evidence for every assertion because it would take too long and if we all did this the forum would become unreadable. I would expect you to check through PubMed for studies before challenging someone to present evidence, this is what I do, if I can't find evidence it makes sense to ask.
This study bmj.com/content/345/bmj.e7895 shows increased risk of AF with even mild hyperthyroidism. The Rotterdam Study also shows significant increased incidence of AF academic.oup.com/jcem/artic... . Note that the risk is increased as we get older (which we all hope to do). I have seen other studies demonstrating higher risk but do not have them to hand. I'm surprised you were not aware of the risk of AF in thyrotoxicosis.
These studies tend to focus on fT4 levels as fT3 is often not measured. The heart has limited diodinase capability and so responds primarily to circulating T3, so these studies do to an extent rely on fT4 giving a reflection of fT3 levels. In the case of high fT3 levels (from L-T3 therapy) we can expect a much greater increase in risk of AF and consequential stroke.
As regard exercise I wrote 'More important is to get a good amount of exercise, not short intensive sessions but regular movement throughout the day.' I think recommending regular movement during the day is sensible, especially when I cautioned against intensive exercise. T3 levels do NOT crash after exercise - where's the evidence? If they did some patients would run to the doctor's surgery to get their T3 levels down! You may tire and feel bad after too much exercise but it doesn't affect T3 levels to any noticable extent. It will deplete various metabolic substances which are subject to thyroid hormone action.
Most Important. I got the impression that Hippyhappy234 recovered on much lower doses of L-T3. That these very large doses were introduced not to resolve hypothyroid symptoms but purely for weight loss. L-T3 should not be used for weight loss.
The Danish paper is indeed impressive. My BP definitely increases with my T3 intake, but after 10 years post TT I do not have AF (I'm on 1.5grains of Armour NDT btw). The problem I have thought a lot about (after my TT and studying the subject) is: do I want to spend my last 20 years as a non functioning hypothyroid person feeling ill everyday, having pain every time I stand up and walk even from one room to the next, needing to lean on a supermarket cart when I go shopping and falling asleep with exhaustion every hour or will I settle for 15 years of normality, dropping dead from a heart attack perhaps five years earlier? I have chosen the latter. I've made it through 10 years of feeling even more than normal, I feel very well, I am fitter than many of my "normal" neighbors who are 10 years younger than I. For what it is worth, many of my normal neighbors say they have AF "now and again", well, I don't!
It's a good paper, thanks for posting it, I learned a lot and now I'm off to discover how to do a Poisson distribution regression model - I never really thought about one of those, that will give me hours of entertainment.
Yes, it's all about balancing risks and benefits. There are risks with doing nothing, this is often overlooked. Being able to exercise can compensate for potential risks from treatment, provided sensible dosing is used.
i gained 6 stone in 2 years after TT i had always been slim, strong and fit, always had healthy diet so there was no reason for my weight gain except thyroid. After some years of trying and failing i started t3 only as very high RT3 and did low carb. I have lost 3 stone but still have 3 stone to go and it is excruciatingly slow. I have very low cortisol which makes daily exercise counter productive so i just walk and do gardening. I think as with thyroid there is a lot more in play regarding weight, my hormones are completely disrupted and hormones play a huge part in weight. I take 75-100mcg of t3 i have taken more but feel no additional benefit so reduced.
I know people who take high doses but that is what it takes to get rid of their hypo symptoms. If you are symptom free and it is just a weight issue, i dont think more t3 will help. You need to get to the bottom of why you are not losing weight, we are all different and will all lose weight in diff ways. Research your body type, what foods you crave as that will show you the under lying deficiencies. Gluten free makes huge difference to many of us. Is it fat all over, is it unpincable (mucin hypo fat in which case diet makes no difference) is it belly fat in which case its is adrenal/cortisol and extra t3 wont help. You need to do some research. I wish you luck it is depressing not being able to lose weight xxx
Whilst I think it prudent to separate T3 and iron, do you have any proper research to show that? I have found very little published research on things that interfere with T3. (Lots to do with T4. But T4 and T3 are different enough to make it important to have checked them individually.)
there is info on it but do not have it saved, it is up to the individual to do their own research. People who know a lot more than me are always very insistent on iron being 4 hours away, anything that may hinder absorption is worth looking at as it could result in needing a lower dose if t3 being utilised better x
I separate iron and anything else I take from my t4 and T3 doses just to be on the safe side.
