Thyroid UK

Advice please. New to NDT and not sleeping

I've been up since 3.30am and this is the third night now without proper sleep.

It's since I started naturethroid, I get up and can't go back to sleep. I'm not overly tired in the day but am getting more wired. I didn't take my low dose NOT yesterday as I thought I'd try and get some rest and then start again...but it didn't happen. I have a blinding headache as well and have had for the last few days.

So, question is..do I take my NDT today? Or do I try and get the t3 lower so that I can rest?

Any suggestions? Please.

25 Replies
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What dose of levothyroxine were you taking? What dose of Naturethroid are you taking?

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I was on 37.5 Levo then reduced to 25mcg for a week before switching to 1/8 grain ndt in morning and same again in afternoon. Didn't take it yesterday and still feel something in my system.

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Even though your dose of levo was low, it was still in your system when you switched to two doses of NDT. I know some people split doses of NDT but is your stomach completely empty when you take the dose. Most times too low a dose can backfire and we can feel worse.

If we have been taking levothyroxine for a while, we can do a straight switchover from one type of thyroid hromone to another to an equivalent dose.

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Yes taken on an empty stomach. I was feeling so awful on Levo and actually felt ok on NDT for the first day. My mood felt better...i am super sensitive to meds. It's the lack if sleep and headache that's a problem. I don't know whether to not take ndt today as well..as I need to sleep. Just having another magnesium drink now.

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I was like this on Teva...felt really awake but unsustainable which is then stressful.

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Naturethroid - if you bought 1gr - it is equal to 100mcg levo, so 1/4 tablet would be around 25mcg levo. 2gr and it would be 50mcg.

It is also hypoallergenic so you should really have 'affects' as such unless dose is too low. Usually a starting dose of levo or other is around 50mcg dose daily. 25mcg are incremental doses.

Maybe you are more nervous at present changing from one to another but you shouldn't have reactions to Nature-throid.

As you are exhausted, I would try to get a good sleep and start again tomorrow. I know it is disappointing when we switch from one to another hoping that this change will make us feel better. I'd personally start on half of one grain. Even though I believe it states 60 or 65 it is measured in mg rather than mcg = 100mcg levo.

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I've been on the natural hormone for 9 days now, and I can tell you that my headaches went away after 4 days taking it. Unfortunately, I am still having problems with insomnia. I'm thinking about taking Ashwagandha, but I haven't yet.

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Thanks for that. Are you getting any sleep at all? Do you think it's to do with your adrenals?

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With the headaches, Have you noticed a spike in blood pressure ? I'm trying to figure the headaches. I'm thinking it's related of course to the thyroid imbalance and med adjustments, but that that may have also caused a spike in blood pressure causing headaches. I ask because if you already take BP meds, until you get your T meds figured, you may need a little more BP med to calm down. Hopefully the magnesium will help take the edge off in the meantime.

Shaws reply/suggestions are helpful.

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No spike. Blood pressure has been okay. Have you racing thoughts with your headache?

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Well for me, I also have TYPE I diabetes, so often my headache and anxious feeling is calmed when I take insulin and lower my blood glucose. However, even with a non-type I diabetic person, that similar response is most likely adrenal/blood sugar related, which are both thyroid related. It's a domino effect so to speak - in my experience.Im so sorry bc I can agree that it's a very scary feeling.

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Thanks. So that means 2 days without NDT? Shouldn't the t3 be out of my system now? Yes I am anxious about the switchover but I can't believe it would have such an effect on me.

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If you were on 125mcg of levo should should have switched straight-over to 1 gr (60 or 65mcg) NDT as that is equal to between 75mcg and 100mcg in 'its effect' so you wouldn't have been on too much to begin with.

As I said, too low a dose can backfire. We are dealing with hormones which are necessary for our metabolism to work. We shouldn't be nervous of hormones as they allow us to feel better..

I am not medically qualified but have gone through the 'rounds' with various different hormones. You should take pulse and temp before beginning.

After 1 or 2 weeks you can increase by 1/4 tablet and so on until you have relief of all symptoms. If heart goes too fast, drop to previous dose. Of all thyroid hormones, T3 was the gentlest for me with no bad effects at all.

p.s. although T3 is absorbed quickly, its effect lasts between one to three days.

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37.5 is a small dose of levothyroxine and not very therapeutic .Did you feel awful on it because you never reached a dose that suited you?...waking in the night /early (I've been the queen of this...sometimes would wake several times and only have literally 3or 4hrs at most!) doesn't necessarily mean over medication, it can also mean you are undermedicated and can be down to adrenals that may need adressing that ndt can highlight.I personally wouldn't split 1/8 and take twice ...I would just take the whole quarter in the morning and would only start splitting if I was getting to above one or more grains.Also some take their ndt at night as it actually helps them sleep so you could try that!Perhaps you may have to ride through it as the levo will be leaving you system and your body gets used to the t3.Also make sure all your vitamins are optimal as if they aren't then you won't be utilising the meds you are taking properly .I've been self dosing and finally I am sleeping much better (than I have done in years...it's a combination of ndt/adrenal support and vitamins for me.

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Thanks for replying. I couldn't up dose with Levo due to insomnia amongst other things. Went to new endo who said I wasn't converting properly and ndt would suit me better. Wad happy to try NDT.

Cortisol was a bit high at two times in day but manageable. Vits were all ok. Only thing was folate was a bit low.

What do you take for adrenal support?

