New laws re NDT in the UK?- Dr Chapman

A little feedback and more information would be greatly received please. I had my yearly review with Dr Chapman today, who informed me he is now no longer able to prescribe NDT even with patients with a bad subclinical response and supporting evidence to Levo/T3 synthetic.... he said new laws came into place re indemnity laws for he and he does not comply and after 4 years of being his patient I now have to find a new private doctor who has this new indemnity to be able to obtain my meds?..HELP please and any feedback and help to source a new London doctors- and a easy to understand explaination of this too. I have previously tried to apply with my GP locally and to obtain their support re meds- but can not get them or the NHS trust to support my need.

84 Replies

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  • Sandrab,

    I think Dr. Chapman is talking about his medical indemnity insurance. There are no laws about NDT other than it requires a prescription.

    Email louise.roberts@thyroiduk.org.uk for a list of member recommended endos but check with their offices whether they prescribe NDT before you book a consultation.

    Alternatively, you could consider buying NDT on line without prescription and ask Dr. Chapman to continue monitoring you, or you could self medicate.

  • Thank you...it is really bizarre- but Dr C has said that the new laws have made it so he can no longer prescribe meds to any patient. Yes we talked about self medicating as I am intouch with my swings and meds. Dr C did give me a guideline. I asked about buying form America- he said that they all require a private PX too from the UK before shipping... I am so worried that I am going to be without my meds.. please can you let me know how I can obtain online without a private PX?... if you know how to please. thank you for your reply. Dr C was so certain about now the list of private doctors in the UK has now been drastically cut due what happened late last year... I have been hunting any information on google...but cant find anything. I will email Louise to ask her for the list. thanks again. x

  • SandraB,

    It sounds as though Dr. C has an issue with the GMC or his medical indemnity insurer if he is no longer able to prescribe. Other doctors are still prescribing NDT.

  • Is it just NDT or any Thyroid meds ?

  • QUE6T-33,

    Sandra posted that Dr. C has said he can't prescribe anything.

  • Hi Clutter, ok - thought she'd just

    mentioned Armour. Thanks

  • Just NDT he said

  • Grateful to hear any further updates on Dr C not being able to prescribe meds ! Can anyone point me direction of

    why list of Drs mentioned above, has been reduced ?

  • The list hasn't been reduced! We have actually added a few docs over the last year!

  • Thanks Louise - who do I email to request

    copy of up todate list please ?

  • Me - louise.roberts@thyroiduk.org.uk

    :) x

  • Haha ! Do you have my address

    or email ? Thank you Louise x

  • Not sure - I'm useless with matching HU names with 'real ones'. Drop me a message or email xxx

  • I think the authorities are cutting off doctors who prescribe other than levothyroxine, like Dr P and Dr S and others used to do. Dr S put up a fight and suffered due to the stress. I assume doctors who have reached retirement age will have to follow or be prosecuted. Dr P resigned his licence.

  • The list hasn't been drastically cut at all!

  • Hi Sandra,

    I'm a wee bit late on your post. I can see that you've received more than 70 replies 😳 Without first reading them all, I'd like to suggest that you ask Dr Chapman if he can explain in writing as you're very confused 🤔 because some other doctors are still prescribing it. So you're very worried incase there's some regulation you've haven't heard about which will result in you getting very ill from not being able to get your NDT.

  • Hello folks. I am also a patient of Dr C's on NDT. He told me that he could no longer prescribe NDT because the licensing laws have changed and tried to move me over to levo, which made me really poorly, so I've bought my own Erfa. I strongly suspect that Clutter has hit the nail on the head with the possible reason why Dr C can no longer prescribe :( I strongly suspect that on the basis of this and a couple of other things I noticed, that it's an issue with the GMC :(

  • Hi Woozie, is Dr C still willing to monitor your condition / results,

    even though he can no longer prescribe ? Surely, if there

    has been a change to the Licensing Laws, wouldn't that

    affect all UK Doctors ?

  • He said he will only be able to monitor me if my blood results are within 'normal' parameters i.e. He won't be able to do so if my tsh is suppressed, which of course it is on NDT.

    As to your second question, I would have thought that the answer to that one is yes as well. I can't remember exactly what he said to be honest, i think I thought at the time that it must be the same limitations that are facing other GPs (my NHS GP is not allowed to prescribe me any sort of t3). But how does that make sense when he's private? The only explanations I have come up with is it's a GMC thing or an insurance thing like Cutter suggested. Given there's so few doctors allowed to prescribe t3/NDT now, it would make sense if his insurance company would get scared about him doing so, wouldn't it?

  • Ooh - doesn't sound good does it ! At least for

    those of us that rely on meds other than Levo.