@Hippyhappy234 After a whole winter of extreme stress I have put on a stone in weight around my belly which raising my T3 didnt help as a lot of it is fluid. However it did help some of my symptoms. We recently had to make the heartbreaking decision to have one of out dogs pts, and that knocked me right off kilter for a month or more. I also react badly to dull grey weather. I had symptoms of high cortisol for a long time because of stress too. There is so much that affects it.
My last thyroid tests were on the low side for me and I am definitely still showing hypo symptoms, but my cortisol seems to be levelling out a bit now, so long as I can control stress levels. My fluid retention is slowly improving.
I have found that low carb high fat high protein (dietdoctor) is helpful, avoid caffeine, sweeteners, gluten and soya too.
On edit; whatever you do won't be a quick fix, thats the infuriating bit. Just monitor your vitals and make sure they're within normal ranges for you and try to keep your stress levels low. I stressed like hell that my waist size had increased by 8” and I looked 6 months pregnant. But it just made things worse.
So sorry to hear about your dog. My beloved bull terrier is in her last weeks/month (kidney problem) she is extremely old 13 years which for the english bull terrier is very old but it doesnt make the decision to pts any easier knowing she is so old and had a wonderful life. It still knocks us as we are so bonded to them xx
So sorry to hear that. Our boxer girl was only ten, which is no age compared with most of the dogs weve had. She was suffering from degenerative myelopathy and watching her get worse over the winter and knowing there was nothing we could do has been horrendous. Its rare in boxers and had to be mine that developed it. Its not painful but i am sure that it affected her mentally as it got worse. Thats why we decided to let her gp when we did xx
I believe that if you take T3 first you should absorb it within one hour, so then you can take iron, (and then leave 4 hours until next T3 dose). I have no research to support that, but it has been recommended on here by admins and is the only way that you can take everything that you need to be okay if you are T3 only (and therefore need frequent doses of T3). The jury is still out on sublingual I think..
My daughter takes really high doses of t3 and is still not optimised. I think I first read on this forum that if you take 150mcg or more without adverse affects, high heart rate etc, then you may have a thyroid hormone resistance issue. Check out papers by the late Dr J Lowe.
Yes my endo is realising that i am thyroid resistant. I can take mine at night and sleep which he is amazed by, also my SHBG is 58 (70-90) shows good t3 cell saturation, so even after 2 years t3 only my cells have yet to be optimum. I dont feel any better or worse on 150 or 100 but as shbg so low i have to start increasing again, not helped by my low cortisol 95 (150-550). Its a minefield.
SHBG reflects the action of TRB1 receptors which are present in the liver and other tissues. It's a marker for thyroid hormone action like cholesterol is. SHBG reference intervals are very wide and vary between pre / post menopausal women and men. So, SHBG is just one factor which gives a clue to thyroid hormone action, one bit of the overall picture. SHBG gives a rough indication of thyroid hormone activity levels in tissues expressing TRB1 receptors such as the liver and kidneys. It gives no information about other tissues primarily expressing TRA1 receptors such as the heart and brain. I don't know of a straighforward reference that succintly explains all this, you would have to do a lot of studying on the principles of thyroid hormone action and the role of thyroid hormone receptors.
Actually Jim it is a very good indicator of whether t3 is working on a cellular level and unlike t3 tests can not be manipulated. Good cellular saturation shows a level between 70-90 it is not a reliable test for men or women on HRT otherwise it is the only test that explains why some people have good thyroid tests but still feel hypo and unwell. It has been spot on for large number of t3 only people, especially for showing up over medication in those that drop their dose 7 days before to get the tsh they desire.
this is part of the paper;
SHBG: Regulator and Indicator
The endocrine system, which encompasses hormone functioning, is known for its synchronicity. Yet factors such as stress, diet, pharmaceuticals, and environmental toxins can all disrupt hormonal balance. Because of its integral role as a hormone transporter, SHBG can be used as an indicator of how the system is functioning.
