Antibodies 77 and TSH 8? Ashwaghanda and Iodine started this.

Hi everyone, I have Hashimoto's and TSH went from 3 to 7 after taking too much ashwaghanda and antibodies are 77. I was given levothyroxine but I'm on the thin side so I wanted to wait and try to see if my thyroid would normalize since I started the issue with overdoing the thyroid and adrenal supplements. Any thoughts ? Free T3 and T4 are low normal.

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  • Can you explain more about taking to much Ashwaghanda? I know what the herb is, but am curious as to how you knew your dose of it was too high? Also what do you mean you "went from 3 to 7".

    We share the same condition and I find myself continuously self-altering my dose of thyroid med (in between blood draws), because of fluctuating energy levels. After decades, still wrestling with it.

    LCS

  • Hi there, well my TSH has been holding around 3 for a year after weaning off armour and hydrocortisone for adrenal fatigue but I also have Lyme disease so I had a bad flare up in May and took a lot of ashwaganda and green powders and extra selenium and I caused a bad thyroid issue. Started seeing flashing lights and my TSH was 0.007 and Free T3 was way over the level. Reduced all supplements and crashed the other way. Now I'm so tired all the time just wanna sleep all day. But I am struggling to keep my normal weight on. I was hoping the antibodies would come down since I created this mess but over 3 months they are still at 77-80. And the TSH is slowing rising. I am very intrigued how I was able to lower it with the Ashwaghanda and read many others that have but now with the antibodies I'm a bit perplexed. I have new labs pending now. I have armour and levo and I'm just waiting to see these next labs. I have very weak adrenals too so I'm very concerned how I'll be able to handle the thyroid hormones. They've always made me feel better for a few days then I crash hard. It's been going on since 2012 when I received 4 cortisone shots and my adrenals shut down. I'm 53 now. Just want a little energy! lol

  • Also I'm in sunny Northern California USA. I heard that Nature-throid is a good choice. The only one I don't have. 😙

  • Oh, wow. Your descriptions hit home. Most others I know who are hyp-t are on an even keel with their dose. I've been riding a slow-mo. roller coaster for years with fluctuations that are puzzling.

    I take sublingual adrenal cortex (with thyroid med), when I start to feel myself sliding down that "slippery slope". I admit I alter my dose in between blood draws, but often feel like I'm behind the curve. Emotional and physical survival require a constant internal vigil. I'm getting better at sensing changes and acting on them...so the highs and lows aren't quite as extreme as in the past.

    Currently I'm entertaining the possibility of seeing a homeopath, since more than one organ/system is involved. My lifestyle an diet definitely are not culprits here.

    Not sure if you're game, but one at-home remedy that does help when the going is rough, is a little yoga, or stretching/breathing (the hard part is kicking myself in the pants to just do it, at those times). Lowers stress and evens out the energy level.

    Thanks again, best of luck and...

    keep educating yourself!

    LCS

  • I think that is a good idea. I've been seeing a homeopath for 4 yrs. I was in bed for 2 years before I saw her. I also take adrenal support and support all other systems with nutritional help. My diet is fairly good but lately I don't have the energy to devote all my heart into it. With the new Hashimoto's label, finding gluten free foods for the norm is a bit of a challenge since I love my organic granola and fiber based products. It is so tiring to deal with this. I usually have more good days but not in the past couple of months or so. Getting hard friend.

  • Hey, there! I am in Northern CA as well. I have Hashi's, and am being treated/monitored by a naturopath. I'm feeling pretty good at the moment, and am doing gluten free as well. Little to no sugar, very minimal grains in general. Also low dairy. It's more doable for us where we live. A lot of options in CA.

  • Awesome! Are you on any thyroid med?

  • Yes, 75mg levothyroxine and 17.5 T3 (compounding pharm). My last labs are pretty much suppressed thyroid, but, I def do not feel hyper. Still feel somewhat hypo, and metabolism is still pretty much in reverse! My antibodies are way higher than yours, btw. I'm working on that with diet, and LOTS of naturopathic supplements for now.

