I am doing 100mcg of t3 only split in 4 doses/every 4h
But i still cant get my normal basal temperature.
Its still 36.0c-36.2c with 67 bpm pulse
After my first dose of 25mcg t3 and breakfast my temp and pulse is 36.8/90 bpm
And my midday temp/pulse is 37/85-90bpm
I dont know what to do, because my pulse is already high and its will be much higher if i increase dose. But my temp is pretty low.
I was on 50 mcg of t3 and my temp/pulse was much lower too.
Do you leave an hour between your first dose of T3 and breakfast?
Do you have a copy of your latest labs to share with us?
How do you feel, apart from your temperature and pulse? Because I'm not convinced that they are the most important. Some people never have their temperature rise. And, I wouldn't call your pulse all that 'high'. So, how are you apart from that? 
No i dont
I feel pretty bad with all hypo symptoms
You don't what? Leave an hour between the T3 and breakfast? Have any copies of your labs?
If you feel bad, there's something wrong. But, if you don't give us more details, we're not going to be able to know what it is.
Why do i need to leave hour between t3 and breakfast, mb you mean t4?
I dont have labs, but i was diagnosed with Hashimoto 10 years ago, then i was 10 years on t4 mono its didnt fix any problems, so now iam trying to do t3only to avoid rt3 problems.
No, I don't mean T4, I mean T3. Did you think that you could take your T3 with breakfast? That's probably why you need such a high dose, then. The hormone is binding to elements of your food, and becoming unavailable for your body to use.
You should get into the habit of always asking for a copy of your lab results, after every blood test. You need to keep your own records. When did you last have a test? Perhaps it's time to have another one, to see where you are.
Do you know that you are a bad converter? Did you try taking T4 + T3, before going on to T3 only? Some people do need a little T4 to feel well. You will only make excess rT3 is you have excess unconverted T4 in your blood. But, it's perfectly normal for the body to make some rT3.
I guess my labs now of ft3 and ft4 going be like high ft3 and very low ft4 with 0.01 tsh
Chance that i am bad converter is very high because of 10 years of t4 mono therapy, with high stress/low micronurients and etc.
Why do i need t4? if its anyway converted to t3 in liver
With only t3 i dont have problems with rt3 in long way
You can't just guess labs, you have to do them. Yes, your FT4 will be low, but if you've been taking your T3 with breakfast, your FT3 could also be low.
Ten years of T4 monotherapy won't necessarily mean you're a bad converter.
I didn't say you needed T4, a lot of people live very well without it. But, other people feel better if they take a little T4 with their T3. But, you won't know unless you try it. It's not certain that T4 is just a storage hormone, it could be that it has other purposes.
It's true that if you are on T3 only, you won't have any rT3, but that's not necessarily a good thing. rT3 has it's roll to play the same as other hormones.
How do you feel? You're getting normal temps when taking your meds so that's working. You don't need to feel great before you wake up. Not sure what you're looking for.
How are you feeling? Are you putting on weight, tired, brain fogged, cold?
Are you taking your temperature under arm or in your mouth?
You could actually be taking too much and so suppressing some things so please list all your symptoms as they may not all be down to the thyroid but being low in vitamins and minerals that would actually support some of your symptoms and also support thyroid function.
What you mean by "supressing some things" ?
I have good iron and my ferritin is 80
100mcg dose seems a bit high, most people apparently settle around 50mcg over 3 doses, but of course everybody is different. I think your pulse is fine, if it goes over a 100 then I think there is cause for concern? Like the others are saying how do you feel?
i take 75 t3 and my temp still average 35.4 and yet i often feel really hot (i think its adrenal) my bpm rarely above 75 even if i feel my heart pounding. I was very ill and untreated for 7 years after thyroid removed so i think its just taking me longer to get well. I still get pain and tiredness so i still have hypo symptoms. I think the temp thing can be misleading and for me even feeling my heart beating was such a shock after a weak, low beat of 50-60 bpm for years.. the t3 protocol rests on basal temp but mine has never gone above 36 so i prob need to increase. I take most of mine 4am and go back to sleep. I find the later dose tricky to fit between food and supplements xx
How low does your temperature go? I had a flare and went from dessicated thyroid to a reduced dose of levothyroxine, but am now back up to my prior (levo) dose, with low daytime temps, similar to yours, but OK in the evening. It may be that I'm designed to be much more active in the daytime (fat chance!).
I was taking 95mcg of t3 and ended up in hospital with atrial fibrillation which was very scary and unpleasant. So do be careful getting a pulse of 90 is too fast, not good and indicates you are on too much t3. Is your pulse regular, do you get irregular beats? As others have said how do you feel?
