ever since somebody said something about the none exictence of the quick in us hashimoto patients, i am wondering nearly every day how many of us have the quick showing (the white at the start of the nail) and how many still have the "perfect" nail?
and....what kind of hashi you have?
my thumpnails have a perfect quick but the rest of my fingers have none showing.
it would be lovely to get some answers. maybe if our quicks are showing.....we are on the mend?
i'm hypo with a hint of graves and hyper...... don't know how that works??
for 6/7 Y i have all the bad signs of the thyroid illness and no vitamins or levo (50) and (20) litho are helping.
I think that's called the lunula, or the half-moon. The quick is the skin around the nail, I think. I only have them on my thumbs. Not sure when they disappeared, I know they were there when I was a teenager, but after that...
I have Hashi's, but I'm not sure what you mean by 'what kind of Hashi's'. Is there more than one type?
(Given the recent gluten-free food/rice and arsenic discussions, this includes a specific symptom, Mees' lines, indicative of arsenic and/or heavy metal poisoning! at greater lenght here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mees%... )
[Just fixed link - usual problem with apostrophe that I had not noticed.]
Meant to add, mine have varied over the years - never disappeared, never been huge, but up and down a bit. Currently very middling - slightly larger (as a percentage) on thumbs, slightly smaller on little fingers, but pretty even.
Helvella,i only have the thumb halfmoons and trying hart to push down the skin around the lost halfmoons(cuticals) to get them to show themselfs 🙃 again.
Thank you for that. It's a lot of reading! So, I'll read it later. I always find articles on this subject faintly disappointing. Always the feeling that they're leaving something out...
It's a pity this thread is addressed to Hashi's sufferers, because I would like to know about nails on Graves/hyper sufferers, too. I was once told that the loss of the half-moon was due to pressure on the nails during periods of hyperthyroidism - which, of course, you get with Hashi's. In which case, Graves sufferers would also lack their half-moons, logically. But, if you say that you don't have Hashi's, and you don't have half-moons, then it looks like it has nothing to do with 'going hyper'. Therefore, it must be the famous 'something else'!
The whole of medicine seems to divide in two - sometimes at one and the same time.
We see the zebras-versus-horses - only think about or mention the more common issues because other things are, you know, "rare"!
And the "case report" mentality of reporting an issue that is so incredibly rare and subject to possibly unique circumstances that it might remain the only-ever case in recorded history. A sort-of ego-boosting proclamation of how clever someone was to identify the issue.
So we see that some issue or other, often associated with X, actually also occurs in A, B, C, D, ... but no-one ever mentions it.
some of us take t4 or t3 or a combe of both, some take NT and they fell like themselfs again. but i guess most of us, like me, we get all the bloodtest possible and meds adjusted, all the supps and vitamins, and there is no noticable change in our symptoms! maybe by finding out, what our thyroid disease is and how we cope with the meds or how we didn't....it shows on the halfmoons???
just an idea I'm wollopping over.
maybe the ones with no halfmoons have a more complicated thyroid problem (autoimmune) and the only way to get better is the autoimmune system diaet.
hey greygoose, I have hashimotos hyperthyrotism, (have to read my article again....brainfrog!!!)
i just thought it interesting to find out which of us has half moons and who hasn't, and in which connection to our illness. eg do all hypothyroid people haven't got halfmoons showing or only the thumps.
it might be an ealy sign of having thyroid problems even without anyone knowing it!??
If you have Hashi's, you don't have true hyperthyroidism, in the sense that your gland is over-producing hormone. It isn't. What is happening is that; after an antibody attack, the damaged cells dump their hormone into the blood, and you become temporarily 'hyper' - meaning you have too much hormone in your blood, causing hyper symptoms.
If you are permanently hyper - although you would have to have your FT3 tested to know that, it's not just low TSH - then it could be Graves. That is why you need to get hold of your results. You need to know exactly what was tested and exactly what the results were, to understand what's going on. Because it's very doubtful that your doctor understands much.
that is why I'm so confused, im up for another test , with a new doctor, the other one left the practice. ill ask exactly what i have. thank you greygoose for your answer.
i have most of my records, but understanding them is something totally diverend. the last one i posteddidnt give me enough support to understand the results.i even NOW just understand that hashimotos is not the name of thyroidillness and hypo/hyper and gravesa brunchof it!!
OK, so I've looked at your last posts. You have Hashi's, there's no mention of Graves antibodies. And, with your TSH at 4.2, there's no way you could possibly be hyper. So, I have no idea what your doctor is talking about.
