High antibodies, Normal TSH and after 8 months... very low TSH!

[FleureDee]

Hello,

(1)

Around 8 months ago, I discovered I have thyroid antibodies:

ATG was 135 (normal is under 4.11)

Anti TPO was 89 (normal is under 5.6)

My TSH was 1.24 (normal is between 0.35 - 4.9)

So back then, TSH was normal.

Also, 2 months before that test , my TSH 3.6 (normal is between 0.43 - 4.10) which is normal, or let's say borderline.

My endocrinologist said we should wait and see. I was not given any medication.

(2)

I had made changes to my life style, I cut out dairy, gluten, soy, corn, yeast, and many other things that my IGG test showed I'm hypersensitive to. I lost some weight due to that, I did not mind at all. I ate lots of fresh veggies and fruits.

I tried to relax, resolve my issues , fight stress. I used aromatherapy (frankincense oil), and underwent wet cupping (which does wonders). Had costus powder for 2 months, Plus some healthy supplements to heal my leaky gut (detox program, green juice, pro-biotic supplement, L-glutamin powder).

(3)

Now, the shock was that when I checked my HSH this week, it was soooo low! It was 0.015! (Normal range is 0.47 to 4.68 MIU/L)

(Note: I was fasting for around 12-13 hours when I did the test, because I was also being checked for cholesterol and stuff that require fasting. + I was not on any supplement when I did the test. Only a dose of L-glutamine powder once a day or sometimes every other day)

I though that having antibodies will make me hypo. But why is my TSH so low then? Does this indicates hyper? :S

I'm just confused.

I'm not seeing my doctor soon, so I'd appreciate any input or explanation.

Thanks,

[greygoose]

It doesn't mean you're hyper, no. If you have Hashi's antibodies, you can't be hyper.BUT you can have high levels of thyroid hormone in your blood after a Hashi's attack, which will lower your TSH, as the dying cells dump all their hormone into your blood stream. However, you can't know that that is what has happened, just by testing the TSH, you need the Frees tested, too.

But, it's only temporary. When you've used up that extra hormone, the Free levels will go down and the TSH will rise. Only a bit more so, this time, because you now have a little bit less thyroid to make hormone. You will slowly go hypo in that way. And, it won't stop until all the thyroid has been destroyed.

[FleureDee in reply to greygoose]

Thanks greygoose for the quick reply.

I was looking again at the test, and it actually says <0.015

(less than <0.015) so it is not even 0.015m, it is less. Maybe they can't detect a number that is under 0.015.

Oh my dear butterfly! I know you might call me crazy or in denial, but I was really hoping I could reverse this thing or at least put it in remission. It seems those antibodies are restless and attacking my precious gland. I hate them!

I'll do another test with T3 and T4.

Let me seize the chance and two more questions:

1. Since I have elevated Anti TPO and ATG, that means I have Hashimoto disease, right?

2. I was on B complex sublingual drops supplement for 2 months (ended it on end of April) because my B12 was low. Is taking B complex bad for my thyroid?

Thanks again @greygoose . I really appreciate it.

[Hidden in reply to FleureDee]

fleure,

don't test t4 and t3....it is the ft4 and the ft3 you need tested, this is the active hormone, that is circulating in your blood.

for your or better against your antibodies you should take the supplement: Selenium. 200mg, to help your body fight the nasties. xx

[FleureDee in reply to Hidden]

That's informative. Thanks.

[greygoose in reply to FleureDee]

I have never actually heard of anyone reversing Hashi's. People sometimes think they have because the antibodies fluctuate, and can sometimes go low for a long period of time. But, in the end, they always seem to rise up again.

But, it doesn't matter that you TSH is low, in and of itself. It's just an indication that your Frees are probably high. But, that's just guessing.

Elevated TPO antibodies means you have Hashi's, yes. Taking a B complex is good for your thyroid - well, maybe not the gland itself, but if your B12 is low, your body will have difficulty using thyroid hormone. So, your Bs do need to be optimal. How low was your B12? Because there's not very much in a B complex.

[FleureDee in reply to greygoose]

I'll do the test in a couple of weeks.

But I was wondering, could there be another scenario?

I mean, my TSH was somehow within the normal range, despite the antibodies attacks. Now when I cut eating harmful stuff and took care of myself, my hormone started to go crazy. This is saddening, I was expecting to see good news after depriving myself of al those comfort foods. I only started to be healthy 2-3 months ago, so I know it is too soon to condemn my efforts as useless, but a good blood work result can be really cheerful. So, is there another explanation for my extremely low TSH?

My B12 was 119 (normal range is 138-652). I took this supplement from Holland and Barett: hollandandbarrett.com/shop/...

I was slightly anaemic too, 116 (normal range 120-150)

Here is a case who reversed hashimoto:

deliciouslyorganic.net/reve...