The role of SHBG is to protect regulate, and transport sex hormones, estrogen and testosterone. Produced primarily in the liver, SHBG binds to the hormones and shuttles them to tissues in body. When bound to SHBG the hormone, i.e. estrogen, it isn’t “free” or available. It’s important for the body to maintain the right amount of available estrogen, relative to the bound estrogen, as well as to the other hormones. Balance and synchronicity are key. An imbalance, along with low SHBG levels is frequently found in conditions with low thyroid transport (previously listed).
SHBG production responds to thyroid and estrogen hormones, which is why it’s considered to be a good indicator of thyroid tissue levels. In general it is a better marker for women than men. If estrogen levels are satisfactory, SHBG can act as a marker for tissue levels of T3 unless a woman is taking oral estrogen hormone replacement therapy (HRT). In this case, SHBG levels will elevate in response to increased estrogen levels in the liver caused by metabolizing the HRT. SHBG testing would therefore not be a true indicator, unless transdermal patches or creams are used. Simply put, SHBG levels impact estrogen and estrogen affects the thyroid. Thyroid hormones also affect SHBG levels by increasing its production and often diminishing free estrogen. Confused? Here is a gauge:
SHBG for women with adequate estrogen levels should be above 70 nmol/L, and men above 25 nmol/L. For those using thyroid replacement and are below these SHBG levels, it can signify ineffective treatment. SHBG levels are expected to increase when thyroid hormone medications are implemented.
Oh dear! I googled some of this text to see what on earth this 'paper' is. It is not a peer reviewed study or review. It's not published in a respected journal. It's a commentary by Kent Holtorf of the 'National Academy of Hypothyroidism'. Unfortunately, this guy writes a lot of stuff that is riddled with errors, in particular his comments on deiodinase. The references he cites are not specific to his assertions (which they should be), rather they just happen to be in the same vague arena. I would advise you to ignore comments from this source as they have too many inaccuracies to be of any use and only serve to confuse.
For example, he states 'SHBG can act as a marker for tissue levels of T3'. SHBG levels very roughly reflect T3 ACTIVITY (not saturation) in cells that express TRB1 receptors. SHBG doe not reflect tissue levels, it reflects activity, specifically in the liver and it is not a precise marker. SHBG has wide reference intervals and can only give an approximate guide to thyroid hormone action in certain tissues, just like cholesterol levels do. The brain and heart predominately express TRA1 receptors, so SHBG will tell you little about thyroid hormone status in these rather important organs.
The interest in SHBG came about when Sam Refetoff discovered resistance to thyroid hormone (RTH) ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/628... . (RTH is now the official term for what Refetoff originally referred to as 'thyriod hormone resistance'). This form of RTH is caused by genetic mutations of the TRB gene which is responsible for creation of TRB1 and TRB2 thyroid receptors. Holtorf seems to think SHBG is a marker for the presence of thyriod hormone in cells when in fact it is a marker for thyroid hormone activity in the liver (which expresses TRB1 receptors). SHBG is used to monitor patients with RTH as a marker for activity in tissues expressing TRB1 receptors, some of these receptors are mutated in these patients. It gives a clue to the magnitude to which TRB1 receptors are affected in these patients.
I don't know where Holtorf gets 'SHBG for women with adequate estrogen levels should be above 70 nmol/L, and men above 25 nmol/L' from, it would depend upon the assay. As an example the reference interval for men is 13 - 71 nmol / L and for women 18 - 114 nmol / L. See homerton.nhs.uk/our-service... . So clearly if a cut off of 70 nmol / L was used it would imply most healthy women in the population would be hypothyroid and would require massive doses of thyroid hormone to get their SHBG above 70 nmol / L. There are many influences on SHBG such as age and BMI. SHBG is a rough guide to thyroid hormone activity in certain tissues.
If you happen to be someone with naturally low SHBG levels and erroneously attempt to raise your SHBG above 70 nmol / L with thyroid hormone you run the risk of serious long term cardiac damage.