Your FT4 is low, but that is normal when taking T3. However, your FT3 is only mid-range, and that's much too low for most people to feel well.
But, those labs were done in October last year. Have you not had any done since?
Did your doctor give you an increase after seeing those labs? If so, what and how much?
Why do you take your T3 half an hour after your T4? Do you still leave a complete hour between taking your T3 and eating?
Hashimoto's Thyroiditis is an autoimmune disease that affects the thyroid.
Graves is an autoimmune disease that affects the thyroid.
The difference is that with Hashi's, the immune system attacks the thyroid, destroying cells, until it is quite dead, leaving you hypo, and completely dependant on taking thyroid hormone replacement.
As the cells die, they dump all the hormone they contain into the blood, causing your levels to become temporarily high - 'hyper' - and possibly causing hyper symptoms.
Once all that extra hormone is used up, you become hypo again - only more so, because you now have less gland. We call these hypo/hyper swings.
But, you never become truly hyper, in the sense that your thyroid gland is over-producing hormone.
In Graves, however, the antibodies stimulate the gland to over produce, so you become permanently hyper, and need to take medication to calm the thyroid down, and reduce the levels of hormone in the blood. Not at all the same thing as the 'hyper' swings of Hashi's, and not treated the same way.
It is perfectly possible to have thyroid problems - hypo or hyper - without antibodies. This can be caused by many things : an accident to the pituitary or the hypothalamus; endocrine disruptors in food or water; congenital hypothyroidism, etc. But, you have Hashi's.
allyson, i read and reread all answers also checked out the websites, and it looks like that you can loose your halfmoons in your lifetime and they also come back again. i just find it interresting that we (here) have only our thumb lunulae showing. some more some less. then some have a sliver on there pointer finger, so far, that is all i could find out in here, ❤️
thanks gray goose for your answer. yes i meant the halfmoons.
when i was first diagnosed with hashimotos, the doctor said the result say hashimotos-hypo and hashimotos- hyper but also graves. i could not make heads or tails out of it, and now my new doc treats me as hashimotos-hypo. i have all the symptoms of the thyroid illness and nothing helps. it is getting worse and the weightgain and and and sometimes it gets to me really bad and I can't sleep because of the depressions.
It is possible to have the antibodies for both Graves and Hashi's. But did he actually test for both, or is he another one that makes it up as he goes along. Hashi's people will have 'hyper' swings, but they are basically hypo.
It sounds as if you are under-medicated. Do you have copies of your blood test results? If so, post them here, with the ranges. If not, the first step to wellness is getting hold of them.
When I was a youngster I was a beautician and did nails for a living. Everyone told me how awful their nails were but the only really unhealthy set I ever saw was on a lovely woman who had such awful psoriasis on her fingers it affected the part of the finger where the nail forms. Her nails were deeply ridged and pitted, so thin in spots they were almost through to the skin.
I think we like to think that nails (and hair etc) are a kind of crystal ball which give us insight into our state of health but they're actually just dead tissue that protects your fingertips, no more, no less. They can be thin, thick, brittle, flexible, clear, white, yellow etc but as long as they're doing the job I think there isn't a lot to read into them, or certainly not as much as people seem to think.
yes allyson, our fingernails can tell a story, if only the doctors would listening to it! my first doctor in 1968 was of the "old" school. looked in my ears, smelled my breath, tongue, eyes and fingernail/ hands.
now the doctors do...I dont know what, but if we want a health consultation of the kind of old school we need to pay a naturopath or simular person.
yeah, I'm sure I'm b12 deficient . I'm looking into that soon. just changed my doctor , the old one left the practice and the good one i seen lately, is too far to travel and too expensive.
There are various conditions that deform nails and/or make them appear abnormal and, in combination w other symptoms, some nail deformities might aid a diagnosis, but nail strength or lack of it is not a specific condition that indicates anything except that one might prefer to be able to grow one's nails.
Nail 'strength' isn't really a thing, or rather it is lots of different things. Our nails are not claws, meant to stay rigid until they are worn away; they're meant to protect the fingertip and fall off. Most fingernails achieve that goal. So 'nail strength' means different things to different people and relies on flexibility as much as hardness, will be affected by length, how one uses one's hands, chemical exposure etc. In my job I found most people who regretted not having strong enough nails liked the cosmetic quality of long nails and thought that indicated health.
