Help

[luffe1968]

I am a 47 Year old man from Denmark. Unfortunately the doctors in Denmark are not very harry using T3 together with T4. Finally i have started on liothyronine (3 x 5mcg daily) i was told to reduce my levothyronine(euthyrox) from 200mcg to 150 mcg daily. The first 3 weeks been super. Know i feel very exhausted and crying full.

Before i started with the liothyronine my bloodtest looked like this:

1. TSH2,3

2. FT4284

3. FT35,5

4. TT4221

5. Thyroid Peroxidase Antibodies20

6. Thyroglobulin Antibodies<0,3

7. Triiodthyronin [T3];P1,2

8. Ferritin278

9. T-uptake1,14

10. Vitamin B12377

11. C Reactive Protein0,9

12. Vitamin D (25 OH)55

13. REVERSE T3???

14. B12377

Any specialist who can guide me ??? Why are my FT4 and my TT4 so high - they have been upto 429 for FT4 and upto 328 for TT4. My endo says these numbers are not of interest. He only looks at my TSH level. (levels in DK has to be between 0,3 - 4,0)

I also belief i have to take a look one my adrenal. What is the best way to determine if i have problems with my adrenals and therefore could have trouble profeting from my treatment. I was told that exercising (4 days a week) is not to prefer if you suffer from adrenals problems - any comment on that

Please help me. In Denmark we have a very rigid way to treat people with tryroid problems. If they could they would prefer only to use levothyronine (Euthyrox).

regards Henrik from Denmark.

[shaws Administrator]

Welcome to our forum Henrik and members will try to help. We are not medically qualified - just people who happen to have not recovered on levothyroxine mainly and we do know that many people do feel fine on levo. I am not one of them neither are the other 45,000+ members..

I am not good at blood tests and some of the numbers on yours are unfamiliar to me.

This is from the main website Thyroiduk.org.uk about blood tests.

thyroiduk.org.uk/tuk/testin...

Did you get your blood taken first thing in the morning and fast (you can drink water). You also allow 24 hours from your last dose of levo and the blood test. You take levothyroxine afterwards.

Takin hormones before a blood test skews the results.

I cannot understand why your T4's are so high and can only assume you either got your blood tests taken shortly after taking levothyroxine. Or your body isn't capable of converting T4 to sufficient T3.

Would you be able to buy your own hormones (not levothyroxine) to import into Denmark for your own use? Many of our members do this.

15mcg of T3 with 150mcg doesn't seem the appropriate combination. If you go to page 79 - towards the end of the page and page 80 (top left hand side) and read about ratios:-

tpauk.com/images/docs/reduc...

They don't seem to understand that levothyroxine does not work for some people, due to it being a synthetic substance. T3 is also a synthetic but doesn't need to be converted. Sometimes our bodies just don't like the fillers/binders used in levo.

"I am not a medical professional and this information is not intended to be a substitute for medical guidance from your own doctor. Please check with your personal physician before applying any of these suggestions".

This is an archived website and you will find lots of topics as this doctor didn't believe levo was the best possible replacement. Any links within them may not work due to the fact that it is now archived due to Dr Lowe's death.

[luffe1968 in reply to shaws]

Thyrotropin [TSH];P2,3>18 year: 0,300 – 4,00 x 10-3 int.enh./L

Thyroxin (3,5,3´,5´- tetraiodtyronin)

Thyroxin [T4];P 221>18 years: 60 – 140 nmol/L

Thyroxin(frit)-index;P 284>18 years: 69 – 165 nmol/L

[T4-uptake];P 0,740,80 – 1,30

FT4 index ?? >20 years: 10,0 – 22,0 pmol/L

Triiodthyronin (3,5,3’- triiodtyronin)

Triiodthyronin [T3];P1,7>18 years: 1,10 – 2,50 nmol/L

Triiodthyronin frit [T3];P5,5>20 years : 3,9 – 6,8 pmol/L

T3-reaction/T3-uptake ?? >18 years 0,75 - 1,25 arb.enh./L

Triiodthyronin (3,3´,5’ - triiodtyronin)

Reverse T3 (rT3) ?? stopthethyroidmadness.com/r...