  • I don't suppose the ashwagandha had anything to do with your antibodies. They fluctuate all the time. I think you should be more concerned about your TSH, because it's much too high. You are hypo. And all the time you have that high TSH stimulating your thyroid, it's also going to - indirectly - stimulate the Hashi's attacks.

    And a Hashi's attack was what was responsible for your TSH dropping to 0.007, and FT3 going over-range. Because the dying cells dump their store of hormone into the blood, causing levels to temporarily soar. You really need to keep you TSH suppressed, but your FT3 in range, to avoid the attacks. But, to do that, you will have to take thyroid hormone replacement of some kind.

    What about the iodine, mentioned in your title? If you are hypo/Hashi's, it really isn't recommended to take iodine, you could make yourself a lot worse.

  • I backed off from the kelp powder a few months back. M y free T3 T4 or low normal now. Did you see my TSH was 4 then went to .007? Or something then back to 2.? And now it's 8. It's still not steady due to the storm the supplements created. I'll get results any day for what it is now. Just trying to figure out what type of med to take is stressful with my weak Adrenals.

  • The supplements didn't create the storm, the Hashi's did. That's what Hashi's does.

    So, what are you doing about your weak adrenals?

  • I take adrenal support from Standard Process foods. Drenemin and multivitamin and C and B complex and homeopathy drops.

  • So what should I try first? The armour or the levo?

  • If you have the opportunity to try Armour, go for the Armour first. But, do be aware that it doesn't suit everybody, anymore than levo does.

  • Adrenal support from Standard Process foods is not the best you could take. Too many adrenal stimulants! Be very wary of things that call themselves 'supports'. They are more likely to be stimulants, and the last thing your adrenals want at the moment, is stimulation. You'd be better off with a plain glandular, like Adrenavive.

    Multivitamins are a waste of time and money, you won't get anything out of them.

    Taking C and a B complex is good. Also make sure you get plenty of salt. Adrenals need salt.

    I, personally, have no faith in homeopathy for the endocrine system. Whilst it may be good for many other things, I've found it does nothing where hormones are concerned.

  • What meds do you take? What level is your antibodies at? I heard many try to keep them under 100. So wasn't sure how bad the labs really are.

  • 1bravegirl,

    What are your FT3 and FT4 results and ranges?

  • Let me get the copy. One second Clutter.

  • T3, Free

    2.7 pg/mL

    Date:Aug 10, 2017 05:46 p.m. PDT

    Reference Range:2.3 pg/mL - 4.2 pg/mL

    This was during the storm I created

    4.7 pg/mL (High)

    Date:Jun 09, 2017 12:04 p.m. PDT

    Reference Range:2.3 pg/mL - 4.2 pg/mL

    Show more info

    5.9 pg/mL (High)

    Date:May 19, 2017 08:20 a.m. PDT

    Reference Range:2.3 pg/mL - 4.2 pg/mL

    This was before it went all haywire

    2.7 pg/mL

    Date:Aug 10, 2016 12:23 p.m. PDT

    Reference Range:2.3 pg/mL - 4.2 pg/mL

    Show more info

    2.8 pg/mL

    Date:Feb 05, 2016 11:20 a.m. PST

    Reference Range:2.3 pg/mL - 4.2 pg/mL

    Show more info

    2.6 pg/mL

    Date:Nov 27, 2015 02:55 p.m. PST

    Reference Range:2.3 pg/mL - 4.2 pg/mL

    Show more info

    2.8 pg/mL

    Date:Apr 08, 2015 10:56 a.m. PDT

  • FT4 0.74 ng/dL

    Date:Aug 10, 2017 05:46 p.m. PDT

    Reference Range:0.58 ng/dL - 1.42 ng/dL

    Show more info

    1.26 ng/dL

    Date:Jun 09, 2017 12:04 p.m. PDT

    Reference Range:0.58 ng/dL - 1.42 ng/dL

    Show more info

    1.66 ng/dL (High)