The source is my endo is who is a highly respected endo and one of the few good ones in uk, he is far more knowledgeable than us and as he uses it as a back up test when no explanation to hypo symptoms with good thyroid test results it indeed does explain low cell saturation. He routinely uses this test on all his thyroid patients because it works and is an excellent marker for thyroid resistance, I am a case in point. You do like to trot out the old cardiac scare Jim you are as bad as some endo's. It has nothing to do with genetic mutations it is just a simple test to show cell saturation. If it works, it works and requires no peer reviewed paper and lets face it most peer reviewed papers are utter tosh, as is your explanation here. Most thyroid papers are riddled with tosh, you only have to read through the BTA papers to know that. I do not need a peer reviewed paper or double blind tests for me to know the sun is shinning today. All this nonsense about proof just falls flat when it comes to thyroid issues as there is very little study done on any of it. You are nit picking for the sake of it.
SHBG reflects thyroid hormone activity (not 'cell saturation') in the liver. The whole point about resistance to thyroid hormone is that whilst the recetors (not the cells) are sufficiently saturated they do not respond. It may be that you are misunderstanding what your doctor is saying. SHBG is a useful marker when taken to together with other markers such as cholesterol, ankle reflex, dry skin, carotenemia, pulse strengh and heart rate. A good doctor will monitor most of these and use them to evaluate the patient's status.
If there is resistance to thyroid hormone it is essential to know which type of receptors are affected - TRB1 or TRA1. If it is in TRB1 receptors (as reflected in SHBG) then care has to be taken because the heart has TRA1 receptors and so will not be affected. If sufficient hormone is given to make the liver euthyroid then the heart will be thyrotoxic. There has to be a cautious approach and perhaps a degree of compromise. SHBG is just one of many markers and not very specific.
I think you either dont read posts or misunderstand. My endo does shbg as JUST ONE of the tests he does. There is a big difference between your reading a paper and understanding a paper Jim. Most of the good news in thyroid is anecdotal, if it was fact there would be clear path of recovery for all of us! you may do better focusing on the positive not the negative. You are trying to over complicate a very simple thing.
SHBG was a piece of the puzzle that has helped me and it may help someone else understand what may be going on with their symptoms.
Perhaps you didn't but Holtorf implies it is ('SHBG for women with adequate estrogen levels should be above 70 nmol/L') and I mistakenly thought you were advocating his views.
No if you read my post i am advocating my endos views, who see's shbg as a valuable test when people on t3 only still have symptoms.
Instead of just being negative Jim why dont you add something helpful. This is a help forum, where we tell of our own experience in the hope it may help someone else. Add something constructive of your own experience, dont just copy and paste stuff you have read on the internet it is not helpful.
I've have not copied and pasted anything. I've previously listed SHBG as one of a number of markers that can give an indication of thyroid hormone action.
I don't know your age or gender, but T3 can interfere with oestrogen which can cause weight gain. I have tried to understand how this works, but haven't understood it yet! (Admins?)
I seem to need 150, but don't seem to be at my sweet spot. And have definitely not had weight loss, but 'just' reduction in hypo symptoms.
Don't forget that your body can go into famine mode if you are not eating enough and it will desperately try to hold on to fat.
(I have my own batty theory that those of us who struggle with our weight would be the survivors and have genes that cause this to happen, so that we could survive famine etc.)
Perhaps slowly reduce and see if you get any weight loss when you get to a more normal level?
I had been taking ferrous fumarate daily for years, much to the shock of my doctor, because my iron was still really low, so she said that I should take 3 tablets of iron, and once I did that I lost 7lbs of water in 5 days. It then took more than 6 months (if I remember correctly) for my ferritin to raise to about 70 from its previous 12, so it was still taking a long time!
I can waffle on when I know something about a subject (which gets up people's noses 'cos I can go on a bit 😂) but I can't waffle much about something I don't know about so I can't pretend and wouldn't make anything up, so I thought short and sweet was best. And as I'm only used to 25mcg T3 myself, 200mcg sounds a bit scary 😯
As you can see, sometimes I can't help it, and have a bout of verbal diarrhoea, comes of living on your own with just a dog, no conversation (well, just a one-sided one) so when an opportunity comes along you take it and talk.... and talk.....
SS, I can't believe you ever irritate folk. The very knowledgeable regulars here like yourself are a Godsend to me. I live and work away from my husband for weeks at a time and have found the advice, knowledge, humour and sociability of this forum compelling. I actually dread the day when I am at peace with my Hashi body and no longer have a question. May you continue to 'waffle' and engage in 'verbal diarrhoea' for years to come!
