Converting

[Pixielula]

I have just ordered my first batch of NDT, if I am currently taking 60 mcg of liothyronine, do I need to take 60 mcg of NDT? I'm not sure if it converts the same.

[shaws Administrator]

This is a conversion chart and you will see 1 grain of NDT is equal, in effect, to around 25mcg of T3. (liothyronine) or 100mcg of levo all approx.

thyroid.about.com/library/d...

[Pixielula in reply to shaws]

Thank you for your help.... I am shocked at how many people there are now having to self medicate totally appalling. So I would need 2 grains as a replacement dose?

[SilverAvocado in reply to shaws]

Shaws, I clicked through to study that chart, but there is something is a bit strange about it.

She says 1 grain is equivalent to both 25mcg of T3 or 100mcg of T4. Which implies that the relationship between the two is T3 is 4x as powerful.

BUT: As a grain of NDT contains approx 38mcg of T4 and 9mcg of T3, in order for this to be equivalent to 100mcg of T4, the T3 in it has to count as equivalent to 62mcg of T4. Which is means it is being called about 7x as strong.

So if you try to use this chart to compare a few different doses and combinations you'll get different results depending on which orders you do them in.

I think this is quite common as you see lots of different conversion rates for T3 to T4. I've seen as high as 10x. People on this site often use 4x. That makes a grain of NDT equivalent to 74mcg of T4, or 18.5mcg of T3.

I guess if you're trying to plan a new dose it's best to use the most cautious conversion for you, depending on which direction you're switching.

[shaws Administrator in reply to SilverAvocado]

I believe it is the 'effect' of the hormones.

Some say the equivalence of 25 mcg T3 can be (in different people) between 75mcg to 100mcg levo and 20mcg T3 around 60mcg levo. I might take one 25mcg tablet but another will find that's too much and may have the same effect on half or 3/4 of 25mcg T3.

As far as I know NDT contains all of the thyroid hormones, T4, T3, T2 and T1 (small amounts of the latter 2) and calcitonin.

That's why the recommendations are 'gradual' and work up to you feel well.

[helvella Administrator Thyroid UK]

No - absolutely not.

Desiccated thyroid (NDT) comes in tablets based on one grain - which is about 60 to 65 milligrams of dried thyroid. (The different makes have standardised on very slightly different numbers of milligrams.) Some makes produce numerous doses from one quarter grain up to five grains.

Typically, one grain of desiccated thyroid (60 to 65 milligrams) contains around 38 micrograms of T4 and 9 micrograms of T3.

There is detailed information about several makes of desiccated thyroid on the main Thyroid UK site, here:

thyroiduk.org.uk/tuk/treatm...

Having not ever taken liothyronine or desiccated thyroid, I'll let others put their ideas on the best way to change.

I wouldn't be surprised if you ended up on a bit over two grains - if it works well for you.

[Pixielula in reply to helvella]

You guys are amazing .....yes I just calculated 2grains, luckily I ordered 2 grain sized tabs with a view to cutting them in half. But 100 tabs is 3 months worth.

[shaws Administrator in reply to helvella]

This is a conversion chart from RLC Labs ?:-

getrealthyroid.com/the-real...

[shaws Administrator]

I would start at 1.5 grains to begin with and after two weeks increase by a 1/4 to 1/2 grain about every 2 weeks but drop back to previous dose if you feel overdosed, i.e. too fast heart rate, too hot etc.. Take note of your pulse/temp several times a day so that you can chart your progress.

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

[shaws Administrator in reply to shaws]

There is no 'set' dose for any thyroid hormones although many doctors think it is where a 'dot' is on a print-out. It is how the patient feels which is the best decider - when they feel well with relief of all symptoms.

[waveylines]

I take a natural dessicated thyroid extract (NDT) -most have the same ratio of T3/T4 but some don't, like Erfa so nest to check each one for its actual active content. Which one have you ordered? Stopthethyroidmadness has a list of NDTs and their T4 &T3 content. So Armour, Westhroid, WP I know all have the same thyroid t4/t3 content.

In theory you can do a straight equivalent dose and don't need to start all over again when switching -however many people opt to introduce at a slightly lower level initially in case they have a stronger uptake and slowly titrate at 1/4 to a half grain every 4-6 weeks to find their sweet spot. Bare in mind that T3 is roughly four times the strength of T4 so 60mcg of NDT would be much weaker then 60mcg o Liothyorine as other have explained.

[Pixielula]

Hi wavey, I have ordered WP thyroid from <pharmacy>, a few people gave some recommendations for products and suppliers, is it the correct payment method to pay directly into a bank account? All this is really taking me out of my comfort zone, but desperate times/ desperate measures and all that!! I have worked out roughly 2 grains. I got the biggest sized tablet for economy sake (2grains) with a view to cutting them up but won't need to do that so was lucky. I did get a reply from one web site asking me to pay with bitcoins?????? What the hell are those???That was a step to far for me. But I have learnt so much in two days I feel like I have been living under a rock all these years. Every one is so informed and knowledgeable I didn't even know what NDT was.

<edited by admin to comply with guideline 23>

[waveylines]

Hi Pixielula... Feel free to private messagd me -can't talk about this on an open forum. To do this click on my pic and my profile should come up and you should see a link saying to message me xx