Thyroxin-bindende globulin

(TBG) ?? 233 - 490 nmol/L

Thyroglobulin (Tg) ?? >18 years: < 60µg/L

antibodies:

Thyreoidea-stim.+blok.

immungl;P <0,3 <0,7 IU/L

Thyroidperoxidase-Ab;P 20 <60 x 103 arb.enh./L

C-reaktivt protein [CRP];P 0,9 <6,0

Amylase, pancreastype;P 64 10 - 65 U/L

Vitamins and minerals:

Selen ??

Vitamin B12;P 377 130 - 700 pmol/L

Ferritin;P 278 15 - 300 µg/L

25-Hydroxy-Vitamin

D(D3+D2);P 55 50 - 160 nmol/L

Iron 20 >18 years 9 - 34 µmol/l

Kalium;P 4,3 3,5 - 4,4 mmol/L 

Calcium-ion frit (pH=7,4);P 1,27 1,18-1,32 mmol/L

Zink;P 17,7 10–19 µmol/L

Magnesium ?? 0,70 - 0,95 mmol/L

Natrium;P 139 137-145 mmol/L

Kolesterol mm.

Kolesterol HDL;P 1>1,0

Kolesterol LDL;P 4,9<3,0

Kolesterol;P 6,9<5,0

Monocytter;B 0,870,20 - 0,80

Triglycerid;P 4,15<2,0+A4:F47

Hi, Shaws,

I put in the numbers from my lab ranges for each of the test results. I read about the ratio T4/T3 and got even more confused. I feel bad as I already noted my symptoms are:

physical/mentally: headache, strange sensations in the muscles in my head (maybe brain ??) i can decide. I am tried and nervous tending to anxious. I have had a depression with ocd (obsessions not compulsions). I feel like these tendensis reappears to some extent and that makes me even more afraid.

Know me questions: was I too much reduces in my levo(Euthyrox) from 200 to 150 per day. I have a thyroid destruction due to radioiodine therapy. Does it take some time fore my body to get used to liothyronin. I can not judge if i am hypothyroidism or hyperthyroid. I could wait fore a bloodtest, but my endo wont check my FT3, FT4, Reverse T3 (rT3), FT4 index, T3-reaction/T3-uptake, (TBG) and Thyroglobulin (Tg), so how in the name of God can i deside either hypothyroidism or hyperthyroid. Can you help my out or somebody.

I can accept my physical problems but absolutely not that my psychologicals symptoms are comming back.

I Hope somebody can recognize these symptoms at startup with liothyronine and guide my on what to do ?????????????

Thank you - thank you thank you !!!

regards Henrik / Denmark

[shaws Administrator]

Welcome to our forum Henrik and members will try to help. We are not medically qualified - just people who happen to have not recovered on levothyroxine mainly and we do know that many people do feel fine on levo. I am not one of them neither are the other 45,000+ members..

I am not good at blood tests and some of the numbers on yours are unfamiliar to me.

This is from the main website Thyroiduk.org.uk about blood tests.

thyroiduk.org.uk/tuk/testin...

Did you get your blood taken first thing in the morning and fast (you can drink water). You also allow 24 hours from your last dose of levo and the blood test. You take levothyroxine afterwards.

Taking hormones before a blood test skews the results.

I cannot understand why your T4's are so high and can only assume you either got your blood tests taken shortly after taking levothyroxine. Or your body isn't capable of converting T4 to sufficient T3.

Would you be able to buy your own hormones (not levothyroxine) to import into Denmark for your own use? Many of our members do this.

15mcg of T3 with 150mcg doesn't seem the appropriate combination. If you go to page 79 - towards the end of the page and page 80 (top left hand side) and read about ratios:-

tpauk.com/images/docs/reduc...

They don't seem to understand that levothyroxine does not work for some people, due to it being a synthetic substance. T3 is also a synthetic but doesn't need to be converted. Sometimes our bodies just don't like the fillers/binders used in levo.

"I am not a medical professional and this information is not intended to be a substitute for medical guidance from your own doctor. Please check with your personal physician before applying any of these suggestions".