When you are at peace with your Hashi's and don't have any questions, you will have to continue to come here and pass on all your knowledge, sharing experiences helps us all
No MissFG I had a stock of Unipharma and have gone back on that, I prefer it but not sure what I'll do when that runs out. Maybe try Tiromel then, hopefully there'll be no problems like there has been with Unipharma.
I stocked up on the Unipharma before the current fiasco so got it at the early 2017 prices. No idea what anyone is charging now, surprised it's even available but if anyone does have it then I expect they're cashing in on the situation.
Can I confirm, is Cynomel a T3 medication or a T4 medication?
I have only a partial non working gland, (born with it) so have been on medication all my life, currently on 200 mcg of T4 thyroxine and 20 mcg of T3 Lithyronine.
I have also been advised to not take iron at the same time as my T4/T3 medication as it does not absorb well. So take thyroid medication in the morning and iron at night. During the day, I have to take to a diuretic as I suffer with oedema and also vitamin D medication.
Now, many moons ago when I was in my 30's, my then GP told me I was over prescribed and took me off the 200 mcg of T4 and said no more than 75 mcg! which started a whole catalyst of problems. The reason being is that a Dr in the private sector had so say been struck off for giving Thyroxine out as a slimming agent and that it had caused heart problems! That too much thyroxine is bad for your heart, but if your dose was too low they would give you the higher dose anyway, which completely contradicted what she was trying to do and say and also had no relevance to me. After many years, I am back on my 200 mcg of T4 and added 20 mcg of T3. But a lot of permanent damage had already been done especially to my legs due to oedema. I also gained 10lb each year for the next twelve years due to the messing around of my medication. Never had weight problems prior to my original dose being dropped. I am told now to take responsibility for my weight.
Anyway getting back to the point and what I am trying to say.... I am very alarmed if you have been advised that you could possibly could increase your dose that much without consequence. I would therefore advise you to seek a second opinion. It is like with any drug, taken in large doses, that it has the potential of harming your organs especially your heart.
I personally do not think that taking more will help with weight loss, however safe monitoring of your dose and making sure you are on the correct dose, will help you.
My current dose of 200 mcg allows me to lose weight even with mobility issues, but we are all different. My dose is higher than most as I do not have any thyroid function whereas some people need a little help to top up their thyroid function. One pill does not suit all.
I do believe a calorie controlled diet is the best option / even the Ketogenic eating plan as it will give you all the calories and fat content needed for each meal. I can lose weight quite well, but due to the oedema, it does fluctuate.
I am not saying that anyone is over eating, but sometimes, we are surprised that what we think is a portion size, may not be the recommended portion size for certain foods. At the end of the day, if we eat too many calories, even if we do not realise, we may not burn them off or find it hard to burn off if we are too tired to be active, so hence weight gain. I think it is common sense at the end of the day and also making sure you are on the correct dose of medication. I also suffer with severe pain in my lower back.
Do what is right for your body and seek a second opinion.
Are you just taking the T3 and no T4? Have you been on T4 in the past? Perhaps you need to take some T4 as well instead of all the T3,sometimes it's about balancing it. I wouldn't see T3 as a weight loss drug.
Personally I lost weight when I had a bigger amount of T4 only, instead of my current mix of T4 and T3,and put it back on again when I went back with the combination.The only problem with me on T4 only was that it pushed up my blood pressure and gave me palpitations.
WOW ! It's so true . I'm not alone ! That's exactly what happened with me . On T4 Only I was able to loss weight easier than with combo T4 and NDT . How ever like you I had palpitations and blood pressure was higher too and with low dose NDT for my T3 helped with those issues . Personally I think but not sure that the reason for that is that our adrenals and cortisol levels where off and had to pick up the slack for not getting direct T3 . There must be some connections .
I had TT so I need some T3 from NDT for my T4 mix . I think and I'm sure that someone on the forum that has more knowledge with this that T3 can give us insulin resistance when high .
Content on HealthUnlocked does not replace the relationship between you and doctors or other healthcare professionals nor the advice you receive from them.
Never delay seeking advice or dialling emergency services because of something that you have read on HealthUnlocked.
T3 only - dose?
High cortisol hashimotos hypothyroid high B12 high magnesium T4 T3 Cushings? Help
Equivalent dose of t3
T3 due to high RT3