    Where on earth do you go to find out what

    the changes are to these Licensing Laws ? Like

    you, I can't see these changes only affect Dr. C.

    And he won't be able to monitor you if your

    TSH is suppressed ! ? That probably applies

    to a whole lot of Thyroid patients who need

    a Doctor to monitor their condition. Crazy

    situation & worrying. What do we do now....

  • So Dr C can still prescribe Levo by the

    sounds of it, but still wouldn't be able to

    monitor you as a patient if your TSH was

    suppressed. Well, I tried Levo years ago

    & my TSH was suppressed in exactly

    the same way as when taking Armour.

    That would mean even on Levo he

    wouldn't be able to consult me as a

    patient ! Difficult to get your head

    around isn't it.

  • Dr Skinner wasn't an Endocrinologist but he did prescribe thyroid hormones and for so doing, he appeared before the GMC quite a number of times. It wasn't Dr S's patients who complained about being prescribed other than levo.

  • He did say he would review bloods and advise me.

  • Hi Sandrab, even if your TSH suppressed ? ( See

    Woozieoozie reply above).

  • Yes... he did as it always is for me on NDT

  • I was quite shocked by his response today. Very bizarre to me and something more to it I think too. ... if you don't mind me asking... which doctor do you go to now?.

  • If someone has a response, I think it should be by Private Message.

  • Dear Suzie,

    I think that we have been had! I saw Chapman mid Dec 2016 .I asked if he offered T3. He said yes. His expensive tests confirmed my being an abnormally poor T3:t4 conversion and that my T3 was low. After paying all the money he said in Feb 2017 that he could no longer prescribe T3 or NDT. I have this in writing. He said the laws had changed. He will not reply to my question as to when the laws changed or who changed the law. I rang Thyroid Uk who say that the law has not recently changed. My friend posed as a new client emailing him yesterday. He emailed back saying that he could prescribe T3!! My email is janstar61@yahoo.com.

    What happened to you?Please get in touch!

  • J1a23,

    It's best to ask Dr Ch. exactly which law he is referring to? And what's the name of that law?

    It all sounds a bit vague. 🤔

  • You despair really, don't you? With no medical evidence whatsoever that NDT isn't a good treatment option (to the contrary).

    I assume they just want us all to curl up and die. Because without NDT, that's about all I'd be fit for. Wouldn't it be nice if we could claim on his indemnity for all those treated appallingly on levothyroxine? The doctors aren't in charge - the pharmaceutical companies are.

  • Jazz,

    They don't want us to curl up and die. They want us to all remain chronically sick, so that Big Pharma reaps the rewards of prescribing drugs for heart, brain, bones, joints, etc. That is the name of the game. Big Pharma influence the GMC, BMA, BTF, BTA, etc.

  • 'The doctors aren't in charge - the pharmaceutical companies are.'

    ...and the doctors once qualified get most of their continuing professional development going on ski trips...err I mean attending CPD seminars in Val d'isere funded by the pharmas who tell them levo meets all needs, so doctors don't think any of us need anything else and so it goes on.

    If I get to be a very old lady, who will supply my meds then ? Will I go doolally because I'm being fed levo or because I don't have the wherewithall mentally to order my meds online anymore ? tsk may as well buy my open ended one way ticket to Switzerland right now.

    You are not alone in your despair, Jazzw right there on the barricades with you xx

  • I agree, isn't there a dr called John B in London?

    How about ringing up a few pharmacists to see if they are still able to get hold of the relevant meds then ask for the names of drs who prescribe these 'forbidden' drugs!!

  • Dr c did say to call a pharmacy in Kingston as they would inform me of the doctors that they get private scripts off... but on calling them... they say they are not ethically allowed to recommend doctors!

  • The rationale of medical indemnity insurance has two aspects to it. First, to ensure that a doctor doesn't get bankrupted after an incident. Second, to ensure that the affected patient(s) actually receive compensation, if it is deemed to be appropriate (e.g. in a court).

    If the insurance is withdrawn from some activities (e.g. prescribing desiccated thyroid), then the doctor has the option of not performing that activity - and will most likely choose to do so rather than incur an uninsurable risk. Not much loss to them - unless they feel bad about the issue.

    From the point of view of patients, it means that they are thrown out of having any protection whatosever. The doctor isn't responsible, the insurer most certainly isn't responsible. The risks rise due to (probable) lack of support and monitoring. The supply will often be via channels that are not covered by MHRA, FDA, or other oversight. (Even if original manufacture is under their control.) So probably no comeback if there is a problem with a product. Not even able to enforce simple consumer rights in many cases - such as damage, loss in shipping, mistakes in what was sent.

  • Thanks for explanation Helvella - much appreciated.