This is an archived website and you will find lots of topics as this doctor didn't believe levo was the best possible replacement. Any links within them may not work due to the fact that it is now archived due to Dr Lowe's death.

web.archive.org/web/2010112...

[shaws Administrator]

Henrik something is going wrong with the site today, thus you have two responses from me instead of 1. Ignore one and read the one which ends with an archived site.

[eeng]

It would really help if you could put the lab ranges (usually the figures in brackets after the results) for each of the test results. Different labs i different countries have different ranges.

[luffe1968 in reply to eeng]

hi Eeng and thank you for your interest inhelping me out. Following bloodstest are my lab ranges for each of the test results. If you could comment on that and if you could comment on my physical and psychologicals symptoms written below.

Thyrotropin [TSH];P2,3>18 year: 0,300 – 4,00 x 10-3 int.enh./L

Thyroxin (3,5,3´,5´- tetraiodtyronin)

Thyroxin [T4];P 221>18 years: 60 – 140 nmol/L

Thyroxin(frit)-index;P 284>18 years: 69 – 165 nmol/L

[T4-uptake];P 0,740,80 – 1,30

FT4 index ?? >20 years: 10,0 – 22,0 pmol/L

Triiodthyronin (3,5,3’- triiodtyronin)

Triiodthyronin [T3];P1,7>18 years: 1,10 – 2,50 nmol/L

Triiodthyronin frit [T3];P5,5>20 years : 3,9 – 6,8 pmol/L

T3-reaction/T3-uptake ?? >18 years 0,75 - 1,25 arb.enh./L

Triiodthyronin (3,3´,5’ - triiodtyronin)

Reverse T3 (rT3) ?? stopthethyroidmadness.com/r...

Thyroxin-bindende globulin

(TBG) ?? 233 - 490 nmol/L

Thyroglobulin (Tg) ?? >18 years: < 60µg/L

antibodies:

Thyreoidea-stim.+blok.

immungl;P <0,3 <0,7 IU/L

Thyroidperoxidase-Ab;P 20 <60 x 103 arb.enh./L

C-reaktivt protein [CRP];P 0,9 <6,0

Amylase, pancreastype;P 64 10 - 65 U/L

Vitamins and minerals:

Selen ??

Vitamin B12;P 377 130 - 700 pmol/L

Ferritin;P 278 15 - 300 µg/L

25-Hydroxy-Vitamin

D(D3+D2);P 55 50 - 160 nmol/L

Iron 20 >18 years 9 - 34 µmol/l

Kalium;P 4,3 3,5 - 4,4 mmol/L 

Calcium-ion frit (pH=7,4);P 1,27 1,18-1,32 mmol/L

Zink;P 17,7 10–19 µmol/L

Magnesium ?? 0,70 - 0,95 mmol/L

Natrium;P 139 137-145 mmol/L

Kolesterol mm.

Kolesterol HDL;P 1>1,0

Kolesterol LDL;P 4,9<3,0

Kolesterol;P 6,9<5,0

Monocytter;B 0,870,20 - 0,80

Triglycerid;P 4,15<2,0+A4:F47

I put in the numbers from my lab ranges for each of the test results. I read about the ratio T4/T3 and got even more confused. I feel bad as I already noted my symptoms are:

physical/mentally: headache, strange sensations in the muscles in my head (maybe brain ??) i can decide. I am tried and nervous tending to anxious. I have had a depression with ocd (obsessions not compulsions). I feel like these tendensis reappears to some extent and that makes me even more afraid.

Know me questions: was I too much reduces in my levo(Euthyrox) from 200 to 150 per day. I have a thyroid destruction due to radioiodine therapy. Does it take some time fore my body to get used to liothyronin. I can not judge if i am hypothyroidism or hyperthyroid. I could wait fore a bloodtest, but my endo wont check my FT3, FT4, Reverse T3 (rT3), FT4 index, T3-reaction/T3-uptake, (TBG) and Thyroglobulin (Tg), so how in the name of God can i deside either hypothyroidism or hyperthyroid. Can you help my out or somebody.

I can accept my physical problems but absolutely not that my psychologicals symptoms are comming back.