Sometimes we can keep searching for wellbeing by upping our dose and it really isn't helpful and potentially dangerous. You need to investigate all other aspects of your body, assuming you feel ill, what are your symptoms?
I have m.e and am bed and housebound, more t3 did not cure me, it put me in hospital, I gradually reduced down and an currently on 67mcgs of t3.
Yes i get irregular beats.
My symptoms is typical hypo, like suicide depression/hair fallin/low energy/brain fog
So you upping your dose coz you feeling bad and hypo? How do you feel now and which aspects(like micronutriends) do you fix?
There is a difference between a couple of irregular beats and an episode of consistent irregular beats for a sustained time. That is not good.
I have done so many things to try to recover I can't cover them all, I've been hypo since 1994 but m.e since 2011 and no it's not just being hypo, it's far more complicated and on the whole worse than that.
Diet is paleo.
Sometimes our pulse or temp doesn't come back to what was normal for us before being diagnosed.I doubt many will know what it was. Forget about your temp and pulse and concentrate more on how you are feeling. I'll give you a link about T3 which may be helpful and this is an excerpt:-
The blinded controlled studies we have conducted of fibromyalgia patients taking T3 have involved "cross-overs." This means that without the researchers or patients knowing when, the patients were switched from T3 to placebos and back again. The studies showed clearly that in general, when patients were taking T3, their status improved, and when taking placebos, their status worsened.
These clinical and experimental findings argue against that idea of "cycling" enabling patients to maintain improvement after stopping their use of T3. With increases and decreases in dosage, the only thing that has cycled in our patients is their fibromyalgia status. So, do I believe that "cycling" will "cure" cellular resistance to thyroid hormone? Unequivocally, no!
Third, the leaflet on Cytomel pharmacies give patients when they fill their prescriptions states, "POSSIBLE SIDE EFFECTS: NO COMMON SIDE EFFECTS HAVE BEEN REPORTED with proper use of this medication." This information is accurate—when plain, full-strength, one-time-per-day doses of T3 are used properly, there are no adverse effects. The only adverse effects occur when a patient takes a dosage that for her is excessive.
web.archive.org/web/2010103...
Thank you very much for info, but there is so much info about resistance/rt3 and clearing process of 12 weeks. Even that t3 pooling in blood can cause problems with heart but still not going to tissues.
The doctor/scientist/logistician who made the statement above was himself Thyroid Hormone Resistant and took 150mcg daily. He treated patients who were resistant to thyroid hormones, which meant they could only improve with T3 alone. This is his CV (unfortunately he died due to an accident) so most of his work is now archived or unable to be accessed. He was also an Adviser to Thyroid UK.
web.archive.org/web/2010103...
Excerpt:
Underpinnings of Dr. Lowe's Work. Underpinning Dr. Lowe's work are his two main intellectual interests: (1) theoretical-deductive science, which enables one to make the best possible sense of study findings in a research field; and (2) symbolic (mathematical) logic, the discipline one uses to determine the validity or invalidity of his own and others' conclusions and arguments.
Dr. Lowe is a devout critical rationalist. This means that he subscribes to the hypothesis (proposed by Sir Karl Popper and articulated by David Miller and others) that the ultimate job of logical, scientific thinkers is to formulate bold hypotheses, and rigorously try to falsify them. The reason for falsifying the hypotheses is to eliminate errors in them and perhaps the entire hypotheses. Free of at least some of their errors, ideas, beliefs, hypotheses, and theories may become more accurate representations of truth, which is correspondence with truth. If eliminating errors makes it obvious that an idea, belief, hypothesis, or theory is entirely false, then we can—having learned from the falsification—replace it with one that is hopefully more accurate.
He is also an active critical analyst. This means that he logically analyzes his own thinking and beliefs and those of others to learn whether or not these are accurate and rational. In recent years, drug and medical device corporations have largely co-opted medical research, the medical profession and its institutions, medical practice guidelines committees, and the US Congress. These corporations have essentially turned all of these groups, to varying degrees, into marketing tools for the products of the corporations. This phenomenon is the basis of the statement that the major motive behind science today is economics rather than curiosity and problem solving. This corruption of science has brought about a necessity for patients and clinicians to protect themselves from marketing disguised as scientific findings. Through critical analyses, Dr. Lowe is exposing such marketing disguised as science in the fields of fibromyalgia and thyroidology.
