I wonder if anyone can help

Can anyone tell me what the symptoms would be if you are on too high a dose of Levo. I take 100mg 7 days a week and take an extra 25mg on three days per week (Mon, Wed, Fri). I had my last lot of bloods done back in April and although my TSH was suppressed a little my T4 was in the top quadrant of the range so GP was happy to leave me on this dose as long as T4 was in range. For the last couple of weeks I have been having palpatations/shakiness and a bit of vertigo (which I have had on and off for a couple of years since a BPPV attack). I have also had a very stressful year as I lost my brother back in February very suddenly and also a month later my husband had to have open heart surgery so have been under a lot of stress also. I have been to the GP thinking it was anxiety and she tried me on SSRI's which I gave up on as I had awful side-effects from the drug. She also tried me on beta-blockers which controlled the anxiety but made me very dizzy all the time so could not cope with them. This is the point I am at now - could it be anxiety or is it my thyroid going a bit overactive? I just feel so trembly all the time - have resorted to taking Kalms tablets which help calm things down but they do not last very long. I don't know what to do next.

Really desperate for some insight somewhere as cannot carry on like this.

Thank you so much

Hannah

30 Replies

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  • Sounds like adrenal stress to me

    Take at least 200mg vit c plus liquorice root tincture this should gently heal the adrenals

    Your body has taken a real battering from the shock and stress

    Nutiadrenal is another option

    If you are on too much thyroxine when you hold your arms out fwd you will notice a fine tremor in your hands ask someone ekse to check

    If they see it drop back your extra 25mcg dose of thyroxine

  • Sounds like running on adrenalin to me too.... If the adrenals cant make enough cortisone then adrenalin kicks in, leaving you tired, wired and shakey.

    The fine tremor which can be a sign of being overmedicated with thyroid hormones, can be best seen if you place an a4 sheet of paper over your hand. But i really think adrenals are your problem. Suggest you get a thermometer and start tracking your temperatures. You need to do them 4 times a day and plot the days average. ( add the 4 readings together and divide by 4). If there is variation from obe day to the next it shows adrenals are struggling. I wrote a post about it. healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

    G x

  • Thanks reallyfedup. Thats helped me too. I have had these symptoms off and on for ages. No matter what dosage I am on. they are very disturbing but come and go. no hand trembling so its not thyroxine overdose.

  • IMHE with my hypothyroid family members inability to convert the t4 in levo to t3 is a big reason but being chemically hypersensitive means they cant tolerate synthetic meds hence on NDT they are well but on levo or t3 they are very ill

    with results for

    Ferritin

    folate

    b12

    vit d3

    plus TSH

    Free T4

    free T3

    we can work out whats going on

  • I have said SOME people do not gel with synethetic thyroxine for ages. Hence they don't bother to take them and maybe take natural instead. They are worse off if they take them. If they are only borderline or slightly underactive it probably does not matter that much b ut if they are very underactive it does.

  • I don't understand why your doc would have you on extra thyroid a few days a week. It seems it's best to have a steady level. Anyway, the symptoms of high thyroid are bulging eyes, hand tremors, weight loss, and palpitations of the heart. You have been under a lot of stress, and stress can imitate some of that, but if you don't need the extra doses, I would cut them out. It seems a bit odd.

  • My Doc has had me on doses of 75 / 100 alternating days & it seems to be doing the trick - regular 75 per day & too low - 100 per day too high .... Goldilocks - The one in the middle is just right - lol (For now anyway)

  • It doesn't matter, Connie. What matters is the total dose over the week. Some people even take their whole week's dose on one day. It adds up to the same thing because T4 is a storage hormone. It is inactive and just sits around until more T3 is needed, and then it's converted into T3.

    If you're taking T3 you need a steady dose, because it's used up quickly, and what isn't used is excreted, it isn't stored. But having different doses of T4 on different days, isn't odd at all. It's quite usual.

    Bulging eyes are the result of Thyroid Eye Disease. Nothing to do with over-dosing on T4. It's a seperate disease.

  • I don't think its particularly unusual to have different daily doses of levo. I take 175 mcg/ 200 mcg alternate day (I am thyroidless). because of similar symptoms to really fed up plus additional symptoms They were going to increase the dosage but agreed to add 10mcg of T3 instead.

  • Sorry I meant Hannah :)

  • Hi You can be too high an d no symptoms. The only way is a blood test, TSH T4and free T3. You can do them on line through Blue Horizon, quote discount TUK10.

    I have the same symptoms when overdosed to underdosed, this is not uncommon.

    Jackie

  • Thank you so much to all of you. I will buy a thermometer today and start taking my temperature as the Adrenal stress seems to make sense to me what with all of the stress I have suffered this year. I couldn't afford to let myself grieve properly in the early months of my brother's death as I had to keep strong for my husbands heart op which thankfully he has come through and is now almost back to normal. I guess the stress of all of that has manifested itself this way.

