Still struggling with sleep on Naturethroid

[mb008]

Hi

I've posted before about this issue before. Hopefully someone can help? It's 4am and I've not slept at all. I started naturethroid just under a month ago. I switched from levo. I'm on 3/4 grain taken in two doses morning and afternoon. I know it's low...but I can't sleep on it at all. Been taking phenergen to sleep but feel I'm too reliant on it so didn't take it tonight.

If I try to doze I become a little anxious as I've had a couple of bad dreams more recently. Any tips? Magnesium doesn't work.

Should I miss a dose of ndt in the morning? My energy in the day is ok but this not sleeping isn't healthy. I had the same problem trying to raise levo. It's as if I can't tolerate t3 increases.

Is it adrenals? I posted cortisol results previously and it didn't appear that I had major issues. Endo didn't think so either.

My period is due...maybe something there but this has been happening all month so doesn't add up.

I don't know what to do next other than order some tests from medichecks which I have just done - cortisol and thyroid. Can't afford the rt3 test right now though.

Any ideas. Please? We are off on our hols on Friday and I want to be 'there' for my kids.

Thanks....i wouldn't know what i would do without this forum. Sorry it's a long post.

[shaws Administrator]

Maybe try taking Naturethroid at bedtime might work better for you. It's just a suggestion and I'm not medically qualified. Many prefer bedtime dosing.

Your stomach has to be empty so if you have had a meal allow a gap of 2.5 to 3 hours before taking tablet.

[mb008 in reply to shaws]

Thanks Shaws

I don't know what to do for the best. I have some anxiety but no palps. Temperature is around 36.7 which is near optimum. Not sure whether to take this morning's dose or pause for 24hours and start again tomorrow? It is so difficult!!

[silverfox7]

May be testing a good idea. If we aren't on the correct dose that can give sleep problems as well.

[mb008 in reply to silverfox7]

Thanks. I really don't know which way to turn. No sleep at all! Have sent off for tests which will arrive in the next couple of days. I know it's difficult for anyone to really guide without any results.

[hels333 in reply to mb008]

hi, have you considered trying Melatonin? I use 1.5mg of Natrol brand of melatonin - I buy the 3mg and cut in half. Can't sleep without it. I have to buy it from abroad and import to the UK.

If you are in the UK, in the short term I can also recommend Weleda Avena Sativa Comp; these are drops you add to a bit of water before bed time. They can help you nod off, but the melatonin for me ensures I get some hours sleep.

Hope you can find a solution and can enjoy your holiday.

[Marymary7]

I couldn't sleep at all until I started on HRT hormonal replacement for oestrogen and progesterone. I ran out for one week recently and the problem came back. Are you possibly starting the menopause. Mine was at age 47 to 48. I have to replace thyroid hormones too as I also have that problem I take those at night too.

[mb008 in reply to Marymary7]

I am 48. I tested sex hormones, both oestrodial and progesterone were high but I don't know what that means really. My periods are still regular.

[SlowDragon Administrator]

Have you had recent tests for vitamin D, folate, ferritin and B12, including ranges

Low B12 is linked to tinnitus

Low vitamin D can be linked to insomnia. Plus low vitamin D lowers B vitamins too

drgominak.com/sleep/vitamin...

[mb008 in reply to SlowDragon]

Thanks slow Dragon. You sent me this before and I followed and my sleep did improve for a while. All vits apart from folate were good at last count. I think I need to look at adrenals again.

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to mb008]

If you add B complex that will improve folate

[Hidden]

Melatonin makes me sleep incredibly well. It also lowers blood pressure, which is why I'm on it, but it's mostly used for sleep.

No after effects next day

Good luck

[mb008 in reply to Hidden]

Thanks. I bought some melatonin and tried it once but felt more wired. Does it take a while to build up?

[Hidden in reply to mb008]

I'm on 10mg which is high dose. Started on 2.5 for a week. Then 0.5 for a week.

I took 10mg straight away on 1st day, not knowing I should build up gradually. I didn't sleep the whole night!

[Olissima in reply to Hidden]

10mg is very high dose , try weaning in down

[SilverAvocado in reply to mb008]

I also use melatonin and it worked for me within hours of the first dose. It gives me a feeling of sleepiness. Without them I can feel various kinds of tired, but not that sleepy feeling where I want to close my eyes, my brain is shutting down, etc.

I started on 3mg, but started taking an extra 3mg quite often when I was sleepless, so now I take 6mg, which is considered a high dose. But it works well for me.

I used to hardly sleep at all, but the two biggest improvements were melatonin, and doing a Mindfulness exercise in the day. For adrenals, definitely eat in the night if you're hungry, adrenals are responsible for keeping your body going in the long gap between meals. If they're struggling, the body can't cope well with the lack of food.

[StitchFairy]

Sometimes it happens when I'm stressed but for me, sleep issues and bad dreams are more often than not a sign of being under dosed.

[Daffers123]

I have same problem if I try to take ANY T3 products. have tried them all and caNT tolerate.Also I notice any change of dose (however slight) within a day or so.

I would definitely try not taking it one day and see if you feel better. I only made a family graduation ceremony by not taking mine for a day or two. sadly have had to revert to T4 only.