Examples of Dr. Lowe's critical analyses are his critiques of the T4 vs T4/T3 studies; the false and potentially harmful beliefs of the self-proclaimed "real thyroid expert," Dr. Richard Guttler the British Thyroid Associations presentation of selective and false evidence in advocating T4 replacement over treatment with desiccated thyroid; and Dr. Guttler's false claims about natural desiccated thyroid.
Dr. Lowe has also determined that some 90% of fibromyalgia patients have thyroid disease. The thyroid diseases include primary hypothyroidism, central hypothyroidism, and partial peripheral cellular resistance to thyroid hormone. Most hypothyroid patients fully recover when they undergo the metabolic rehabilitation using natural desiccated thyroid or T3 alone. And most fibromyalgia patients with thyroid hormone resistance markedly improve or fully recover when they go through metabolic rehab and use T3.
web.archive.org/web/2010103...
The following is about 'False Beliefs' excerpt:
As a thyroid hormone resistance researcher, I have for many years followed patients who have used T3 alone, some for up to seventeen years. And, of course, I’ve followed myself for a full twenty three. Have we "crashed," as Dr. Blanchard claims we inevitably will? Absolutely not! My follow-up of long-term T3 users shows that most are healthier than people in general. And this is true of myself now within two weeks of the age of sixty-two.
web.archive.org/web/2011060...
So your point is to avoid pulse/temps and just check how do i feel?
But temps = metabolism so obviously if your temp is low your metabolism is low and not optimal. Its good marker because we are warmblooded.
What about Broda Barnes and his basal temp measurements to diagnose hypothyroidism?
I am not medically qualified in any way. I am not against taking pulse/temp as they are usually low if we are undiagnosed but doctors wouldn't take notice nowadays. It can have its place.
I have, at times, felt very hot yet temp hasn't changed.
I also know that sometimes our pulse may not come back to what it was normal for us personally.
Many people have awful symptoms but if the TSH doesn't reach the point for being diagnosed they remain undiagnosed and untreated.
I don't think disabling symptoms should be ignored as they are very troublng/distressing but doctors are told only to take the TSH into account.
Broda Barnes' method is good as all the emphasise is upon the patient alone and it might well be a more accurate way to diagnose a patient rather than just taking note of their TSH, which now seems to be the modern way many remaining undiagnosed and unwell. I'd rather follow Dr Barnes than what doctors do nowadays.
We had another doctor, Dr Skinner who also was against the modern method due to the amount of patients who turned to him (word of mouth) but the Endocrinology wouldn't accept an invitation to meet with him at a Conference he had arranged and none attended. Dr S wanted to discuss the 'parlous situation' in the UK for many patients as he was getting the undiagnosed 'left-overs' from the NHS who had severe symptoms and he had many grateful patients. So, something is very wrong with the system at present otherwise there would be no need for forums like this one.
I know what a struggle it is to get diagnosed,: to feel much worse on hormone replacement than before diagnosis and what an uphill struggle it is for patients when/if diagnosed to get well as they face so many obstacles.
It would appear that few doctors nowadays know how to make patients well and are poorly trained
Low cortisol can also cause low temps. So you can be barking up the wrong tree, but if ur temp was low but you felt OK why care? That's why focus on symptoms.
My basal morning temp is very low so this is problem and i dont know how to fix it
I am assuming you feel very cold? Maybe increase your dose slightly. When we increase it has to be gradual.
Its strange, because my midday/evening temp/pulse is pretty okay. So i dont know which dose should i increase to fix my morning temp, mb bedtime? I was trying to use Circadian method but zero feedback for it, no matter which time or dose i used.
Nah, i dont feel cold, sometimes i get cold hands/feets, but typically i am okay
I am eating every 3h to keep my blood sugar up and prevent stress/low sugar so i am okay.
For now i have 3 ways for my problem
Still low t3 (i take Uni-pharma t3, there is info that its pretty weak) so mb my 100mcg its like 60-75 of high quality Cynomel
T3 is unable to get in tissues(vits/minerals problem) but i am iron is okay and ferritin is 80 mb higher now, coz i was taking iron.
High RT3 (I am now 7 weeks on t3-only and there is info that to deplete rt3 i need to wait 12 weeks)
My partners basal temp was 35.6 but there is nothing wrong with her so she didn't do anything about it becuase it doesn't matter. It sounds as if you are concerned about metabolism rather than any other debilitating symptoms?