    Date:May 19, 2017 08:20 a.m. PDT

    Reference Range:0.58 ng/dL - 1.42 ng/dL

    Before the storm

    0.74 ng/dL

    Date:Feb 07, 2017 03:10 p.m. PST

    Reference Range:0.58 ng/dL - 1.42 ng/dL

    Show more info

    0.78 ng/dL

    Date:Sep 01, 2016 11:42 a.m. PDT

    Reference Range:0.58 ng/dL - 1.42 ng/dL

    Show more info

    0.67 ng/dL

    Date:Aug 10, 2016 12:23 p.m. PDT

    Reference Range:0.58 ng/dL - 1.42 ng/dL

    Show more info

    0.74 ng/dL

    Date:Jun 20, 2016 02:40 p.m. PDT

    Reference Range:0.58 ng/dL - 1.42 ng/dL

  • 1bravegirl,

    FT3 2.7 (2.3 - 4.2) is low and FT4 0.74 (0.58 - 1.42) is also low. Antibodies 77 isn't particularly high but simply having antibodies means your thyroid has been under attack.

    I would take 50mcg Levothyroxine or 45mg NDT to see whether improving thyroid levels improves symptoms and reduces antibodies.

  • Even if my weight is a struggle to maintain? Won't it make me more thin? I felt like I lost muscle during the thyroid storm so now I'm trying to hold onto my normal 146 weight. I have no appetite til the evening but it has been so hot here as well for months. I had an Ultrasound as well that was normal. I heard armour Is not good for Hashimoto's due to the gluten? Do I have Hashimoto's if I created this mess?

  • 1bravegirl,

    Thyroid replacement shouldn't make you lose weight if you don't overmedicate. If you aren't eating during the day that will be why you are losing weight. I was advised to eat frequent small meals to maintain weight. I found protein shakes in between meals helpful too.

    High TPO means you have Hashimoto's. Ashwaghanda didn't cause Hashimoto's. It's more likely Hashi's caused temporary hyperthyroidism after a flare and then thyroid levels swung the other way.

    Armour is fine for hundreds of thousands Hashimoto's patients.

  • It would seem to be the case, but I didn't have any antibodies until I took an over abundance of supplements and then started having all the hyper symptoms. Did you see how my numbers went so low then back up so fast? This is so different from my past history. Isn't there a chance that the inflammation can go away? I read that antibodies can be from inflammation so if it calms back down wouldn't they also subside?

  • 1Bravegirl,

    Hashimoto's progressively destroys the thyroid gland. Initially it may have caused the transient hyperthyroidism you are blaming on Ashwaghanda. You are now hypothyroid with high TSH and low FT4 and FT3. Thyroid replacement is the correct treatment but if you prefer to wait and see that is fine.

  • Here's the last TSH 8.285 uInt Unit/mL (High)

    Date:Aug 10, 2017 05:46 p.m. PDT

    Reference Range:0.350 uInt Unit/mL - 5.500 uInt Unit/mL

    During the storm

    0.010 uInt Unit/mL (Low)

    Date:Jun 09, 2017 12:04 p.m. PDT

    Reference Range:0.350 uInt Unit/mL - 5.500 uInt Unit/mL

    Show more info

    0.019 uInt Unit/mL (Low)

    Date:May 19, 2017 08:20 a.m. PDT

    Reference Range:0.350 uInt Unit/mL - 5.500 uInt Unit/mL

    Show more info

    0.018 uInt Unit/mL (Low)