Also I took an online course with Dr. Axe on how to heal leaky gut. He says that all autoimmune diseases stem from a leaky gut (intestinal preamability). Once the leaky gut is fixed with the right foods, and by eliminating harmful foods, things should clear.

Thanks again greygoose for your kindness and instructive inputs.

[greygoose in reply to FleureDee]

What other scenario did you have in mind? TSH varies all the time, it really is a very bad indicator or thyroid status. But, without doing the Frees, it's very difficult to tell what's going on.

Your B12 was very, very low. You should have got tested for Pernicious Anemia. Especially as you have Hashi's, because autoimmune diseases tend to hunt in packs.

Have you seen how much B12 is in that B complex? 48 % of the RDA. You cannot possibly reverse a deficiency with that. You need not only the full RDA, but quite a bit on top. In fact, with your result, you should be having B12 injections. You really should see your doctor about that as soon as possible.

You cannot expect me to take that article seriously. There are no numbers, no blood tests, nothing. Her Hashi's could just be in remission. There's absolutely no proof.

And, as for Dr Axe, what he doesn't say is that even if you do manage to get rid of the antibodies, you cannot reverse the damage done to the gland. And, it's because of the damage done to the gland that you need to take thyroid hormone replacement, not because of the antibodies. Fixing guts does not fix damaged thyroids.

[FleureDee in reply to greygoose]

Thanks a lot again greygoose.

My doctor was not worried because I'm not a meat eater. But I'd better be sure. What tests should I do to rule out Pernicious Anemia?

And after taking a supplement, how long should I wait before I re-rest? The pack says it has 48000% of the RDA for B12.

I really wonder what attack pattern antibodies follow? How often do they attack (daily, weekly, monthly?) and how long does the attack last? I keep thinking of them like an army roving the bloodstream. LOL.

[Marz in reply to FleureDee]

Not eating meat is the reason you are DEFICIENT in B12 - which if left untreated can become a neurological condition as I know to my cost. Surgery in my case removed the Terminal Ileum where B12 is processed - some 43 years ago. Please scroll down in the link below and read the neurological signs of B12 Deficiency - any B12 result under 500 can present with those symptoms ....

b12deficiency.info/signs-an...

Also check out the videos under the heading FILMS. Also read the book - Could it be B12 ? - by Sally Pacholok.

To rule out the B12 Deficiency - ie at a cellular level - you need testing for Homocysteine and MMA - if both are high then that would suggest B12 Deficiency in the cells. The B12 blood test is just that - the amount in the blood - and only around 20% of your result is available to be transported into the cells where it is needed. What a pity Docs do not understand the workings and importance of B12 - it is a scandal. I suggest you read up as much as possible - before you see your GP.

Taking a B Complex containing B12 will skew any results of blood tests in the future - maybe months. This is stated in the Guidelines for Folate and B12 Deficiency which your GP should have read - see below.

bcshguidelines.com/document...

Do you know your Folate levels ? I personally do not think you have PA - I think your deficiency is diet related - but if you wish to be tested then the tests are for the anti-bodies to the Parietal Cells and Intrinsic Factor. Sometimes the negative results do not rule out PA. Go to the main website of the Pernicious Anaemia society and check your symptoms.

pernicious-anaemia-society.org

I would be much more concerned about your LOW B12 - than the anti-bodies at this moment in time. Symptoms of LOW B12 are very similar to being Hypo. I am not a medic - but a fellow Hashi's sufferer with a B12 issue. You can click onto my name to read my story to wellness - just a couple of minutes

[FleureDee in reply to Marz]

Thanks Marz.

I'v just read your story. You are a fighter. I was really down, but after going through these lines, I felt it is a shame that I'm allowing this condition put me down.

Now B12. I've gone through the list, I do have several of them: Pallor (especially my face, it sometimes even looks grayish yellow!), tinnitus in my left year, faint arms and hands, I used to see white or silver dots in the dark, cold hands and feet, fatigue, , recently having palpitations, and, and, .... sigh.)

Now I'm forcing myself to eat beef once a week, and fish once a week or once in 10 days. I've always been fine with chicken, so I'm currently eating it once or twice a week. I'm hypersensitive to eggs, so can't eat them. Not sure if that's enough, or should I eat meat daily?

I'll postpone re-testing B12 and folte because my supplement had both.

Now I want to test for Pernicious Anaemia just to put my mind at ease. SO I guess I need to see a haematologist for that, don't I?

Thanks again Marz. Appreciate it.

[Marz in reply to FleureDee]

Your GP should be able to test anti-bodies for PA. Do remember there can be false negatives.

Sadly supplementing B12 can skew results for months so go with the last result. Raised MMA and Homocysteine are tests that indicate low B12 at a cellular level.

[FleureDee in reply to Marz]

Thanks a lot Marz.