Human have optimal basal temp 35.6 to 37.4 in evening. Its not just numbers, Simple if your temp is 35.6 its become good environment for bad microorganisms to spread. Metabolism = how good your tissues cells get oxygen/nutriends and how good you do atp enegrgy. Sad to say but your partners have low thyroid function
No she doesn't! She has absolutely no symptoms of hypothyroidism, no dry skin, low energy, weight gain, hair loss etc. My temperature is higher than hers and my atp doesn't release, (yes I've had my mitochonidria tested) I can't walk more than 100 yards nor tolerate longer than 90 minutes upright. 2 +2 does not always equal 4 in biology. It's that kind of thinking that leaves the psychiatric profession assuming that people with m.e are mentally ill because no one has found a mainstream physiological explanation.
There's no point potentially poisoning yourself with t3 chasing after an allusive body temp unless you have other symptoms. Have you had a saliva stress test for cortisol? Overdosing on t3 can produce exactly the same symptoms as under dosing. It's easy to miss the sweet spot, you have to hold things a good bit of time before moving on, plus the body's needs can change. I think that's what happens to me. My need went down as my diet etc finally kicked in after a year.
If all vitamins and mineral levels are optimal, then check all hormone levels. When low in hormones, T3 is negatively affected by being held back from helping you all it can. When levels of nutrients and hormones are optimal, you will find you need far less thyroid hormones to get the same result.
The gradual increase of T3 will not cause problems in the body when an increase is needed. I worked up to 200 mcg per day before my body temperature normalized. Never felt a hyper symptom at all.
Even though I felt like a new person, there was something missing as my progress came to a halt. As my hormones were balanced, the need to lower T3 was evident as I felt better with less T3.
Slowly backing down, I felt better and better. I am now under 50 mcg per day of T3 and have added back NDT (T4 and T3) along with it. Prior to T3 alone, I could not tolerate T4 at all.
T4 and T3 is best if you can get your body to tolerate it. Without T4, you have no storage of thyroid hormone (unless you have a working thyroid, which I do not).
It takes time to do all this if you have a problem with rT3. T3 alone worked for me and corrected my issues with rT3. It is worth it! Be methodical about everything and keep excellent notes of dosing and progress. Remove all gluten as it interferes with thyroid function. Do all you can to help yourself first. This isn't just about a magic pill that will fix health issues. The bulk of the responsibility to get back to good health belongs in our lap to make all the changes necessary in order for us to regain good health.
Play detective and find out what it is your body is lacking. When you do, T3 can get your body "reset" for much healthier overall functioning.
Stay focused and positive. You can do this. You just have to set out a plan and stick to it each and every day until you find the perfect combination of nutrients, hormones, and adequate absorption of each.
Hugs
There may be a lot of info about Resistance within the internet but it can be solved (Dr Lowe was an expert in this) and he resolved this phenomonem. For RT3 (see link below) .
I don't understand what you mean by 'clearing process of 12 weeks' as T3's job is to saturate all of our receptor cells which happens quickly and thereafter it's work in the cells continues between one to three days.
Neither do I understand about pooling in the blood as T3 is absorbed into our system very quickly. Bearing in mind I'm not medically qualified but I am very well and have been since I took one daily dose. Neither do I recognise T3 'pooling' in the blood. If that was the case Dr Lowe, being a scientist would have also come to that conclusion.
Language such as 'clearing process of 12 weeks' and 'pooling' or Rt3 would frighten a lot of people who are trying to get well if levo doesn't work for them and maybe make them nervous.
This is yet another link and may be of interest as it also states about RT3 and says about a theory:-
A popular belief nowadays (proposed by Dr. Dennis Wilson) has not been proven to be true, and much scientific evidence tips the scales in the "false" direction with regard to this idea. The belief is that the process involving impaired T4 to T3 conversion—with increases in reverse-T3—becomes stuck.
I'm finding this interesting, and particularly Shaws comments and the link to Dr. Lowe's article. I am on 100mg of levo and 25 of T3 have been for well over 18 months now, and up till recently have been doing great. Supplementing, eating low carb gf and caffeine free diet.
Recently I have been experiencing occasional episodes of anxiety and my heart pounding. My blood pressure is typically around 100/55 and my resting pulse is about 75. I have had great stress in the last three or four months and I have started getting some hypo symptoms, such as lower back pain (though thats not reliable as I have prolapsed discs).
I was interested in reading that sensitivity to certain things might cause the heart symptoms and that seems to make sense as I only get them infrequently, and can trace this back to catching a nasty bug some weeks ago and taking pseudoephedrine and steroid nasal spray for sinusitis. Also docusate sodium for constipation.
I was tempted to cut my dose of T3 but not so sure now.
Temp & Pulse
High reverse t3, were you better when you switched to Armour/NP? or T3 only?
High reverse t3 on T4 only