    Date:May 18, 2017 11:46 a.m. PDT

    Reference Range:0.350 uInt Unit/mL - 5.500 uInt Unit/mL

    Before the storm it was getting up there but ft3 and 4 were still in low normal

    4.607 uInt Unit/mL

    Date:Feb 07, 2017 03:10 p.m. PST

    Reference Range:0.350 uInt Unit/mL - 5.500 uInt Unit/mL

    Show more info

    3.861 uInt Unit/mL

    Date:Nov 17, 2016 02:35 p.m. PST

    Reference Range:0.350 uInt Unit/mL - 5.500 uInt Unit/mL

    Show more info

    2.505 uInt Unit/mL

    Date:Sep 01, 2016 11:42 a.m. PDT

    Reference Range:0.350 uInt Unit/mL - 5.500 uInt Unit/mL

    Show more info

    4.037 uInt Unit/mL

    Date:Aug 10, 2016 12:23 p.m. PDT

    Reference Range:0.350 uInt Unit/mL - 5.500 uInt Unit/mL

    Show more info

    3.666 uInt Unit/mL

    Date:Jun 20, 2016 02:40 p.m. PDT

    Reference Range:0.350 uInt Unit/mL - 5.500 uInt Unit/mL

    Show more info

    3.527 uInt Unit/mL

    Date:Apr 06, 2016 01:15 p.m. PDT

    Reference Range:0.350 uInt Unit/mL - 5.500 uInt Unit/mL

    Show more info

    3.364 uInt Unit/mL

    Date:Feb 05, 2016 11:20 a.m. PST

    Reference Range:0.350 uInt Unit/mL - 5.500 uInt Unit/mL

    Show more info

    3.069 uInt Unit/mL

    Date:Nov 27, 2015 02:55 p.m. PST

    Reference Range:0.350 uInt Unit/mL - 5.500 uInt Unit/mL

    Show more info

    1.064 uInt Unit/mL

    Date:Apr 08, 2015 10:56 a.m. PDT

    Reference Range:0.350 uInt Unit/mL - 5.500 uInt Unit/mL

    Show more info

    2.361 uInt Unit/mL

    Date:Feb 11, 2015 03:25 p.m. PST

    Reference Range:0.350 uInt Unit/mL - 5.500 uInt Unit/mL

    Show more info

    1.356 uInt Unit/mL

    Date:Sep 03, 2014 10:15 a.m. PDT

    Reference Range:0.350 uInt Unit/mL - 5.500 uInt Unit/mL

    Show more info

    0.879 uInt Unit/mL

    Date:May 23, 2013 10:22 a.m. PDT

    Reference Range:0.350 uInt Unit/mL - 5.500 uInt Unit/mL

    1.159 uInt Unit/mL

    Date:Feb 13, 2013 01:43 p.m. PST

    Reference Range:0.350 uInt Unit/mL - 5.500 uInt Unit/mL

    2.237 uInt Unit/mL

    Date:Jan 02, 2013 12:53 p.m. PST

    Reference Range:0.350 uInt Unit/mL - 5.

  • And my antibodies. Thanks!

    80.5 IntUnit/mL (High)

    Date:Aug 10, 2017 05:46 p.m. PDT

    Reference Range:0.0-9.0

    Show more info

    77.8 IntUnit/mL (High)

    Date:Jun 09, 2017 12:04 p.m. PDT

    Reference Range:0.0-9.0

    Show more info

    6.2 IntUnit/mL

    Date:Aug 10, 2016 12:23 p.m. PDT

    Reference Range:0.0-9.0

    Show more info

    0.6 IntUnit/mL

    Date:Jan 30, 2013 12:01 p.m. PST

    Reference Range:0.0-9.0

    Show more info

    0.5 IntUnit/mL

    Date:Jun 16, 2011 12:59 p.m. PDT

    Reference Range:0.0-9.0

  • 1bravegirl,

    Antibodies fluctuate. They're higher immediately after a Hashi flare and subside until the next attack.

    I'm surprised Ashwaghanda affected your thyroid levels so much. A few members use it for adrenal support and haven't mentioned their thyroid levels fluctuating the way yours did.

  • Yep I read many can lower TSH just by using it alone. And it lowers cortisol too. So I already run low in that. Not enough cortisol to get the thyroid hormones in my system. So they pulled.

  • Ashwaghanda made no difference to my TSH (but it's always low as I have secondary hypo) or my Ft3 or my FT4

  • Here is a lab in the middle of the storm in July. See how the TSH was still low but my free T3 and T 4 were even lower than they are now? So I see some improvements. Couldn't this cause inflammation to my thyroid and create the antibodies?