  • Would be interesting to know if any other private

    Doctors have changed their stance as Dr C has.

  • Yes, my Nutritional Environmental doctor, who has previously provided prescriptions for NDT, has recently said she doesn't want to do so any more. She's given me one to be going on with, but I'll soon be looking for somewhere to buy from.

  • Mine has QUE6T -33. He saying he is under enormous pressure and has become obsessed with TSH suppression - resulting in me lowering my dose and becoming ill. I see him in a week and I think i will be going it alone after that.

  • I smell the hands of BTA ,BTF and RCP in all this

  • I'm afraid gp's hands are tied on one hand they say a gp can prescribe unlicensed drugs but there are hidden caveats to this.

    "However, all health care professionals who can prescribe as outlined above are subject to:their individual clinical competence; the professional codes and ethics of their statutory bodies; and the prescribing policies of their employers."

    Https://www.gov.uk/drg-safety-update/off-label-or-unlicensed-use-of-medicines-prescribers-responsibilI ties

    There employers being the government and the government as well as a few associations/foundations are in the pockets of pharmaceutical companies.

    Gp's are also advised "You should be satisfied that there is sufficient evidence or experience of using the medicine to demonstrate it's safety and efficacy."

    If the associations that you would think were there to show all available treatments are only recommending levothyroxine how can gp's prescribe NDT. One foundations patient video which promotes Levothyroxine is sponsored by AMCo!

    I believe there is only one option self medicate and prove the worth of alternative treatments by the shear evidence of many getting well by themselves and not the corrupt system that ties the hands of those working in it.

  • Rubbish the law HAS NOT been changed any doctor can prescribe on a named patient basis. Your endo has a drugs bill which is obviously out of hand and the result is that he will not prescribe for you! Tell him that he must prescribe on a needs basis not just because of his drugs bill! The alternative is to buy it yourself and self administer.

  • Hi - but this doesn't follow relative to buying a private

    prescription & paying for your own meds, as is the case

    if consulting Dr C mentioned above. So the financial

    implication for the Dr doesn't apply.

  • Dr C is a private GP who has been doing private scripts for over 16 years. The new laws re indemnity are now in place. Dr C insurance will no longer allow him to write private scripts. Regarding named patient basis- from personal experience I had to write to our local primary trust to apply for this and was taken to a hearing- which again was refused- hence having to go private. Now the private sector will be ever dwindling of private sector that their indemnity insurance will allow- YES you can self administer. Mr C will review and guide from blood results for self administer ONLY now.

  • Thanks for that Sandrab x

  • My Endo is behaving in a similar way. And said he is under pressure not to prescribe and not to any new patients. TSH suppression has suddenly become an issue and wasn't before. I think I will have to go it alone too very soon.

  • This is a separate issue which is mostly to do with cost. :(

  • No its the same thing as he is a private Endo and I pay for my meds Louise.

  • Sorry, what I was saying is that Dr C's issue is to do with his indemnity insurance. There was no 'pressure' involved from anyone. I'm not sure who is pressurising your Endo - maybe it IS his insurance company. :)

  • Hopefully, one of the Admins might know more

    about why the suppressed TSH is becoming

    a factor whether your prescribed or not. As

    I've said before, surely there are many on

    Thyroid meds who have a suppressed TSH.

    Surely if your FT4 & FT3 are nicely within

    limit, that should signal meds are ok.

  • QUE6T-33,

    How can admins know why some private doctors are suddenly having an issue with suppressed TSH? It would be helpful if people asked their doctors why it has suddenly become an issue.

  • Totally agree with you about patients

    asking their Doctors. Why did I

    think admin might know what's

    going on - because you guys seem

    to be quite well informed & I assume

    oversee a lot of posts going through

    this website. If, say, there has been

    some sort of directive clamping

    down on prescription NDT, or

    medicating patients with suppressed

    TSH, I'm sure a lot of patients would

    like to be aware. And I said hopefully

    Admins might know more - not that

    you would.

  • if suppresed TSH is now going to become an issue what on earth are they going yo do with patients who have Central or Tertiary hypothyroid

    my husband and daughter and grandaughter all have totally suppressed TSH and have for years because they have central hypothyroid

  • RFU,

    Suppressed TSH has always been an issue for some doctors, it's not a new thing.

  • i am well aware its not a new thing but suddenly it appears to be an issue with doctors insurers

    thats what is scary

  • RFU,

    It's a bit of a leap from Dr.C having an issue with his insurer over prescribing NDT to say that TSH suppression is an issue with insurers.