As far as I'm aware the 'moons' at the base of the nail have nothing to do w health. That is simply where your nail is formed and some are visible and some aren't. You can injure the root of the nail and it will affect the growth and texture of the nail as it grows out (potentially permanently), so in that case the injury of that nail is reflected in its appearance.
thank you puncturedbicycle for you input.
yes i thought allways that way too. nails have a purpose and if doing the the job all is fine.
but nails and hair are a indicator of our wellbeing in one way or another.
i just wanted to satisfy my curiosity about: do all thyroid sufferers have a full set of halfmoons on their fingers or not. maybe it is an early indicator of suffering an autoimmune illness and didn't know about it?
I think that would be an interesting survey, but of course all of us here have one kind of thyroid problem or another so you'd probably want to survey a wider selection of folk to see what a cross-section of the population looks like and compare it to those w autoimmune thyroid issues.
That half-moon is the root of the nail where your nail plate is formed. If you injure it the nail surface will be affected. I do not think it is related to thyroid and/or autoimmune illness (or I see no reason why it would be related) but stranger things have happened I suppose.
This is an interesting topic. My nails have been in many states through the years but more recently have been pretty bad. I see someone about my nails fairly often and it's made me notice a lot about them and my overall health at the time.
Ridges that go from bottom to top are normal for many but an indicator or health problems if they go from side to side. I've also had an issue where the nails act like there's separate layers to them that easily come apart. Not sure why that is.
I have excellent half moons on both thumbs but my fingers do not. On my left hand they are there but small and on my right they are smaller or non existant.
I have an under active thyroid and have never been tested for hashimotos as my gps' say only a consultant can ask for that. Hmmmmm... I also know steroids wreck nails. Every time I have them (which is quite often, I recently went two whole months without them and thought that was ages) my nails get brittle and break or split right down to flesh. It's painful and looks horrible.
P.
hi ladytelita,
i only more or less read up on the missing halfmoons, but came across a site Helvella put on in the beginning, i think it was the wikipedia website. in my oppinion it is never a good sign if the nails loose their appeal.
do you need steroids for health reasons?
Hi Hidden I'm Hashi's and have moons on my thumbs only.
I think it's an interesting discussion. Hubby has good moons 😏 but they're quite pale. Not sure what that means?!
Hashi's here too and just inspected my nails and only have the half moons visible on my thumbs also! Interesting now off to check husband and kids for comparison
Hi mojas, well my nearly 2 year old has no visible moons at all, my 9 year old only has on his thumbs like me and my husband has them visible on all his fingers! Does your theory apply to children too, hope not!!
syd35,i would not worry about the quick on childrens fingernails. as someone here said, they come and go. it just worries me abit and I'm curious about...why we thyroid sufferers have only the quick (halfmoons) on our thumps??
l only wished i a was in my late teens and could study sience. i would write a doctorate about it and end up a professor ! one can dream?
thank you syd for your answers, I appreciate it very much.
PS
I now ask acquaintances and work mades to show me their fingers, so I can have a look at their nails!! they all have the halfmoons ! will check my neighbours girls, 2,4 and 6 and see how they turn out on the nail scale. 😉
dont worry about your 9y old, it is too early to speculate on my theory (as such) in children, as they are in a developing stage. hugs!
there are a few mother in our group with children of differend ages... it would be soooo lovely and great it (I) we could have info on adolescents with thyroid problems and their nails? and men, as well!
so far, none of us has more than 4 fingernail, showing the halfmoons!?
I'm Hashi's and have only got half moons on my thumbnails now, I've no idea when the ones on my other fingernails vanished - I used to have them! My nails on my left hand aren't in good shape - I've a lot of longitudinal ridging to the point of the nails splitting at the ridges (top of nail) so they easily catch on things and then can rip. I have had to wear a minimally-sized bandaid around the top of my left thumb nail for 3 years now, (obviously changed several times a day which is a damn nuisance) and my ring finger nail is heading the same way. I never use nail polish or products, don't subject them to a lot of washing up, etc. I'm really hoping taking Levo will improve them but of course it takes months for nails to grow the full length. Just another irritation of thyroid illness!
I must say though, looking at my nails today, they are lovely and shiny and I haven't noticed that for a long time! Maybe going dairy free/gluten free has helped.
• in reply to
jadziha, gread that your nails are better now!
since i wrote the post, i worked hard of doing the "olden days" nail manicure, by pushing the skin around the cuticles down, ... every day and now I can see a bit of the white on both my pointing fingers. yeeahhh. i am sure if the medication and the vitamins/minerals are up in range our nails will be better, as well as our hair!!. xx
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Help with blood results please
Dithyron T3/T4 combination, anyone tried it?
I'm sending you all a hug on Tuesday :)
To Levo or not to Levo that’s the question 
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