I am going to source some melatonin today I think.

Its never-ending...

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Ah I see ..okies well looks like you are going down the right path for now ...and there's always t3 only if ndt doesn't suit !Low cortisol is my problem...down to years of stress and not properly medicated!..I take adrenavive ll which is the cortex only(cortisol no adrenaline )I'm pretty sure adrenals are responsible for producing many hormones including melatonin (don't quote me lol)and when they are balanced everything else follows suit!..I'm not sure if adrenal cortex suits high cortisol or not but some take adaptogens that suit both ways!Also b vits and vit c are excellent for adrenals (I take mine vit c before bed with iron and that's really helped me sleep bizzarly! ).All my folate/b12/ferritin /vit D were 'in range' but I've learnt since that for us hypothroids it's where on the range that counts !I think this is why no matter how much ndt I raised I still wasn't optimal and bloods were poor .. I just needed more vitamins!Hope you get sorted soon ....sometimes I found that those over the counter supermarket' sleepers' helped....basically just a glorified antihistamine that helps you sleep due to the drowsy effects it has on you!For me I'm convinced "tired but wired" is adrenal and fixing those helps everything else.Good luck..I'm interested to know how you go on with the switch .

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Thanks Lozzer66

I saw Dr P a while back and he suggested adrenavive II for me back then but i had already started Levo and was struggling to raise anything and Adrenavive made me dizzy. I sound so pathetic...but I am so affected by any meds.

I will keep going with NDT. May try taking a dose tonight....bit of a scary prospect....but got to have a go. I want my life back!!

Thanks for reply. Will have more questions soon I'm sure.

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There's no need to be scared and I do know the nervousness when we've had bad reactions to medications previously. I know the sensation before popping a pill in mouth and then swallowing (remember with one full glass of water) but have not had bad reactions with thyroid hormones.

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If Doc P said you would be ok with the cortex it must be good for both high and low then...pity u react so sensitively as I think it's helping me ...but like I said it's a combination of that,ndt,and vits for me... I just need to work on going gluten/dairy free and low sugar....I know my diet effects me terribly....I did try once before for a few months but as I didn't feel much difference I went back to it...but I should be doing it because of my hashimotos! I hope taking it tonight helps you....sometimes I wake at 4.30/5 am and take my ndt...and I fall straight back to sleep ...almost like it knocks me out so fingers crossed for you :)

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Hello, as I was taking a sleeping tablet last night, I didn't fancy taking my dose as well. I think i scared myself out of it! Had a sleep last night so felt ok taking in morning. Felt ok today on my split dose...just the threat of a headache in the background. However it's approaching 11pm and I'm not tired. Going to take another otc sleeping tab and will see how I go.

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Glad you slept :)...hopefully you are on the right track and things will settle including the headache which I would suspect is down to change over to ndt .Perhaps you could try taking at night when you feel refreshed and are not going to take a sleep aid...maybe at wknd when you perhaps won't have to do much and can chill out ...or maybe it's going to settle enough to just take in the day...let me know how you go on ,good luck!

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You might find that your T3 levels are affected by your adrenals. The body has a surge of cortisol at around 4am, although obviously there will be some variation in time between people. See this diagram :

alpineintegratedmedicineblo...

If your cortisol is high, or if the early morning surge in cortisol is greater than usual thanks to the T3 in your NDT then waking at 3.30am is not that surprising.

Although I've never studied it myself (I have high cortisol), precise timing of taking T3 is used by people who have low cortisol to get a healthier response from their adrenal glands.

See Paul Robinson's website :

recoveringwitht3.com/

He has a facebook page too, as well as a private group on FB who all use and discuss his protocol.

I have huge problems sleeping, and (as long as I'm not going through a nocturnal phase) often wake at 4am. I'm sure it is caused by excessive cortisol. I often wake up with my heart going very fast indeed and really hammering in my chest, sweating copiously particularly around the head and neck, and with my brain switching from sleeping to frantic thinking within seconds of waking up.

Apparently the body can go through similar frantic waking if someone has excessively low cortisol. Also poor blood sugar regulation wakes people up. In terms of blood sugar and hunger, if you get excessively hungry during sleep or your blood sugar level drops too low, nature has made sure you wake up and do something about it.

You might benefit from getting your cortisol levels checked with a saliva test, day and night. Some companies will allow people to do samples during the night, but I don't know any details about such testing.

For daytime testing the optimal levels are given in Example 1 on this page :

rt3-adrenals.org/cortisol_t...

Unfortunately I've never seen a similar list for night time testing of cortisol.

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Hi,

Just sharing my experience with Naturethroid. I took 1/4 grain first thing in the morning and could not sleep at all. Tried for 3weeks and started missing work. Had to stop. Back on synthroid. I know it was the T3. It doesn't make sense to me because my T3 is low. I guess it was just too stimulating for my system. I too am very sensitive to drugs.

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Hello,

I couldn't raise my Levo dose so i need to try this. I have just started again after a 2 day break and I took a sleeping tablet last night. I'm going to take another sleeping tab tonight to try and get me into a routine of sleep. Baby steps. Couldn't you try a different brand of ndt - i'm presuming you're not entirely happy on synthroid?

I'm going to go super slow and just pull back as need be.

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Hello,

I also tried adding 2.5 mcg of Cytomel to my synthroid. Same problem. Insomnia. It is any form of T3 prevents me from sleep ing. Good luck finding the right meds.☺

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