    I intend to get my TSH, T4 and T3 tested in the new year to see how I stand with that.

    My GP intended me to take 125mg per day but it was too much for me and so I have got it down to 3 times per week. It may well be, though, that I do not need the 25 at all.

    Thank you Galathea for your link as that was also helpful.

    Now for a few questions:

    How long do I need to take my temp for before I can see a pattern?

    Is there anything that I can take in the meantime, supplement wise, that will help the adrenals and not do any harm if it is not an adrenal problem if you see what I mean? I already take Vit B12, Vit D. I was taking Vit B Complex but stopped as I thought this may be exciting the nervous system.

    I also notice that these symptoms of shakiness and feeling wired and also like something rushing through my legs and body seem to last for about 20 mins - 30 mins before it goes. I then feel ok(ish) for a while before another attack will happen. Kalms seem to help but I don't think they will help the underlying problem. I find that taking magnesium spray seems to settle it for a while also. Does this still sound like the Adrenals?

    Any help is appreciated and I thank you from the bottom of my heart

    Hannah

  • If you do yout temperature daily for just a week you will see if its even or not..... There will be a fair few people telling you that a mercury themometer is best and that degrees f is more accurate than degrees centigrade.... But the whole point is that you are looking to track changes..... So if the thermometer you use is slightly out, it wont matter much so long as you use the same one all the time.

    I used a digital thermometer... I absolutely cannot shake down a mercury one....

    G x

  • Thanks Galathea - I have purchased a digital one too and will start tomorrow morning - i will post and let you know how I fare after a week.

    Hannah

  • Hi Hannah, Kalms contain Acacia, and a lot of people are sensitive to Acacia. Do you know if you are? Apart from that they seem not too bad - but they do contain a lot of... stuff. Not very natural. lol

    If I were you, I think I would go back on the B complex, if you're taking B12. Because all the Bs need to be balanced, as they work together. You might not get the full benefit from the B12 if you just take it on it's own. I doubt the B complex is exciting your nervous system. But the adrenals need all B vitamins.

    If you are taking vit D, it's a good idea to take magnesium. Most of us are deficient in magnesium, anyway. And with those two, it's also a good idea to take a little vit K2 and zinc.

    The adrenals also need lots of vit C - vit c is good for so many, many things. It also helps absorbsion of your Levo. So, take a good dose. And they need salt. Do you know the adrenal cocktail? A glass of orange juice (fresh if possible), 1/2 tsp sea salt and 1/4 tsp cream of tartare. Drunk before bed, that will give the adrenals all they need through the night.

    Take care. :)

  • Hi Greygoose and thanks for your input. I have only just started the Kalms but am not aware that i am allergic to Acacia. These Kalms contain Hops, Valerian Extract and Gentian Extract. I am trying to only take them if necessary.

    I will start up the B Complex again if that would help the Adrenals.

    The cocktail sounds good - the only thing I have to watch with that is the amount of acid in the orange juice as I do suffer from acid reflux and have to take omeprazole for that. The Omeprazole is a necessary evil for me as I have damaged cells in the oesophagus which have to be checked every couple of years so I need to be very vigilant with that. Would Vit C tablets have the same acid-effect as the juice?

    Also where would I get Vit K2 and Zinc from? Do they come as a package?

    Thanks so much

  • Are you sure the acid reflux is not LOW acid - others will reply in how to test.

    Low acid is common problem when hypo.

    Low acid can often be misdiagnosed as high acid.

    Do you take Levo in morning or at bedtime. Taking at bedtime can help.

    Slow release Vit C for adrenals too.

    I also have found adding liquid Vit C with Levo improves uptake.

  • I have always assumed it to be too much acid Slowdragon because of the Barretts that I have and I cannot afford to play around with it so I go with the status quo.

    Vit C slow release sounds a good idea for me though so thanks for that.

  • My doctor has several patients (I am one) who do not do well when their FT4 is high in its range. I do MUCH better when my FT4 is low in its range. However when my FT4 is low in range my TSH is over 4 and I don't feel real well, so I take enough T3 to pull my TSH down to 0.5 and push my FT3 up to mid-range. That does the trick! I am on T3+T4=15+75 mcg.

    Some years back I went thru several cycles of trying to push my T4 dosage up to either 100mcg or 112mcg. It was awful. I felt soo anxious and my brain was racing, I could not function that way. You might compare your average current dose (~110mcg) to the "full replacement value" suggested by Abbott: 1.7mcg/kg body weight. If your 110mcg dose is significantly over the full replacement dose for your weight, that is also a justification to lower your T4 dose.