I Hope you can recognize these symptoms at startup with liothyronine and guide my on what to do ?????????????

Thank you - thank you thank you !!!

regards Henrik / Denmark

[greygoose]

Your vits D and B12 are low. That will make you feel bad. I Don't suppose your doctor knows anything about vitamins, but can you supplement yourself? Is that a possibility in Denmark?

I think the fact that you felt well on that dose to begin with, and now you Don't feel so good, indicates that you need an increase in dose - preferably T3. That's how it usually works.

[luffe1968 in reply to greygoose]

Hi, Greygoose

My doctor does not know anything about vitamins or minerals. Could you help me out. I am 47 years old and my weighs 129 kg.

right now I take as follow daily:

Selen 100 mg

Vitamin B12;P 400 mg

25-Hydroxy-Vitamin D(D3+D2);P 76 mg

Magnesium 600-900mg

E-vitamin 335 mg

Omega-3 3000 mg

Calcium 400 mg

Q10 100 mg

Multi-B from biosym 4 tablets

longo vital 50plus 3 tablets

rose root 500 mg

bio-c-vitamins 2-3000 mg

Can you commet on that,

Thank you very much,

regards Henrik / Denmark

[greygoose in reply to luffe1968]

That's rather a lot of vit B12, isn't it? What was your level? You can't over-dose on B12, but it's rather silly to spend the money on more than you need.

Vit D3 + D2 is rather pointless, because you can't absorb the D2 very well. How much actual D3 is there in it?

900 mg magnesium is a bit much. Have a read of this :

healthline.com/health/food-...

Can't comment on the Omega 3, Don't know anything about it.

Why are you taking calcium? That's really not a very good thing to take. Especially if you aren't taking any vit K2.

'Multi-B from biosym 4 tablets'

Is that a B complex, or are there other things in there? Why four tablets? That sounds like over-kill. lol Or is that what it says on the bottle?

'longo vital 50plus 3 tablets

rose root 500 mg'

No idea what those are. Or why you would take them.

But, of course, the vital question is : how do you feel? Do you feel all these things are doing you good? Did you get tested for stuff before you started taking them? If so, what were the results? Did you start taking them all at once, or build up gradually? So many things to take into consideration.

[GERALDDAVID]

I take 150mg of levo and 5mg of lio twice a day for the last two years and feel good with that. A good nights sleep is very important.

[luffe1968 in reply to GERALDDAVID]

thank you, do you thing 15mg of lio sounds too much,

regards Henrik /Denmark

[GERALDDAVID in reply to luffe1968]

Also Henrik, wouldn`t it be easier to take twice a day since calcium and iron is a 4 hr wait, must be on empty stomach, no coffee or tea for and hr. I take five in the morning with the levo and 7 1/2 in afternoon during winter when I need more. I split the few extra I get each month for this purpose.

[GERALDDAVID]

Sounds good because you are younger than me. Once you are past 35 you need the complete CO-Q 10. That would be Ubiquinol. I take it because my statin med depletes it.

[greygoose in reply to GERALDDAVID]

Why are you taking statins - if I may ask?

[GERALDDAVID in reply to greygoose]

I had heart bypass 6 1/2 years ago, have to keep my ldl under 70 so the grafts don`t fail. Last blood test was 57. I take just 10mg of atorvastatin. Initially I was on 80mg of simvastatin, started having terrible cramps. Did some research and found this was twice the allowable dose so cut in half before I could see the cardiologist, then asked if I could go on atorvastatin or lipitor the brand name.

Had double bypass, probably one was a vein and one an artery. The sapp vein grafts, half have failed at 10 years and half of the ones that haven`t are going bad. And that`s why I now take 10mg of atorvastatin. Also have a different cardio Dr who is also my GP now.

[greygoose in reply to GERALDDAVID]

Well, I'm not an expert, but I fail to see why your cholesterol level would have anything to do with your grafts failing.

[GERALDDAVID]

It has to do with plac buildup, it is well known now that arterial grafts are more durable. An artery is like a high pressure hose while veins are low pressure. If you don`t keep your cholesterol down you are asking for trouble, this is why one is given much diet information before you leave the hospital.

Just look up heart bypass grafts.