    Collected: 07/07/2017 14:16

    Received: 07/07/2017 14:17

    Reported: 08/11/2017 17:28

    Out of Range T3, FREE

    CURRENTRANGEOVER TIME

    T3, FREE

    2.1 L

    2.3-4.2 (pg/mL)

    Out of Range THYROID PEROXIDASE ANTIBODIES

    CURRENT RANGEOVER TIME

    THYROID PEROXIDASE ANTIBODIES

    96 H

    <9 (IU/mL)

    TSH

    CURRENT RANGEOVER TIME

    TSH

    1.53

    mIU/L

    Reference Range

    > or = 20 Years 0.40-4.50 ... Show More

    T4, FREE

    CURRENT RANGEOVER TIME

    T4, FREE

    0.8

    0.8-1.8 (ng/dL)

    THYROGLOBULIN ANTIBODIES

    CURRENT OVER TIME

    THYROGLOBULIN ANTIBODIES

    <1

    < or = 1 (IU/mL)

  • 1bravegirl,

    Thyroid peroxidase is supposed to be confined to the thyroid gland. The antibodies formed are a reaction to lymphocytes infiltrating the thyroid gland and the resulting damage spilling TPO into the blood.

    When Hashi's attacks the thyroid gland it destroys cells which dump thyroid hormone into the blood as they die off and that's what causes inflammation and low TSH with high FT4 and FT3.

    Each time cells are killed off the thyroid gland becomes smaller and it struggles to produce hormone so TSH rises to flog it to produce more T4 and T3 which can also cause inflammation.

  • Got it, thank you. 😊 But my thinking was since it was self induced or maybe the increase of Ashwaghanda and iodine created this, it could reset once it calmed down. Would that ever happen? If I take meds now will that create more issues for me? Or will I ever be able to get off of them? Doesn't the meds cause more imbalances and osteoporosis? Do you know how the medicine affects my sex hormones since I am post menopausal as well? So many factors. Ugh thanks again for all your help.

  • 1bravegirl,

    Iodine may have been why your TSH suddenly shot up. How long is it since you stopped taking iodine?

    Levothyroxine/NDT are replacement for low thyroid hormone and will be required daily for life. I've no idea how replacement affects sex hormones as I was post-menopausal when I became hypothyroid.

    There is no evidence to suggest replacement causes osteoporosis unless you overmedicate for a long time.

  • I agree. It was the combination of both. Extra spirulina and wheatgrass and green powersIncreased thyroidproduction and the Ashwaghanda also lowered my cortiso.Bad comboThat's why I felt there was hope to come back into range once I stoppdtaking the supplements. No?

  • I stopped the extra green power right away. Now I'm wondering how to get some back in my daily regime

  • I read I can't take iodine now with the antibodies. So confusing.

  • Clutter if iodine created the storm can't it ever reset itself? I just don't get that. If I took too much and made it unhappy now it's unhappy forever? Even if I stop?

  • 1bravegirl,

    Too much iodine can induce Hashimoto's and cause flare ups in people who already have Hashi's. Once you've got it you've got it. If the thyroid is Hashi damaged and not producing sufficient hormone it can't reset.

  • Bummer, so should I take iodine or not? Seaweed? Green powders ok? In small amounts?

  • 1bravegirl,

    I wouldn't take iodine or seaweed as you have Hashimoto's. I've no idea what green powders are or what's in them.

  • So how do you get iodine in your diet?

  • 1bravegirl,

    The Levothyroxine and Liothyronine I take along with the iodine in food and drink should provide the iodine I need.

  • I weaned off armour a couple of years ago and also hydrocortisone and been on natural desiccated adrenal support and immune support.

  • As soon as the Dr saw my extremely low TSH and TPO he said I had graves and or Hashimoto's. That's all he knew. Even with my supplements I told him about. They don't know much on that subject.

  • Usually different antibodies for Graves, but you can have Graves and Hashis together.

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