    I also had adrenal issues, but the standard support things that NDs use (e.g. vitamin C) did not work. I finally found out (not widely known) that the adrenals also need amino acids, so I use a nightly dose of free essential amino acids (9 aminos) to quiet adrenals, esp. because I had celiac and that has caused by Total Blood Protein to ride below range.

  • Hello Hannah

    I am sorry you have been through such a lot.

    I was overmedicated so can tell you my symptoms. The underactive symptoms returned: weight gain, depression and tearfulness, tiredness and in addition I felt driven, was trembly with heart palpitations, fast breathing, feelings of anxiety and a kind of fear of doom, don't know how to explain that better.

    I did not have bulging eyes but very uncomfortable eyes, as if they had not enough room and I had to move them against pressure.

    My theory is that with too much circulating thyroxine the body's output of natural thyroxine is reduced (because of the pituitary feedback) and then some of us do not convert synthetic T4 to T3 well so we end up with over and under active symptoms.

    Just my guess, not a medical opinion.

    Hope that helps or that someone else on here can.

  • Thank you for your kind words thyr01d - i do feel as if I have been thru the mill and I am sure it has all caught up with me now. Our dearly beloved cat also died suddenly the same day as my brother - I cannot believe how it all happened at once. I just need to build myself up again now.

    This is the most confusing bit with this thyroid malarkey - the way that under/over symptoms can be the same. I don't have the uncomfortable eyes as such but have pretty much all of the other symptoms you mentioned which could also be the Adrenals being really stressed out.

    You have all been so helpful and put me on the right road and i appreciate that very much indeed.

  • Ooohhh, what grief, to lose your beloved cat and your brother on the same day. Big hug.

  • Hi, I am sorry to hear about your problems. Firstly I am not a Dr. It could be stress but lets try and rule that out before we go to that route.

    Look at the questions and let me know if you have best part of these symptoms. I am sure you have a few but see if you have a lot of them.

    Are you hot? try taking your temperature a few time in the day to see if it is above 98.4 F.

    Are you going to the loo a lot. ?

    Have you got diarrhoea or are you just getting to the loo in time before you wet your self. Sorry to be graphic.

    Do you have trouble sleeping i.e. you legs wiggling and also your toes, do you need less sleep than you use to?

    Have you lost weight. This is important.

    Do you feel like you have lots of energy and cannot sit down

    do you talk a lot and cannot stop talking. this is important

    Excessive sweats.

    Heart rate at 90 or 100 when resting.That is a really good indication of to much thyroxin

    this is one of the best indications of too much T4 or T3.

    Is there thoughts in your head that are going to fast. do it seem that everybody is going slow. that can be confused with anxiety.

    This is what I suffered when I was hyper or overdosing on T4

    I doubt very much if you are hyper as your DR is saying your TSH is in range and we all know that is what the NHS, use as a guide and if he is saying you need the T4 then you must need it. As the good old NHS don't like having to much T4 in the system so you must need it.

    If it is not many of the above then look at these below.

    I would look at something else are you taking any other meds.?

    Are you taking any other supplements.

    try changing the brand of t4 from your Chemist.

    try taking your T4 in the morning and hour before breakfast with water and nothing else for any hour then take your breakfast.

    Any supplements take in the mid afternoon.

    No Coffee,

    no tea.

    I have found that some of my meds interact with things I have taken or rated for years.

    good luck and keep us posted.

    The other thing it could be adrenal fatigue but that usually works in the opposite way and makes you tired. It sounds like you may be over medicating with something but what is it.

    Best regards

    John c

  • Thank you so much for the very helpful reply Stockman27 - I appreciate it very much.

    I have had a look at the symptoms you describe and I don't have any of those except for having restless nights when I can feel my legs wanting to be on the move. My resting pulse is in the 70's. I do feel hot at times but not excessively so. When I had those trembly attacks my heart and pulse and blood pressure were all high then. Of course, these attacks made me anxious so that would have had a part to play in making everything feel worse.

    To give you more of an insight I have been taking my temperature 3 times per day for the last 3 days and the average is 35.6c. I have never had a reading of over 36.1 - I know it is very early days with this but does that indicate anything - i.e. undermedicated?

    I have also started taking my meds at night instead of in the morning. This has helped a lot at night as I have had very good restful nights and don't get that funny surreal feeling that I used to get taking the Levo in the morning (used to take it at 5.00am and well away from any other meds). I am thinking that I will stay with this regime if all goes well.

    It did get me thinking though of other meds and their connection as I had been using a Bach Flower Remedy containing 5 different plants as a stress- reliever - this was not the normal Bach Rescue Remedy but another one called Healing Herbs. I had been using this for months and then stopped suddenly. This would have been just before these trembly, shaky episodes. Could that have been something to do with it?

    The other question I would like to ask is can you have too much Vit B12. There is 2.5 ug(?) in my Vit B Complex and I also take !000 mcg Subliminal Vit B12 daily - could this be too much?