[mb008 in reply to Daffers123]

Sounds like me now but I still prefer ndt to levo...if I can crack the sleep issue. I'm going to start looking at adrenal support. Did you do that? I am very sensitive to meds.

[pinkjess17]

The t3 is too much for your adrenals, hence the insomnia. I would cut right back or go back to levothyroxine iff you felt better. The adrenals need support.

[mb008 in reply to pinkjess17]

Hi. Yes I an going to cut back on NDT and get my adrenal sorted if I can. I am reading up on it now. I feel better on NDT than levo. It is the sleep issue that stops me pushing on.

[pinkjess17 in reply to mb008]

Cortex supplements are good, Adrenavive is oe brand recommended by Dr Pietfield. I find 1/4 to 1/2 of 1mg melatonin taken at bedtime sends me off to sleep if adrenals are playing up.

[Olissima in reply to mb008]

Try taking the NDT in the morning only

[Olissima in reply to mb008]

Maybe you can have your FT3/FT4/TSH checked before considering changing the dose? This way you will know if the thyroid hormones are causing the insomnia...

[researcherUK]

T3 and Cortisol levels will help to explain. The inability to sleep can be a sign of under medication resulting in the adrenals working harder trying to compensate by releasing adrenaline. "Low cortisol seems to cause high adrenaline, and the latter results in a fitful sleep pattern during the night". Along with optimal dose of thyroid medication, Zinc, magnesium and B6 before bed will help.

[mb008 in reply to researcherUK]

Thanks. Are you also suggesting dosing my NDT at night?

[researcherUK]

I wish I have a firm answer. It's all trial and error, to be honest with you.

I take my NDT dose twice a day. 4:00 am (to be compatible with the Circadian T3 rythm) and 14:00. I have also noticed when I was undermedicated and I was also struggling to sleep, that I slept after I took the 4:00 am dose. Not a coincidence but T3 has a calming effect on the body. 3/4 of a grain is and for the majority a bit too low as a dose; however, things will be a bit clearer for you once you have done some blood tests and you come know your current T3 levels.

You are absolutely right about the Phenergan's dependency and as much as it is often prescribed and so easily for sleeping; unfortunately, it does cause agitation, irritability, and feeling jittery for some. So, in other words, it may be having a bad impact on the adrenals. Vicious circle.

[researcherUK in reply to researcherUK]

Sorry as I have missed your post with your results dating a month ago.

FT3 of 4.3 suggests a scope for an increase in your dose. The recommended method which seems to work for the majority is a slow increment of 1/4 of a grain every week to 10 days and until your hypo symptoms resolve and/or you reach 2 grains, then you'd stay on this dose and wait 4-6 weeks and test. Once your body has enough T3 circulating, your adrenals will calm down and even begin to heal and then you'll sleep better.

[mb008 in reply to researcherUK]

Thanks for looking at my last results. It's odd as I know I should raise but can't sleep when I try to. Vicious cycle. I actually didn't take my dose today so as to give myself a rest. I hope that doesn't backfire. I'm going to try some adrenal support again, adrenavive 2 and then try building up NDT with that in place.

[Olissima]

Thd sleep issues probably are due to cortisol. I cannot find your cortisol test results - Did you check cortisol levels in am only or did you do the saliva test which checks the levels during the day (the latter is better).

Phenergan is definitely not a good idea to treat insomnia. Try melatonin 3mg with vit B6 for a couple of nights. If it is not helping , you can try 5-HTP for short time, then go back to melatonin.

[mb008 in reply to Olissima]

Yes my cortisol saliva results were posted a while ago. I tested in May so they need to be redone.

But they were

1. 9.08 (2.68-9.30)

2. 3.26 (0.75-2.93)

3. 1.41 (0.36-1.88)

4. 0.22 (<0.94)

These were down considerably from 3 months previous when all 4 readings were high.

Thanks

[Olissima]

I think your adrenal results are OK. I looked at your thyroid results 3 mo ago. Were you on the same medication (NDT) and same dose at that time? You mentioned that your adrenal results were much worse 3 mo ago (if I am not mistaken), did you take any supplements after that , what made the numbers to improve?

If you are on the same medications and doses, I wouldn't do too much changes for now, your body needs some time to adjust. You can add vit C- helps with restoring the adrenals. I still would suggest to take the whole dose of NDT very early in the am to follow the natural hormone release cycle. Try the melatonin and have some patience...

[Shredder]

Perhaps it is the fillers and binders in naturethroid. I find I cant sleep when taking Naturethroid (the current formulation is horrendous) but sleep well on WP but it isnt available at present.

[Kazbe]

Hi mb008

I’ve been on nature throid and I took my dose all in the morning before breakfast one grain that worked better for me I have terrible insomnia problems , I had to go back on levo eventually but sleeps even worse on that !! I hope you get your medication sorted before your holiday and have a lovely time

Take care

Kazbe 😀

[Flossie71]

Hi

I'm just wondering if and how your sorted your insomnia problem out. I'm on nature throid and having the same problem. I also had insomnia on levo.

It's so frustrating!