Advice sourcing ndt please

[blogsy2]

Hi, I'm new here. My loved one is getting worse and worse. TSH 'normal' but everything else out when he had private thyroid screen. Nhs doing the usual. I would really appreciate it if anyone could private message me with a a safe source of ndt. I don't think he would feel safe taking a product from Thailand. Thyrogold looks good but postage is scary. Would anyone in the U.K. be interested in putting together a joint order to reduce postage cost? Thanks so much!

[Clutter]

Welcome to the forum, Blogsy2.

Can you post your partner's thyroid results and ranges (ranges are the figures in brackets after the results)?

The Thai NDT is very popular on the forum.

I don't think anyone will be interested in putting in a joint order because although it might reduce postage there may be 20% VAT to pay on orders >£15 from outside of the EU and if the combined order and p&p is >£105 there will probably be duty payable too.

[blogsy2 in reply to Clutter]

Hi Clutter,

Many thanks for your prompt response.

TSH 2.25 (.27 - 4.2)

Ft4 11.3 (12-22)

Tt4 54.4 (59-14)

Ft3 3.36 (3.1 -6.8)

Rt3 14 (10-24)

Rt3 ratio 15.63 (15-75)

Tga 52.7 (0-115)

Tpa 12.88 (0-34)

Serum iodine 42 (40-80)

Neutrophils 1.96 (2-7.6)

Ck is 552 (38-204)

Folate low out of range

B12 and d low in range

Mcv high out of range

Temp usually 55.6, pulse 55, Bp 80 over 55 I think. He is quite fit, aged 56.

Cold, depressed, exhausted, catching everything, ageing before my eyes...

Doctor wants to prescribe anti acids for my oh's hoarseness. I'm not a doctor but I can read. I don't want him to take these. Am I mad? Gp wants to do all standard bloods again plus just TSH.

We're interested in him trying ndt. What do you think? I realise it's his responsibility to decide, but we're new to this...

What evidence do you have Thai meds are safe please?

Many thanks.

[blogsy2 in reply to blogsy2]

Sorry only have a tablet.

Tt4 range should be up to 154

[blogsy2 in reply to blogsy2]

And temp 35.6! Can't type on this thing...

[RedApple Administrator in reply to blogsy2]

blogsy2

What evidence do you have Thai meds are safe please?

We don't have any official evidence, as the medication is produced in Thailand so is not recognised by UK medics. The 'anecdotal' evidence of safety is that many UK people take them and are very happy with them. We have members here who've been taking Thai desiccated thyroid products for many years.

[blogsy2 in reply to RedApple]

Thank you RedApple. That's reassuring.

[RedApple Administrator in reply to blogsy2]

There are other NDTs of course. Many people do well on Nature-Throid for example. That at least is prescription strength medication, unlike ThyroGold.

[Clutter in reply to blogsy2]

Blogsy2,

Low-normal TSH with FT4 below range indicates central hypothyroidism which is due to pituitary dysfunction (secondary hypothyroidism) or hypothalmic dysfunction (tertiary hypothyroidism). Your partner should ask his GP to refer him to endocrinology for investigation. If there is pituitary or hypothalmic dysfunction it is necessary to check for sex and growth hormone deficiencies too.

cks.nice.org.uk/hypothyroid...

Your partner's thyroid is almost certainly healthy as his thyroid antibodies are negative but without sufficient stimulus from the pituitary or hypothalmus raising TSH in response to low FT4 the thyroid gland is unable to produce thyroid hormone. Although the treatment for central hypothyroidism is thyroid replacement I don't recommend your partner self medicates until further investigation rules out pituitary or hypothalmic dysfunction.

If B12 is in range your partner's GP should prescribe 5mg folic acid to correct folate deficiency. If your partner has signs of B12 deficiency in this link b12deficiency.info/signs-an... go to healthunlocked.com/pasoc for advice.

MCV may be high because of his folate deficiency labtestsonline.org/understa...

CK may be high due to muscle or heart damage google.co.uk/search?q=Ck&ie...

How low is his vitamin D?

[blogsy2]

Many thanks. It's very kind of you to give your time in this way.

I had wondered about secondary or tertiary, or a problem from low iodine, but I know many think any TSH above 2 is not ideal as well.

His D is 73 (50-200) he's taking d3

GP has prescribed folic acid. I prefer folate.

Not sure the suggested chest X-ray and ENT referral as GP proposes are going to help much?

Could he have hoarseness from his thyroid do you think with these results? Is GERD a wild goose chase? I feel he's more likely low than high acid.

[Clutter in reply to blogsy2]

Blogsy2,

VitD is replete 75-200 and most people are comfortable around 100. VitD should be improving naturally if your partner is able to get some sun on his face and arms.

Has GP palpated his neck and throat to check for thyroid swelling or lump? A thyroid nodule can cause hoarseness if it compresses the trachea. An ultrasound scan should be ordered if a lump is detected. Goitre or nodules are unlikely to have any effect on thyroid levels.

Hasn't GP said why the X-ray and ENT referral have been ordered?

Check these re testing for low acid scdlifestyle.com/2012/03/3-...

[blogsy2]

Many thanks. I think he palpated his throat briefly. He didn't say he could feel anything.

I think the chest X ray is to see if 'something' is pressing on his oesophagus and causing acid in his larynx. Though I don't think he could see any irritation looking down his throat.

He did the bicarb test twice and didn't burp for over half an hour. Then he wanted breakfast!

I'll try and get another appointment for him and get him to push for a referral. He was feeling so ill when he went he didn't express himself well. Maybe I should get time off and go with him.

Thank you so much,

[blogsy2]

So would it be dangerous to try ndt after these new bloodtests whilst waiting for a new gp appointment and referral. It could take months, and he's really struggling with work at the moment.

[Clutter in reply to blogsy2]

Blogsy2,

It will almost certainly prevent him getting a diagnosis of central hypothyroidism and investigation of pituitary and hypothalmus. If he was self medicating he would probably have to stop taking NDT for the investigations. Even if he starts self medicating it won't be an instant fix and it will take weeks/months to optimally dose him and resolve symptoms.

[blogsy2 in reply to Clutter]

Hi Clutter,

Many thanks. That's not what I wanted to hear but it's wise advice. I appreciate it. (-: wait another month to see gp time!

Sarah

[Elielife]

Taking a very strong b12 slow release supplement, magnesium and upping the dose of vitamin d. Make sure he is also taking vitamin c to get the iron levels increases will make a difference in his energy levels. Has he started a gluten free diet as this helped me massively with tiredness and depression. You feel a little worse for the first week with the withdrawals but then you reap the benefits. There is a lot of good advice on here for lifestyle and diet changes which make more of an impact than some thyroid medication. Best of luck

[blogsy2]

Thank you. He is doing most of these things. He is not low in iron, but rather his ferritin is quite high. We did gluten free but it made no discernable difference for him over five weeks. He does not seem to be Hashi anyway.