  • magne7 endo seems to also have an issue suddenly with suppressed TSH

    sure hope it does not spread to all endos and gps

  • Clutter,

    If anyone here works in the healthcare industry, or knows someone who does, they should try to find out who is pressuring these medics. ☹️

  • Londinium,

    Well I should think it's likely to be Dr. C's clinic, his medical insurer or the GMC and, if so, it's between them.

  • Clutter,

    We are hearing of Endos, GPs and Private doctors who claim they can no longer prescribe NDT &/or T3. Either they are suffering from anxiety/paranoia - or something is actually going on. ☹️

  • Could this be a backlash after "Trust Me " showed other options?

  • No, Dr C changed his details with us some time ago.

    L

    x

  • Oh dear! So now private GP's will take our money for the tests the NHS won't do but are unwilling to prescribe to actually help the patient....Shoot me now!

    Just spent a small fortune with Dr C and ended up in the same situation as you - he will not prescribe ndt.

  • big hugs... I know...last year he required bloods every 3 months at £120 then £80 review calls...but they know this is the only way we receive treatment in the private sector. x Hopefully we can find a doctor to replace Dr C who will prescribe..if not..then we have to buy our meds- then review our bloods based on previous feedback and all our trusted people on here..who have been there too. x

  • It's just so sad that we have to keep doing this to get help. Take care.

  • That's bad isn't it. And it's all so expensive ! Wonder if

    Dr C still able to prescribe T3 ?

  • No. I asked that and he said the same applies to t3.

  • Thanks Woozie, interesting. So, no NDT or T3 prescribed now by Dr C. He will monitor & advise patients still, although from one post above seems that may be questionable if you have suppressed TSH.

    Will he continue to do bloods requests I wonder ?

  • A fat lot of good he'll be if he can't/won't prescribe NDT &/or T3. ☹️

  • If the problem is insurance, would it be acceptable for a patient to write a letter to their doctor saying that they wouldn't claim on the doctor's insurance if they were given a prescription? Just a thought.

  • Anthea55,

    Probably not. Why not source your own NDT and have the doctor monitor you if you don't want to change doctor just because he can no longer prescribe.

  • How do you get net without a prescription?

  • In about the 3rd reply Sandrab1969 said that she was told that buying from America also needs a prescription. So without a prescription we can't buy in UK or USA if that's right.

    Hopefully there are other suppliers abroad who don't need a prescription, otherwise many of us are going to be in trouble.

    I've got a prescription which will give me enough for 2 or 3 months, but after that I'll have to source it abroad. I'd appreciate a pm with suppliers if possible, so that I'm prepared.

  • Most USA suppliers require prescriptions.

  • Sorry ndt. !!

  • Keeponbelieving,

    Send me a private message if you require sources.

  • Dear Sandra B,

    I think that we have been had! I saw Chapman mid Dec 2016 .I asked if he offered T3. He said yes. His expensive tests confirmed my being an abnormally poor T3:t4 conversion and that my T3 was low. After paying all the money he said that he could no longer prescribe T3 or NDT. I have this in writing dated February 2017. He said the laws had changed. He will not reply to my question as to when or to who changed the law. I rang Thyroid Uk who say that the law has not recently changed. My friend posed as a new client emailing him yesterday. He emailed back saying that he could prescribe T3!!

  • J1a2n3,

    I have edited your reply to remove your email address. If members wish to communicate privately they may use the private message facility. If you wish to PM SandraB click on her username and click on Messages top right of her profile page.

  • Sorry for putting my contact details down publicly. I didn't realise. Thanks Clutter.

  • Ooh Sandra that's interesting isn't it ! Have you yet seen

    him to request a prescription again ? I haven't been in

    contact with him at all, so this is all very interesting for

    when I do. I've have searched web for any indication of change

    in Law - found nothing. (Mind you, not at all clear what or

    where to look, just hoped something relevant might come

    to light). Please keep us informed if you hear or find out

    anything more please. I will do same. Thanks for letting

    us know though.

  • J1a2n3,

    Maybe he's trying to get rid of some of his patients? 🤔

  • Can understand that train of thought too. Would be

    great to hear from someone who has seen Dr C last

    week or so if they could add a bit more clarity, as

    had heard someone was having difficult getting

    through to his office by phone week or so ago. And

    it's usually so easy.

  • Ahhh i wonder if this explains the snotty letter i got from my GP? it outlined the horrific dangers of using NDT ( tongue in cheek smirking) and why he couldn't prescribe it anymore....i thought it was odd as they haven't actually prescribed anything since last June?....i have just got some more NDT in the form of THIROYD from thailand.....great value for money works a treat ....wonderful... feeling so much better!! much love xx

  • Hi Bioluminence,

    Did your GP provide references to scientific papers to support his claims re "horrific dangers of using NDT"? 🤔

    If not, what is he basing his fear-mongering claims on? 🤔

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