    I cannot say that I feel tired at all. So, any further thoughts on the Temperature taking so far and The Healing Herb med? Do you think I could be undermedicated?

    Thanks so much

    Hannah

  • Hi Hanna, if you are not getting caught short for the loo and your heart is not pounding, your temperature is low then I doubt very much if you are over medicating.

    May I suggest taking your medication in the morning when you get up and your tummy is empty, with a glass of water nothing else especially not milk. Then if you can wait for an hour before you have breakfast.

    The problem at night your tummy is full and you T4 may not be absorbed well.

    The big problem with this disease is there is very little difference between symptoms for over and under medication.

    Have any of your supplements have calcium, that will cause you thyroxin not be be absorbed in your blood stream.

    We have to get that temperature up. I want you to take your temperature on waking then three hours later and then three hours later still. If its flat, lower than 98.4 you may have adrenal problems. Then I would suggest to see a Dr. Or you could try in the middle of the day, taking 12.5 splitting 25 MCR of T4 in half.

    See how you feel.

    regards John C

    BTW have you got dry skill I mean dry??

  • Hi Stockman

    No I don't have really dry skin as such.

    I will carry on with the temperature taking to see how that goes. I also meant to say that I have not had any of those 'attacks' now for nearly a week.

    I will carry on taking the Levo at night at the moment as I do feel better. I always make sure that it is the last thing at night that I take just before going to bed. I never really eat anything past 6.00pm so the stomach should be fairly empty by then anyway. I have also taken an extra 25 mcg this week as I feel that I may be undermedicated slightly maybe.

    Could the lower temperatures mean that I may be undermedicated ?

    Maybe others who have had low temp could comment on this aspect of it.

  • Hi Hanna, before the TSH blood test was invented, the only way the drs could see if you were taking the correct dose was by taking your heart beat and temperature. A low temp is not good,as your metabolism with a low temp is not working and you will feel sluggish. May I suggest if you have enough medication to split a 25 MCR in half and take that every day and see how you feel. If you get short of breath or rapid heart beat stop the extra dose. You should start to warm up and feel a bit better, If that don't work then it must be your adrenals but you need to see a good dr and that will cost you.

    take care

    John

  • Hi John, I hear what you say and I have started an increase and will go on increasing my Levo as well as taking temperature along the way. Had two readings of 36.0c this morning so far so looking better with the increase . Taking temp every 3 hours

    Thanks for the help

  • Hi,

    T4 is inherently slow in getting in to the body and your body get use to the extra dose and also has to start to convert this drug to the active T3, where as T3 works almost instantly. What I am trying to say, it take it slowly very slowly. Increase a dose and wait 3 days and see how you feel. I use to go mad, then go on to be hyper. Now be careful as when you take too much T4 as your bloods will show this up and your GP will go mad. You may only need another 12.5 MCR that;s half of a 25MCR.

    Danger signs are shortness of breath wheezing, heart thumping and the bathroom Issues I mentioned previously.

    Re the temperature text book should be 37C when you wake and through out the day. But it never is and for thyroid patients its an impossibility. I would aim for .5 C either way and I would be more than happy if my temperature was on waking 36.5 reaching 37 an hour later. My temperature use to hover between 35 and never go about 35.7.. again it all depends how you feel. I will be really frank with you, its a vile condition and the drs that treat us are not really any good and they only worry about a good TSH reading. You have to be aware of your own body and try and help it with out over medicating too much.

    Now to give you confidence and something to look forward to, if all this doesn't work that is not the end. Try buying either 25 Mg of DHEA , just google it on the net, or Pregenenalone not to be confused with Pregnisalone but only 10mg as your a female. i would go for 25 mg of DHEA as a starter no more than that.. That may give you the pick me up that you need. if all fails then try Armour but then you really need to see a private DR and that is when you are going to spend a lot of money.

    take care wishing you a very happy Xmas and a healthy warm and awake Christmas. you will get there in the end but its a long haul.

    don't listen to much to what is said on the site, there is lots of rubbish going around , you just have to decided what is good and to take notice of and what is not. Lots of people on this site advocate sole use of T3 and also steroids such as Prenisalone. but that is dangerous and can cause thinking of the heart muscle and bone problems in later life. The best way is the least medication as possible.

    regards John C

  • Hi John

    Thanks for all the tips - temp seems to be going on the upward trend so that is hopeful.

    Such a shame that the Dr's will not test T3 or T4. My lab will test T4 but only if the TSH is suppressed. My TSH usually is so I get the T4. At the very least you would think they would help us get the full picture. When I have settled on a dose then I will go to BH and have the full profile done to see where I am. Feeling quite good today but early days.

    A merry Xmas to you too and a happy healthy new year - onwards and upwards as they say!

    Hannah

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